All Time: Top 5 Goaltenders ever

[JR Ewing]

Gretzky has said that about 5 different goalies. A few years back he told people Forsberg was the greatest forward he ever saw. A year later he answered Messier to the same question. A year after that, Lemieux.

He is often boldly making those statements. So many it is hard to keep track of. Fuhr was definitely a good money goalie, but Billy Smith was a better money goalie.

Gretzky's a man of superlatives, even down to the compliments he gives. He once said that Ales Hemsky has the some of the best stick skills he's ever seen (granted, they ARE terrific) and was mystified as to why he isn't one of the top few players in the league.

JR

[Haliax]

5. Terry Sawchuk - He suffered a dislocated elbow playing rugby and hid it from his parents (who knows went on in THAT household?). The lack of medical attention cause his right arm to be half a foot shorter than his left, was extremely crooked, and caused him considerable pain for the rest of his life. In fear of losing his job, he kept injuries to himself, and suffered quietly through many elbow problems, appendicitis, a collapsed lung, severe hand problems, broken foot, and too many cuts to count. His playing style of an extremely low crouch left him with a permanently bent back and ruptured discs, which meant that he couldn't sleep longer than 2 or 3 hours at a time.

Wow. I did not know any of that. That is some crazy stuff.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Oooooh, all-time lists.

1. Patrick Roy - Probably the best combination of peak and career you'll see, though he wasn't the best in either category. The best playoff goaltender ever? One half of what is most likely everybody's favorite goalie fight of all time.

2. Dominik Hasek - The best peak value of anybody that ever put on the pads. Was robbed of career value by global politics and had to overcome bias early on in his NHL career.

3. Glenn Hall - Odd duck. Never bothered showing up on time for training camp, threw up before every game and then chased it with a glass of orange juice. Did everything he could to skip practice. Didn't miss a start for 7 seasons, starting 502 consecutive games. Lost in the shuffle of his reputation of him being a bad playoff goalie is his 1968 Conn Smythe.

4. Jacques Plante - Probably as defensively aware a goalie as ever lived; a pioneer of things like cutting off dump-ins, passing the puck to teammates, raising his arms to indicate icing, and we all know about the mask. Teammates used to make fun of him for knitting his own touques, but he did because he grew up poor and couldn't afford to buy them.

5. Terry Sawchuk - The guy who comes closest to Hasek in terms of peak value. He was distant, angry, miserable with teammates and fans alike, kept to himself, and suffered from what we would now call depression or anxiety. Lived a life of pain, physically and emotionally. He suffered a dislocated elbow playing rugby and hid it from his parents (who knows went on in THAT household?). The lack of medical attention cause his right arm to be half a foot shorter than his left, was extremely crooked, and caused him considerable pain for the rest of his life. In fear of losing his job, he kept injuries to himself, and suffered quietly through many elbow problems, appendicitis, a collapsed lung, severe hand problems, broken foot, and too many cuts to count. His playing style of an extremely low crouch left him with a permanently bent back and ruptured discs, which meant that he couldn't sleep longer than 2 or 3 hours at a time.

This was all a bit much for Sawchuk to take, and he began to drink heavily. His life off the ice was generally a total uproar. Alcoholism and spousal abuse was the name of the game in the Sawchuk household. He had numerous affairs, and eventually impregnated a woman outside of his marriage, before finally being divorced by his wife.

Sawchuk died after a drunken scuffle with teammate Ron Stewart, arguing over the phone bill they shared. Sawchuk fell, suffering damage to his liver, and died in hospital after having his gallbladder removed, as well as unsuccessful attempts to stop the bleeding from his liver.

JR

Meh. that Smythe was basically a Pity trophy after Montreal swept them in 4 because he was the only player on that team.

Hall apparently crapped the bed many times with that strong Hawks team. In fact, I think he was traded to the Hawks because jack Adams was furious with his weak goals in the playoffs.

[goalnut3133]

@Polaris922 Ok that's it, 'cuff 'em!

[JR Ewing]

@JR Ewing

I honestly never asked him. Next time I see him maybe I'll ask if I can figure a good way of doing it. On second thought...

