Sick and tired of these Vanek and Miller rumours

[Buffalo Rick]

Why is everyone so damn convinced the Sabres will not offer long contracts to these two guys who we are dead without?  Do they think we are going to give Vanek away to Minnesota?  Get real.  Vanek first of all, I hope he is staying put.  We would be nuts to let him get away.  If Darcy Regier has totally lost his mind and does trade him, he had better get the keys to the city for him or else.  I would like to slap some sense into him and have him get long term deals done now for Miller and Vanek.   Wake up you idiot.  What do you want to do?  Would you have traded Gilbert Perrault when things were not going well?  Or Rick Martin?  Or Hasek.  I know what happened with Hasek, but he was a head case unlike Vanek and Miller.  We need to keep these guys.  Or they risk losing the fan base and their image.  They are both young enough to be here long enough for another run.  Like the one in 06 when we would have won the Cup if Tallinder and the other three starting defensmen went down injured.  Tallinder alone would have been enough to beat Carolina.  

[Polaris922]

Why is everyone so damn convinced the Sabres will not offer long contracts to these two guys who we are dead without? Do they think we are going to give Vanek away to Minnesota? Get real. Vanek first of all, I hope he is staying put. We would be nuts to let him get away. If Darcy Regier has totally lost his mind and does trade him, he had better get the keys to the city for him or else. I would like to slap some sense into him and have him get long term deals done now for Miller and Vanek. Wake up you idiot. What do you want to do? Would you have traded Gilbert Perrault when things were not going well? Or Rick Martin? Or Hasek. I know what happened with Hasek, but he was a head case unlike Vanek and Miller. We need to keep these guys. Or they risk losing the fan base and their image. They are both young enough to be here long enough for another run. Like the one in 06 when we would have won the Cup if Tallinder and the other three starting defensmen went down injured. Tallinder alone would have been enough to beat Carolina.

I used to agree with you about Miller, but recently I think he's been average at best. Vanek, however, is worth holding on to.

[jammer2]

@Hockey Junkie  "Why is everyone so damn convinced the Sabres will not offer long contracts to these two guys who we are dead without?"

 

 Um, cause you are dead *with* them. The Sabres are horrible. If they get rid of those guys, the whole thing is in rebuild mode, as it should be.

[Buffalo Rick]

@Hockey Junkie  "Why is everyone so damn convinced the Sabres will not offer long contracts to these two guys who we are dead without?"

 

 Um, cause you are dead *with* them. The Sabres are horrible. If they get rid of those guys, the whole thing is in rebuild mode, as it should be.

The Sabres are horrible?  And your team?  Hmmm

[Buffalo Rick]

I think its unfair to say the Sabres are horrible.   They are not losing games 7-1 or 6-2.  They have lost most of their games by a goal, 2-1 and such.  And had very bad luck in most of them.  Even in Chicago when they outskated  the Blackhawks.  The Flyers on the other hand are like us, 1-6.  I doubt you will say they are horrible.  The Sabres are the youngest team.  So if you are going to have a tough start, at least they have a better excuse than your team

[yave1964]

The Sabres are horrible?  And your team?  Hmmm

Play nice junkie, lol. You gotta admit that the Sabres are pretty bad off right now. Miller has been let down by the organization and the best thing for him might be a trade where he can have a shot at a cup. The Sabre system is in good shape prospect wise.

  A rumor I read once and cannot find it (but I will) to post the link, is a potential Vanek to the Oilers for Nail Yakupov. Other pieces in the deal as well, but it makes a lot of sense for both clubs if you think about it......

[Buffalo Rick]

Play nice junkie, lol. You gotta admit that the Sabres are pretty bad off right now. Miller has been let down by the organization and the best thing for him might be a trade where he can have a shot at a cup. The Sabre system is in good shape prospect wise.

  A rumor I read once and cannot find it (but I will) to post the link, is a potential Vanek to the Oilers for Nail Yakupov. Other pieces in the deal as well, but it makes a lot of sense for both clubs if you think about it......

The bigger roumor is for him going to Minnesota.  I sure hope it does not happen.  The Sabres despite their record have been in their games right to the end.  Only the Pittsburgh game they were never in and that was because we played Ottawa into OT the night before and Pittsburgh was rested and out for blood for us sweeping them last year.  We are not done yet.  This season is young.  We got the monkey off our back.  Stay tuned

[ruxpin]

I think its unfair to say the Sabres are horrible.   They are not losing games 7-1 or 6-2.  They have lost most of their games by a goal, 2-1 and such.  And had very bad luck in most of them.  Even in Chicago when they outskated  the Blackhawks.  The Flyers on the other hand are like us, 1-6.  I doubt you will say they are horrible.  The Sabres are the youngest team.  So if you are going to have a tough start, at least they have a better excuse than your team

 

It's not unfair to say the Sabres are horrible.    They are.   I know horrible.  My team is horribleR. 

