Hockey Hall of Fame's Class of 2013......

[OccamsRazor]

Here it is enjoy...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=427249

YOUR! CALL: WHICH PLAYERS WOULD YOU SEND TO THE HHOF?

The Hockey Hall of Fame's class of 2013 will immediately set off a fresh batch of debate when it is unveiled on Tuesday.

The merits of those chosen to join hockey's all-time elite against those that were left to wait another year is an annual pastime that only gets renewed with each new class of honourees.

So our question to you: Which four players and one builder would you choose for induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame?

There are undoubtedly a number of players in their first year of eligibility that will eventually get the call to the Hall, but only one is an absolute no-doubter: four-time Stanley Cup winner and two-time Olympic champion Scott Niedermayer. The former Devil and Duck did nothing but win throughout his entire hockey career, with pages worth of hardware to pad his resume.

There are a number of near-locks, but the class of 2012 may have taught us that there's almost always a chance of omission.

Brendan Shanahan - who won three Stanley Cups and scored more than 600 goals and 1,300 points over his 21-year career - was believed to be an automatic Class of 2012 choice, but was passed over in favour of first-year choices Mats Sundin and Joe Sakic and greats-in-waiting Pavel Bure and Adam Oates.

A pair of first-year eligible defenders also come with hefty resumes that could likely find them in the Hall come Tuesday: Chris Chelios and Rob Blake.

A three-time Stanley Cup champion and Norris Trophy winner, Chelios was a dominant force in his prime and a model of longevity that certainly warrants eventual Hall status. Blake, too, had a lengthy career of 20 seasons, winning one Stanley Cup, a Norris Trophy, several All-Star selections and an Olympic gold medal.

From there, the debate opens up.

There are perennial All-Stars a-plenty amongst just the first year-eligible players.

Rod Brind'Amour won a Cup and a pair of Frank J. Selke Trophies and is a member of the 1,000 point club.

Paul Kariya was once amongst the NHL's most gifted offensive players, but his career was derailed by concussions. He was still a point-per-game player, finishing with 989 on his career and won a pair of Olympic medals for Canada: silver in 1994 and gold in 2002.

Markus Naslund will undoubtedly draw support from Vancouver fans. While his point totals don't stack up to the volume of Brond'Amour's or the pace of Kariya's, he was still a dominant player in a low-scoring era in the League's history.

From there, the waiting list still includes many potentially Hall-worthy names that come into 2013 having already been passed over.

There are 17 other players eligible for induction this year that have eclipsed the 1,000-point plateau beyond those already listed here.

That list includes a 600-goal scorer in Dave Andreychuk, Olympic- and Cup-champion Theoren Fleury, and another first-time eligible forward in Keith Tkachuk.

Phil Housley remains on the outside looking in, despite outscoring all but three defencemen in NHL history.

Beyond those names there are some polarizing figures that grabbed headlines regularly throughout their NHL careers.

Eric Lindros played 14 injury-plagued seasons with the Philadelphia Flyers, New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs and Dallas Stars and dominated the NHL through his early career. He would net 865 career points in only 760 career games and despite never winning a Cup, played in three Olympics - winning silver in 1992 and gold in 2002 to accompany a 1991 Canada Cup title and the 1994-95 Hart and Lester B. Pearson Trophies.

Jeremy Roenick was one of the most colourful players of his generation and - despite also retiring Cup-less - scored 513 goals and 1,216 points in 1,363 NHL games. He was a nine-time All-Star and two-time Olympian, winning silver in 2002.

Speaking of international achievement a pair of Russian trailblazers remain on the waiting list in Soviet-era dynamo Sergei Makarov and one of the NHL's first Russian defectors Alexander Mogilny – who is also a member of the 1,000 point club.

In the Builders' Category, the late Pat Burns and Fred Shero remain strong candidates for induction.

Burns is the only man to have won a Jack Adams Award with three different teams and led the New Jeresy Devils to a Stanley Cup. Shero, meanwhile, led the Broad Street Bullies of the 1970s to their only two Stanley Cup victories in addition to a regular season career winning percentage of .612.

And the list from there – in both the players' and builders' categories - goes on and on and on.

So which four players and one builder would you choose for induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame?

What say you who gets your vote!!!!!!!