LOL

I can just imagine that conversation.

"Hey man, remember how your Dad got into that scuffle with Sawchuk, and then Sawchuk died a few days later? Did that bother him?"

LOL

JR

[flyercanuck]

@JR Ewing

Exactly. Think I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

[yave1964]

Top five all time goalies. Great topic.

IMHO

1. Marty. Numbers don't lie.

2. Roy. As a Wings fan God I hated the pasty skinned Tourette neck punk, but God was he amazing for a long, long time.

3. Sawchuk. Haunted by inner demons and still was one of the most magnificent goalies of all time.

4. Dryden. Cmon, six Stanley Cups in eight year career. One of the greatest teams ever tends to have people bump him down the list but when he quit playing the Hab's quit winning.

5. Hasek. Two cups, on the right team would have had a ton more.

[JR Ewing]

@JR Ewing Welcome to the board, I honestly did not know that Sawchuck story, it somehow escaped me all these years! Nice to see you lean towards some of the older goalies, they get left out on a lot of these lists due to the greatness of the guys we saw compete for their whole careers.

Thanks for the welcome.

I've always tried to not lean towards any particular era when it comes to these kinds of discussions. And yeah, Sawchuk was generally a pretty miserable guy. Not THE happiest story in the history of hockey, but hey, the players are human beings, right? That part is forgotten quite a bit.

JR

[J0e Th0rnton]

Thanks for the welcome.

I've always tried to not lean towards any particular era when it comes to these kinds of discussions. And yeah, Sawchuk was generally a pretty miserable guy. Not THE happiest story in the history of hockey, but hey, the players are human beings, right? That part is forgotten quite a bit.

JR

So glad to see you dude

I knew you would jump headfirst into a topic like this one We used to have some great ones.

[Polaris922]

@jammer2

@flyercanuck

Thats why I always ask for others' opinions on Fuhr. I like the guy, thought he was a good goalie who overcame having little to no defense in front of him to bring a lot of success to his team. The problem I have is how do you judge whether anybody else could do the same thing, just because they had so much talent to win. Did they win despite him or would they have lost without him?

Goaltenders in that position are ALWAYS very difficult to evaluate. Barrasso always comes to mind for me... I think Fuhr was a great goalie..as I remember watching a LOT of Oilers games, especially in the playoffs and Cup finals. BUt I don't believe he deserves top five billing.

Thanks for the opinions!

[J0e Th0rnton]

Do you still play on steam ?

[jammer2]

1)Roy

2)Brodeur

3)Parent

4)Dryden

5)Sawchuck

Who to leave in, who to leave out.....my Flyer biased says Parent has to make it, and actually had the skill set to make it, just did not have the body of work to go with it. Dryden had great teams, but he was so big and agile, he rarely lost a big game. I hate leaving out Hall and Hasek, but someboy has to get the boot.

[Polaris922]

1. Roy

2. Hasek

3. Brodeur

4. Dryden

5. Sawchuck

[JR Ewing]

So glad to see you dude

I knew you would jump headfirst into a topic like this one We used to have some great ones.

Yeah, I *love* the hell out of "all-time" lists.

Do you still play on steam ?

Yeah. You can fire a friend request if you like. Username is "Sexton Hardcastle".

JR

[jammer2]

I'd like to give Tony Esposito gets an honourable mention here, and one of my favourite all time goalies as a kid was "the gumper". Not close to a top 5 list, but I loved the Gumper.

edit, as rux mentioned, I also had a soft spot for Gerry Cheevers.

[ruxpin]

I'm sorry, but the following can NOT be on the list of great goaltenders:

Grant Fuhr

Bernie Parent

Terry Sawchuck

Glenn Hall

The new folks will not understand this (trust me, it's not worth explaining) but the rest will understand that the above goalies were not even six feet tall.

Jacques Plante was only 6'0" and is therefore suspect as well.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Ill try. there are like 15 people with that name when i ran a search lol. ill link my steam account here.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Kwata542

[JR Ewing]

Top five all time goalies. Great topic.

