Organization is split on Bryzgalov

[aziz]

So what's wrong with the flyers being the ones who prove the young starter? Does he *have* to have been a starter elsewhere?

Bernier is the example. Isn't and hasn't been a starter, but *someone* is likely to put him in that role next season. He is RFA, and behind a guy with a huge contract, he will be going *somewhere*...and there really only a couple teams that will be in the starting goalie market (Calgary, Florida, maybe New Jersey and Toronto, anyone else?)... So why not Philly? How about the flyers be the team, for once, that allows a kid to stretch his wings?

[toughfighter83]

So what's wrong with the flyers being the ones who prove the young starter? Does he *have* to have been a starter elsewhere?

Bernier is the example. Isn't and hasn't been a starter, but *someone* is likely to put him in that role next season. He is RFA, and behind a guy with a huge contract, he will be going *somewhere*...and there really only a couple teams that will be in the starting goalie market (Calgary, Florida, maybe New Jersey and Toronto, anyone else?)... So why not Philly? How about the flyers be the team, for once, that allows a kid to stretch his wings?

that's wishful thinking, it's not going to be easy getting him, he could cost a first round and courts for him because he's still young, i dont want to get rid of assets for a goalie, it's going to set this team back more, especially when the defense has got holes, the fact is this team is a major mess and homer is not going to fix it because he doesnt know what he's doing.

[aziz]

I don't know he will cost that much. He will be a qualified RFA, and there are not many teams in the market for a starting goalie. The market determines the price.

[canoli]

i dont want to get rid of assets for a goalie, it's going to set this team back more,

depend on what assets, obviously, but in general (as I'm sure you know) a decent prospect will cost at least that going the other way. If Bernier is considered a decent prospect (at the very least) we're not going to grab him for a couple 2R picks.

I'd hate trading Couturier because despite his struggles this season he's one of my fav Flyers. If I had my choice I'd dangle B. Schenn and see how much he fetches. I'm just not sold on Schenn's potential the way I am with Couturier - even tho right now it appears Schenn's is higher.

[radoran]

depend on what assets, obviously, but in general (as I'm sure you know) a decent prospect will cost at least that going the other way. If Bernier is considered a decent prospect (at the very least) we're not going to grab him for a couple 2R picks.

Any GM that would give up a promising young netminder for something like a 2nd and two 4s clearly is incompetent and shouldn't be in charge of a NHL organization.

[JackStraw]

Any GM that would give up a promising young netminder for something like a 2nd and two 4s clearly is incompetent and shouldn't be in charge of a NHL organization.

I see what you did there

[aziz]

So long as we're doing rabbit holes on the Bernier thing...I wonder what it would actually take to get him.

To recap the important circumstances effecting his trade value:

Has only played 61 NHL games

Expiring RFA before July 1, qualified RFA after

Quick is a hard block on how valuable Bernier is internally to the Kings

5 or 6 teams, tops, would be in the bidding, and two of those are perennial bottomfeeders (see: will be RFA)

Then factor in what recent goalie trades have netted the trading teams:

Bishop: potential top 6 prospect

Bobrovsky: 2nd and 2 4ths

Lehtonen: depth prospect and a 4th

Bryzgalov: 3rd, depth prospect, futures

Halak: potential top 6 prospect, depth prospect

Can't think of any other notable goalie trades recently. Anyway, with those as models....especially Halak (he was traded at a point where he had 101 NHL games played and a sv% around. 920)...I don't see Bernier costing a 1st and a young roster player. Halak was Lars Eller and Ian Schultz.... that's pretty much Matt Read and Tye McGinn, isn't it?

[aziz]

Still working through this....Bernier will probably be looking for something in the $3mil range, which LA will not want to offer. If they just qualify him and let him get to July 1, he'd be RIPE for an offersheet. Offer him a 3 year, $9mil deal, and there's no way LA matches, then having to hold him for a calendar year. So, in that case, you're out 1 2nd round pick.

All of that being the case, LA really needs to move him before July 1, but then they really are just trading negotiation rights, as the receiving team can't know they will be able to get a contact signed by July 1, and thus be exposed to the same offer sheet risk LA would. And we've seen how discounted negotiating rights prices are.

The more I think about it....Bernier is moving somewhere by the next training camp, and I don't think that somewhere is going to end up paying through the nose for him.

[canoli]

I hope you're right about what it would cost...if you are then the Flyers really should grab him. Bernier is the closest thing we'll get to a "do-over" on the Bob screw-up.