I say BIG E is in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited July 9, 2013 by hf101
Added Poll

[ruxpin]

First, these things are entirely too subjective. Not just hockey, although I think sometimes baseball is so stats-driven that it becomes a little easier (although now the debate about steroids kind of clouds that)

First, I personally would not vote for Lindros. You could make an argument about his dominating the game for a couple years and his PPG mark. But I just think over the course of his career he was too injured, a non-entity for the last several years of his career, and ultimately didn't win anything. Any of those criteria by themselves wouldn't negate him for me (For example, I would have voted for Marcel Dionne but he didn't win a damn thing). I won't be upset if he gets in or anything, but I'm just saying he wouldn't get MY vote if someone were dumb enough to hand me a ballot.

Of the list above, I guess I would vote for (in no order):

Neidermyer

Shanahan (I would have put him in last year)

Brindamour or Blake (if only one, I vote for Brindamour--senitmental)

Chelios

I do think it would be a hoot if both Chelios and Lindros got in in the same class.

Builders: Fred Shero over Pat Burns solely for sentimental reasons if nothing else.

[Polaris922]

I think Lindros (yuk!) deserves to be in, just don't know if it'll be in this class. Some pretty big names there!

[ZeZel25]

First, these things are entirely too subjective. Not just hockey, although I think sometimes baseball is so stats-driven that it becomes a little easier (although now the debate about steroids kind of clouds that)

First, I personally would not vote for Lindros. You could make an argument about his dominating the game for a couple years and his PPG mark. But I just think over the course of his career he was too injured, a non-entity for the last several years of his career, and ultimately didn't win anything. Any of those criteria by themselves wouldn't negate him for me (For example, I would have voted for Marcel Dionne but he didn't win a damn thing). I won't be upset if he gets in or anything, but I'm just saying he wouldn't get MY vote if someone were dumb enough to hand me a ballot.

Of the list above, I guess I would vote for (in no order):

Neidermyer

Shanahan (I would have put him in last year)

Brindamour or Blake (if only one, I vote for Brindamour--senitmental)

Chelios

I do think it would be a hoot if both Chelios and Lindros got in in the same class.

Builders: Fred Shero over Pat Burns solely for sentimental reasons if nothing else.

I put E in there. He actually played more games than Cam Neely who's in. Neely never won a cup I believe

Edited July 8, 2013 by twpguy

[yave1964]

Starts with Shanny. His body of work makes him a no brainer.

Niedermayer is a lock.

So is Cheli.

J.R. deserves strong consideration

Shero absolutely should be in as a member of the builder category.

IMHO Nobody in the rest of the class deserves the honor now or ever.

Lindros and Kariya had injury shortened careers. Of the two Kariya would easily be the better candidates but again he falls short.

Blake and Brindamour should be considered and really rank ahead of the rest of the misses.

So IMHO it is

Shanny

Niedermayer

Cheli

Maybe J.R.

--------------------------

Blake

Brindamour both deserve consideration

-------------------------------

Kariya

Lindros

Careers cut short by injuries. too short, ignoring personalities even.

Everyone else a distant also ran unworthy of the hall.

That is not an insult to Theo or Naslund or Mogilny, they were all damn good players, some years they were great, but the Hall of Fame is for the GREATEST OF THE GREAT. Only Shanny, Cheli and Niedermayer from this group fit the bill.

Shero quite frankly has gotten a bad wrap and should have been in a decade ago. He went to Russia at the height of the cold war to study their philosophy and incorporated it into the North American game. He won the first two cups for non original six teams. He led the Rangers to a cup final in 1979. His drawbacks were his drinking the bully controversy, and the thousands of words written describing him as a flake. Even his nickname played against him. But the body of work is too strong and he deserves to be in.

[ruxpin]

I put E in there. He actually played more games than Cam Neely who's in. Neely never won a cup I believe

See, that's the thing. I think Lindros goes in because Neely is in. On the other hand, I really didn't think Neely should go in. For mostly similar reasons to what I posted about Lindros. Also because I thought he'd end up being used as a measuring stick for others whom I didn't think deserved it.

[blocker]

I would vote for Phil Housley way ahead of Roenick. Brind'amour is a good guy, but he's just not good enough to be in the HOF. I know Pat burns is a kinda sentimental choice, but IMHO, there are a thousand guys ahead of him.