4. Dryden. Cmon, six Stanley Cups in eight year career. One of the greatest teams ever tends to have people bump him down the list but when he quit playing the Hab's quit winning.

I disagree, but that's fine. I just always have a hard time getting over:

a] Dryden himself said that his function wasn't so much to win as not to lose. ****ling point, for sure., and the most minor of my three here.

b] The Habs continued to have an excellent record after Dryden left, even though the goaltending duties fell to Bunny Larocque and Denis Herron. The bigger issue, imo, is that the Islanders entered their start of their dynasty.

c] Competitive balance was so screwed up in the 1970s (thanks to expansion but also the league handing the reigns to Sam Pollock, who created rules to benefit the Habs more than anybody else) that it's not always easy to know how to look at some of the players.

JR

[J0e Th0rnton]

I'd like to give Tony Esposito gets an honourable mention here, and one of my favourite all time goalies as a kid was "the gumper". Not close to a top 5 list, but I loved the Gumper.

edit, as rux mentioned, I also had a soft spot for Gerry Cheevers.

heard Tony was a bit of a playoff flop himself

[jammer2]

@J0e Th0rnton Actually, in 99 career playoff games, he was under .500 and had a GGA of 3.07, which was not great back then....so not to far off. Tony O was still one of the best of his era though. Tons of respect for that guy.

[blocker]

just did not have the body of work to go with it. Dryden had great teams, but he was so big and agile, he rarely lost a big game. I hate

Yeah. I think the yardstick in choosing "best ever" goalies has to be consistency over a long time. There were nights that Roy was brilliant. But on the basis of having the fewest off nights, I'd give the best ever to Brodeur. Also, it's hard to compare Sawchuck to more modern keepers. The game has changed, and certainly so has the equipment.

Montreal was very patient with Roy's development. He alternated starts.

I know I've told this story before, but. I'd been working late and my wife was watching a Canadien game. Roy and Brian Hayward were swapping starts. I grabbed a beer, and hollered to my wife to tell me which player was in the nets. She said "They said it's Waugh, but if it is, he's got Roys shirt on.".

[blocker]

"but I loved the Gumper."

Me too. If we judge goalkeepers by the funny stories they've left, then Gumper has to be one of the best.

One day, Worsley was waiting for the train at the old Victoria Station. He ordered coffee and when it came it was cold. A cop comes in and takes the adjacent stool. When the cop's coffee came, Worsley said "Hey man, don't drink that, it's cold.". The cop takes a big swig, and burns himself on the scalding stuff. He stares at the Gumper and Worsley says "Don't look at me, I told you not to drink it.".

[JR Ewing]

Yeah. I think the yardstick in choosing "best ever" goalies has to be consistency over a long time.

I think that consistency over a long time is A yardstick, but not necessarily THE yardstick. When it comes to something like "who are the 5 best goalies ever?", I think the best approach is one which looks at the question from as many angles as possible.

We could ask people which of two men is bigger. One person could say that man #1 is bigger because he's taller. Another person could say that #2 is bigger because he's heavier. Yet another person could point back at man #1 and say that he's biggest because he's wider around the middle (AKA fat). You could give any of those answers, and with respect to which aspect you're speaking of, you'd be correct. The problem, of course, is that you could be incorrect about the others. For my part, I've always favored an approach which attempts to answer big questions like "Who are your top 5 goalies ever?" by breaking it down into a number of smaller questions.

Who had the best career value?

Who had the best peak value?

Who had the best collection of prime years?

Who had the best playoff runs?

And so on and so on. There's a lot of questions we could ask, and the more questions we ask which are relevant, the closer we get to a better answer. Asking one of them only gets us one step closer to the answer, imho.

JR

[jammer2]

@blocker ha ha...classic!!

[blocker]

I think that consistency over a long time is A yardstick, but not necessarily THE yardstick

Fair enough.

For me, the most important thing a good goalie brings is consistency. The soft floater allowed has more impact on a game than any number of high-light saves. The best goalies make the routine saves game-in, game-out, year-in,year-out.