[canoli]

Any GM that would give up a promising young netminder for something like a 2nd and two 4s clearly is incompetent and shouldn't be in charge of a NHL organization.

haha I forgot about the 4ths - oh lord we REALLY blew it with Bob...and it started with Coach Laviolette. We can blame Ed and Homer all we want but the first guy who ruined Bob in Philly was Lavy.

[mojo1917]

@aziz

there are factions among us... @AndyS i believe who have been hitting the bernier offer sheet idea hard. i don't even think in this case it is too ethically yucky.

if he's the real deal 3 million for 3 years would be very reasonable and keeps him in the fold when the forwards will truly be hell on wheels. could work out nicely if only ...

also thanks for the Biron refresher, I remembered seeing him play for Americans in the A for what seemed like 5 years and everynight he stoned the Bears and some of those teams were the Bruce Boudreau go-go teams. he was a stud in the A , i forgot he was in the bigs for a whole year.

[mojo1917]

@canoli

he (lavy) ought to be shot for fing that up....

[radoran]

@aziz

there are factions among us... @AndyS i believe who have been hitting the bernier offer sheet idea hard. i don't even think in this case it is too ethically yucky.

if he's the real deal 3 million for 3 years would be very reasonable and keeps him in the fold when the forwards will truly be hell on wheels. could work out nicely if only ...

"ethically yucky" deal? From an organization that did the Weber offer sheet?

This organization doesn't give the hind quarters of a rodent if it is "ethically yucky" but "legal."

I suggested an offer sheet to Bernier as an alternative to a trade a while back. I can't see L.A. matching a deal like that and locking themselves in to Quick/Bernier for $8.8M against a $64.3M cap.

The only concern is the "relationship" between LA and Philly. I could see a deal in which Homer sends some/a pick(s) to LA to get the RFA rights for Bernier - if they pull the plug on Bryz.

After next year both Halak and Elliott in STL are also RFA...

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

Isn't St. Louis' problem their goaltending?

[mojo1917]

"ethically yucky" deal? From an organization that did the Weber offer sheet?

well, that's a technical term...

so it was you that i was recalling man, aging sucks...I'll bet Andy S is on this bandwagon as well though. I do think there would be picks or something sent to LA as a courtesy, shero wouldn't do that, he'd pry a prospect from the Kings too, but you know homer's a gentleman and all.

[radoran]

@radoran

Isn't St. Louis' problem their goaltending?

wasn't last year, was it? Goalies have off games, and off years. As do players. But I believe I'm being sold Halak as a top-flight goaltender who was traded for in one thread and now Halak as "a problem" in this one

Elliott has obviously fallen off a cliff, too.

Unfortunately, I think the Flyers may have dealt away one of the more promising young goalies.

Now we're left hoping the same people who have screwed this up so badly will magically fix it.

Yes, I'm harping on that

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

I can't honestly say i've seen much of the Blues this year. I'm just going on what I've read and heard.

[radoran]

@flyercanuck

yeah, me, neither.

2nd in the Central, 6th in the West,

Better than some.

[BearOnIce]

Yeah, I think there is a pretty good chance we have our goalie tandem for next year. I dont think Bryz will get bought out for a few reasons....

- Bryz hasnt been great, but the team has been pretty terrible around him. With a better team in front of him (primarily the D) I think his numbers would be markedly better.

- Bryz does have talent and has potential to be a very solid goalie. I think if he realizes his potential he could be a top 10 goalie in the league, and I dont think management is ready to give up on him yet after only one and a half seasons.

- Snider and Comcast have tons of money but even they dont want to eat the rest of that contract (35 mil left to be paid or something like that??!!). That's a lot of crow to eat. I think management would still like to see if they can get there money's worth out of this guy.

Well said. Flyer fans obviously look at it differently than Flyer ownership/management. Bottom Line: That is a lot of money and crow to eat. They will re-tool the D, give Bryz a break from playing every game by using Mason, and have next year to evaluate. They still have next year to pull the trigger on Bryz amnesty. And next year is another year they don't have to pay amnesty. And they get to look at Mason and see if he could step in. Or at worst, begin to see if they need to go after a true #1. Chance favors the prepared mind. The Fylers have the bases covered. When all is said and done, this is a simple financial decision.

Briere will be bought out via amnesty as they need his salary. He will be thanked for his service as a loyal Flyer.

[murraycraven]

Wow... a lot of Bryz teabagging going here. Bryz is not a goaltender that is worth what he is being paid! It is that simple... amnesty him and bring in someone else at a fraction of the cost and I guarantee they have better stats.