Funny thing, today I was sorting out some of my old stuff. One of the things I came across was a package of Fred Shero drills. The illustrations were crudely drawn stick figures, but the advice and instructions were easy to understand, shrewd and very sensible.

I think there are few coaches who communicated a sound strategy better than him. Scotty Bowman is probably the number one NHL coach ever. That's because he knew how to evaluate, obtain and use the best talent. But, if I had to pick a coach to get the best out of an existing roster, I'd choose Shero.

[yave1964]

I would vote for Phil Housley way ahead of Roenick. Brind'amour is a good guy, but he's just not good enough to be in the HOF. I know Pat burns is a kinda sentimental choice, but IMHO, there are a thousand guys ahead of him.

Funny thing, today I was sorting out some of my old stuff. One of the things I came across was a package of Fred Shero drills. The illustrations were crudely drawn stick figures, but the advice and instructions were easy to understand, shrewd and very sensible.

I think there are few coaches who communicated a sound strategy better than him. Scotty Bowman is probably the number one NHL coach ever. That's because he knew how to evaluate, obtain and use the best talent. But, if I had to pick a coach to get the best out of an existing roster, I'd choose Shero.

Housley is a tough case.

He is in the top ten in just about every scoring category for defensemen which would point towards hall of fame all day long, he appeared in seven all star games, had 1,232 career points, all things that cream hall of famer. An inherent bias against United States born players may even to some extent be keeping him out.

NOW THE CASE AGAINST

Housley for his career made the post season all star selections only once, 1992-93 he was second team

His plus/minus for his career was a paltry MINUS 53.

He never won a cup. He never came close. In 1998 his Capitals were swept in the finals by the Wings, in 18 post season games Housley had zero goals and was a -2

For his career in the post season he played 85 games with only 13 goals and was a minus 19

At no point in his career was he ever considered the best or the second best defenseman in the game.

His points were amazing, he had a wonderful first pass and a wicked slapper on the power play but the fact that his points were scored during the high flying eighties and early nineties must be taken in to consideration

His transactions for his career, he was once traded as part of a package for Dale Hawerchuk, a super player, and also as part of a package for the Great Al Macinness and that must be considered. But also you must consider the fact that he was also traded at various times for nobodies like Nelson Emerson and Cale Hulse, and in fact was released and claimed in waivers twice as well, not just at the end of his career but when he still had six seasons to go.

Overall, I think a lot of his scoring came from the era he played in, I think he was one hell of a player for about the first half of his career and then skated by on reputation and because he could still run a second team power play for another ten years.

He was a hell of a player but I just cant see him in the hall.

[hf101]

I updated this thread with a poll. I thought it would be interesting to see who gets voted in for real vs the choices by our members.

[flyerrod]

I vote for Brindamour and Roenick partially because they were Flyers but just as much for how they played the game. My other 2 votes go to Tom Barasso and Guy Carbonneau for the same reasons. There are ALOT of guys on this list who deserve to be in (IE Chelios, Shanahan, Andreychuk, Neidermeyer, even Lindros too) but I don't see them being in this class.

[yave1964]

Theo received two votes so far.

I bought his book playing with fire when it first came out, I understand the horrors he endured from Graham James and from his own alcoholic negligent family, but sadly a lot of kids have went through this and more and came out whole on the other side and not let it destroy them. He came through as an alcoholic and massive drug addict who pissed hi talent away.

So when the movie first hit the shelves I ordered I from Netflix to see if I change my mind about him, instead it reinforced it. None of his old teammates want anything to do with him, he is banned from Arena's in Chicago and from Madison Square Garden in New York. At old timers games you could see players literally walk and skate as far away from him as possible while casting a weary eye. Sad and pathetic really.

He had all the talent in the world and was capable of being one of the greatest ever even though he was only a five foot six annoying little super pest. He let his demons eat him alive, they swallowed his talent and his humanity. I will not for one instant presume to understand the horrors this man had to endure and the penalties facing Graham James should start with a tree stump, and a hammer and nail and a rusty razor blade.

Many people suffer from this type of abuse as teenagers, men and women and manage to turn into upright citizens, and good parents and excel in the workplace without allowing it to destroy them from the inside. Theo had literally millions piled upon millions of dollars and adulation from millions of adoring fans and that was not enough. The tragedy of Theo Fleury is Theo Fleury. If he is a Hall of Famer than I am a Danish Bagel.

Edited July 9, 2013 by yave1964

[DaGreatGazoo]

I think Lindros gets in...but not this year. And as I've said before...no one should go in before they put Fred Shero in.

It's a freaking joke he isn't in there....many fans bring up Pat Burns, and with all due respects, Shero's resume is more Hall-worthy than Burns.

[mojo1917]

@blocker

well stated. your whole post. +1

[jammer2]

I went Scott Neidermeyer, Chelois and Shanny as the no brainers. The last choice was tough, think the other 3 are heads and tails above the rest of the field. My last choice was Anderchuck....he has 600+ goals on his resume, stood the test of time and eventually won the cup with Tampa Bay, making him close to a lock.

[ruxpin]

I went Scott Neidermeyer, Chelois and Shanny as the no brainers. The last choice was tough, think the other 3 are heads and tails above the rest of the field. My last choice was Anderchuck....he has 600+ goals on his resume, stood the test of time and eventually won the cup with Tampa Bay, making him close to a lock.

Agreed. The first three were easy. The fourth was hard. I went with sentiment on my fourth rather than sense.

[dilbert719]

OK, I know we just got done with this year's inductions, but it's never too early to jump the gun!

Next year, Hasek, Modano, Recchi, and Forsberg all become eligible. Will the four of them continue to crowd out the people who didn't make it this year (alternately, will we have another small class) or do Recchi/Forsberg wait, and might some of the people who didn't make it this year get in?

[yave1964]

OK, I know we just got done with this year's inductions, but it's never too early to jump the gun!

Next year, Hasek, Modano, Recchi, and Forsberg all become eligible. Will the four of them continue to crowd out the people who didn't make it this year (alternately, will we have another small class) or do Recchi/Forsberg wait, and might some of the people who didn't make it this year get in?

Forsberg and Lindros on the ballot together. Let the debate begin

[dilbert719]

Forsberg and Lindros on the ballot together. Let the debate begin

It would be fitting if they both went in together, but the odds of that happening next year are slim, slim, slim. Hasek and Modano are absolute 1st ballot guys for me, so we then move to the second tier. Recchi, Forsberg, Lindros, Blake, Andreychuk, and Roenick are probably that next set, with Tkachuk, Mogilny, Brind'Amour, Kariya, Weight, Rafalski, and Nolan in the third tier of "If someone has a particular liking for them" candidates.

It'll also be interesting to see if Chris Osgood's resume can overcome the sense that Manon Rheaume would have won multiple Cups playing behind that Red Wings team.

[jammer2]

@dilbert719

If I had to rate them, I'd go...

1)Hasek

2)Forsberg

3)Recchi

4)Modano

5)Anderchuck

6)Lindros

7)Mogilny

8)Roenick

9)Brindy

10)Rafalski

11)Kariya

12)Nolan

13)Tkchunk

Recchi has 3 cup wins to Modano's 1, Andrechuck's 641 goals always seem to get overlooked, but that is an impressive total.

[hf101]

@dilbert719

Hasek and Forsberg are inducted on the first year of eligibility.

[Nick]

I agree with the majority when I say Niedermayer, Shanahan and Chelios are no-brainers and locks to get in. The fourth choice is a tossup but I think Andreychuk has the edge with Roenick not far behind. With a Stanley Cup ring, over 1,600 games played and a membership to the 600-goal club, he's going to be hard to pass up.

[OccamsRazor]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1700055-hockey-hall-of-fame-2013-inductees-why-eric-lindros-is-this-years-biggest-snub

Hockey Hall of Fame 2013 Inductees: Why Eric Lindros Is This Year's Biggest Snub

This isn’t an article about why Scott Niedermayer, Brendan Shanahan and Chris Chelios were undeserving inductees for the Hockey Hall of Fame class of 2013.

But it is one about why the selection committee swung and missed again on a player that should’ve been a first-ballot Hall of Fame inductee, and that former superstar’s name is Eric Lindros.

During his prime, Lindros was undeniably among the top five players in the world for a period of at least five years, which itself should be enough to get the London, Ontario native enough votes to gain entry into hockey’s most exclusive club.

Unfortunately, the prospect once referred to as “The Next One” never captured the number of Stanley Cups, scoring titles or individual awards he seemed destined for when he entered the NHL in 1992 as the most highly-touted prospect since Mario Lemieux.