The Bryz faithful fail to recognize the business side of this... he is grossly overpaid and simply average at best.

I am pulling a flyercanuck here - please tell us all what Bryz does well to warrant his paycheck?

[Lindbergh31]

It's too bad that Snider's memory is going because he would realize that when Clarke and the boys won their championships it started with goaltending which was Bernie. They built those teams through the draft. Then in the middle eighties the Flyers were a young, up and coming team that had a goaltender who they let grow into the position and he led them to the finals. But unfortunately the 2010 run to the finals gave Snider and Holmgren a false sense of thinking the Flyers were close to being a serious contender which they weren't. Next they trade away what was suppose to be 2 cornerstone players in Richards and Carter for younger players and expected to stay being contenders which didn't happen, Flyers fans know that the Devils are going to be looking for a successor to Brodeur either next season or the season after that and Bernier might be their pick. I don't know about anybody else but I couldn't handle seeing the Devils and Bernier stick it to the Flyers for the next 10 years. If Bernier is good as some people think then Holmgren has to work out a deal with the Kings this coming summer since there seems to be a good trading history between the two teams. It's time for this organization to build through the draft and if Snider doesn't live long enough to see another championship then so be it.

[trevluk]

Briere will be bought out via amnesty as they need his salary. He will be thanked for his service as a loyal Flyer

Agreed, Danny had some good years for us and for that we are grateful but the time has come to part ways. I will say that Danny made me eat my words because when we acquired him, I was pushing hard for Drury instead but boy was I wrong with that call. In my defense, I lived in Colorado for a number of years and watched Drury through his prime and as one of the cornerstones to the Avs championships and thought he could bring that play to the Flyers but he didnt have much left in the tank at that point and kind of fizzled out with the Rangers and eventually retired.

[Bakanekimiwa]

THIS IS THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

ummm... have you seen Colorado!? just sayin...

[trevluk]

Wow... a lot of Bryz teabagging going here. Bryz is not a goaltender that is worth what he is being paid! It is that simple... amnesty him and bring in someone else at a fraction of the cost and I guarantee they have better stats.

The Bryz faithful fail to recognize the business side of this... he is grossly overpaid and simply average at best.

I am pulling a flyercanuck here - please tell us all what Bryz does well to warrant his paycheck?

Listen, I am not a huge Bryz fan nor am I a Bryz hater, but I dont think Bryz is the biggest problem this team has right now and I just think it makes sense to keep him for one more year. I think if we amnesty Briere instead of Bryzgolov (we have plenty of forwards, most of which actually try to compete during the regular season) we open up some cap space and through the draft and trades hopefully our D is a little more solid next year. Then we will have an adequate chance to look at both Bryz and Mason and see if either of them has place on this team in 14/15.

Also, you say that Bryz is grossly over paid, and for his overall performance you may be right, but I think his cap hit is 5.6 mil which isnt terrible if he can get his game back and turn things around. We got Mason for 1.5 because he hasnt been very good the past 2 years (with a terrible team) and nobody else was interested in him. However, a solid number one goalie (not an all-star but a solid one) is still going to run you what, about 3.5 - 4.0 mil? So the difference between that salary and Bryz is about 1.5 - 2.0 mil. Even with with the cap going down to 64 mil next year, I dont think that extra 1.5 - 2.0 mil is going to prevent the team from getting the other players they need to make the overall team better.

[LegionOfDoom]

I think Briere has better ROI than Bryz. Therefore if we buyout Bryz and get Bernier we would be in a better position in the playoffs.

I would rather though also trade Briere to a contender for a D prospect or high pick(s), hoping to get him back the following year on a new contract, so he retires a Flyer with a very reasonble low cap hit (We could talk to the other team that part of the agreement for them to have a scoring playoff performer to help them win the "Cup" would be that Briere would get bought out by that team at the end of the year. so that he will be an UFA and that's how we get him back at a super discount rate; that might cost us prospect or picks for that agreement, but Briere is a proven Playoff performer).

This way: (1) we lose both high salaries, (2) get to keep a Playoff performer were he also wants to stay.(3) have picks/prospects and cash to give to LA for Bernier, (3) Be under the cap. (4) have Cash On Hand to pay G and the rest of our troopers for there expireing contracts, and (5) keep our youth.

If we end up tanked at the end of this season, that would net us a high pick in the draft.

This is a plan a GM can craft and get out of the foxhole he put himself in, whether or not it was his fault or not.

Remember, we could of started this year with Parise, Sutter and/or Webber had Holmgram gotten his men.