In fairness to Lindros, he earned some of the vitriol himself by refusing to play for the OHL’s Sault St. Marie Greyhounds and the NHL’s Quebec Nordiques immediately after being selected No. 1 overall by each team in their respective league drafts. At first, few outside of Quebec City had any issues with the young prodigy’s choices, as Lindros continued to dominate at every level of play.

In fact, after Lindros informed Quebec that he would not be reporting to the team following the 1991 NHL Draft, the wunderkind played his way onto Team Canada’s roster for the 1991 Canada Cup, becoming the first non-professional player to do so.

There, as an 18-year-old, Lindros didn't look out of place alongside Gretzky, Lemieux and Canada's impressive collection of superstars, and the controversial big man tallied five points en route to the Canada Cup crown.

Once Lindros made his NHL debut, the 6’4” force didn’t just meet expectations early on, he exceeded them. As a 19-year-old rookie, Lindros tallied 41 goals and 75 points in just 61 games, seemingly ensuring that the Flyers had made the right decision in signing the playmaking pivot to the then-richest deal in NHL history.

He followed that up with a 97-point season.

He enjoyed arguably his greatest year as a pro during the lockout-shortened 1994-95 campaign, as Lindros edged out Penguins star Jaromir Jagr for the 1995 Hart Trophy as the league’s most valuable player.

Despite all of these accomplishments, the argument that could make Lindros’ case most convincing is the impact his presence had on those around him.

Take John LeClair for example. When the former Montreal Canadiens winger was dealt to the Flyers early during the 1994-95 season, the big man immediately blossomed into a star, becoming the first American winger to register three consecutive 50-goal seasons. And he did it all while playing with Lindros.

The same can be said for Swedish journeyman Mikael Renberg, who combined with Lindros and LeClair to form “The Legion of Doom,” which was undoubtedly the most feared offensive unit in the league for a time.

No, it didn’t last forever, as Lindros’ repeated concussions and related injuries (such as an incident involving a collapsed lung), took a toll on the superstar center.

Lindros soldiered on and managed to post better than a point-per-game numbers during each of his first nine NHL seasons, including seven 30-goal performances during that span.

But beyond the numbers, Lindros' style of play and vision made him one of the hardest players to stop on a nightly basis, which is something the selection committee seemed to appreciate upon granting Pavel Bure admission to the Hall.

Like Lindros, Bure's magnificent career was short. The two have remarkably similar career totals—Lindros finished with 865 points in 760 games, Bure with 779 in 702.

Both Bure and Lindros rank among the top 25 all-time in terms of points per game, with Lindros sitting at No. 19, six spots ahead of Bure. And what makes Lindros' lack of recognition even more puzzling is that of the 18 players ahead of him on the list, former Calgary Flame star Kent Nilsson is the only eligible player not currently in the Hall of Fame.

In terms of accolades, Lindros has to be deserving of Hall of Fame consideration, as he’s received more honors and individual awards than Cam Neely, Clark Gillies or Doug Gilmour could ever dream of, but whether he sustained the greatness long enough remains a question.

What he did do, though, was help Canada to an Olympic title in 2002, a silver in 1992 and earn eight All-Star selections along the way.

More importantly, Lindros changed the way the game of hockey is played, as he was the first big man to combine the playmaking skills of a smaller player with the physical strength and grit of a bruiser.

Eventually, Lindros will almost certainly get in, but it may be that he has to wait for the right year, just like Adam Oates, Glenn Anderson and many others did before him.

HHHHHHHhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

[jammer2]

I believe the stats don't stand alone, unfair or not, the not reporting to the Nords and the Bonnie and Clyde mess still reflect negatively on Eric to this day. I don't believe he should be denied entry on those things, but it's the whole part and parcel that gets looked at, and Eric's inability to cut the apron strings and stand on his own two feet will hurt him a bit, just my opinion. He will get in, but it will take a down year, where there is not a handful of sure fire first entery types.

[yave1964]

Next year

Hasek

Modano

Forsberg

Recchi or someone else or even nobody else.

Lots of damn good near greats like Housley, Andrechuk Kariya and Lindros, I wouldn't have a problem with any of them getting enshrined but I doubt any of them will any time soon.

[ruxpin]

Next year: Hasek, Forsberg definite. Modano or Recchi (or both).

Sorry Eric, you still don't deserve to be there.