 

But at least the Sabres are, I think, in a position to head in a very good direction.   I don't know what I'd do with Miller and Vanek if it were up to me.  I know I'd try my damnedest to resign Vanek, but from everything I hear, he's hell bent on going to Minny.   If they don't (or can't) have him signed by the deadline, or if Vanek tells them sooner than that that there's no way he's resigning, I move him for as good as I can get.   Actually, if I were GM, I'd try to make sure someone takes Leino in the deal.     But I think Miller is a weird case.  I mean, I think if I'm a Sabres' fan I am pretty attached to the guy.   Sabre management has to know that, so they have to know moving him will be unpopular.  Plus, the Schneider trade aside, deals involving a goalie don't often result in much of value coming back.

 

Maybe I just let him walk this summer and use his money elsewhere.  But he's another case where if he's not signed at the deadline, I probably move him and hedge my bets.

[Polaris922]

Sorry junkie but the sabers ARE horrible. They're prime for a rebuild (the dreaded word). You're not making the playoffs this season in my opinion, and have a lot of young talent in the pipeline. Why not get what you can and build a championship core??

[Buffalo Rick]

Sorry junkie but the sabers ARE horrible. They're prime for a rebuild (the dreaded word). You're not making the playoffs this season in my opinion, and have a lot of young talent in the pipeline. Why not get what you can and build a championship core??

Its stupid to let Vanek or Miller get away.  And who is to say we wont win the next few games?  We have been losing heartbreakers by one goal.  We have been in every game except one.  If I were you I would worry about your team.  Do you think you are going to make it?  Do you think you are going to have to rebuild?  There is no such thing as a rebuild the way it used to happen in the 70's.  Teams can turn things around fast if they do the right things.  Gettinig rid of two stars is not how to do it.  We also have guys like Ott and Hodgeson who can get it going and I like our defensive chore.  We  are not that bad.  Lets see what happens when we play you guys head to head.  I say we get at least a split.  We can beat Montreal.  We always knew how to do that.  Its too early to write us off.  I do not think New Jersey has won a game yet?  I know the Flyers are right where we are, in the **** hole at the moment.  Are you giving up on them?  TOO EARLY

[flyercanuck]

@Hockey Junkie

 

 If Vanek and/or Miller want to walk there's nothing you can do. You can deal them before the deadline. But if it isn't a sign and trade, the value won't be there.

 

 Polaris, by the way, is a Pens fan.

 

 And I don't see any Flyer fans on here pretending everything is A-OK and we just need a break to get right back in it, like a certain Buffalo fan I know. I mean really, how many years have you been saying this? Buffalo hasn't been very good for a few years now.

 

 We KNOW our team is horrible. Admitting it is the first step Rick...c'mon, you can do it.

[yave1964]

Horrible is subjective. For my Wings, Horrible is making the playoffs and getting bounced early. For the Sabres horrible realistically could be playing above expectations and winding up with the fifth or sixth pick instead of the first.

  Junkie, I know this is a Flyer dominated forum, and obviously I do not know the history between you and the fella's but comparisons between teams, saying my club has a bigger weewee than yours is counterproductive.

  If you wanna say Vanek is more valuable than Giroux, fine. If you can back it up with some statistical evidence even better. To just say Miller is the greatest goalie since Turk Broda and all subsequent goalies you need to back it up.  To just say your Flyers suck or my Red Wings are the worst team in the game you better bring it. People get bored quickly just hearing how bad their team sucks. I am sure you do too, that is why I like to point out your positives, (two straight solid drafts, Ott, Vanek, ect....) so say something nice about the flyers every now and then if you need to mention them at all.

[Polaris922]

Its stupid to let Vanek or Miller get away. And who is to say we wont win the next few games? We have been losing heartbreakers by one goal. We have been in every game except one. If I were you I would worry about your team. Do you think you are going to make it? Do you think you are going to have to rebuild? There is no such thing as a rebuild the way it used to happen in the 70's. Teams can turn things around fast if they do the right things. Gettinig rid of two stars is not how to do it. We also have guys like Ott and Hodgeson who can get it going and I like our defensive chore. We are not that bad. Lets see what happens when we play you guys head to head. I say we get at least a split. We can beat Montreal. We always knew how to do that. Its too early to write us off. I do not think New Jersey has won a game yet? I know the Flyers are right where we are, in the **** hole at the moment. Are you giving up on them? TOO EARLY

I'm not a Flyers fan, as my friend @flyercanuck pointed out for you. I am a Pens fan, and you did play us, getting your proverbial clocks cleaned doing so.

I critique every team, my own included, with what I see on the ice. I actually LIKE the Sabres as an organization and have a few Sabres fans as buddies from the service. I'm simply telling you what I see in your team. You have a great youth movement.. Why not capitalize on it?

Save your "I would worry about your team" remarks for the classroom. We all talk hockey here, and outside views are not only welcome but true hockey fans encourage them! If not, change your name to Sabres Junkie and be done with the pretense.

[radoran]

I know the Flyers are right where we are, in the **** hole at the moment.  Are you giving up on them?  TOO EARLY

 

You really do have Flyers on the brain, don't you? Is anyone who thinks the Sabres are in trouble a Flyers fan? Because I know a lot of people in Buffalo who think the Sabres are in trouble, should trade Vanek and Miller and they hate the Flyers.

 

STOP assuming everyone on this board other than you is a Flyers fan. You know what they say about people who assu

[Buffalo Rick]

I'm not a Flyers fan, as my friend @flyercanuck pointed out for you. I am a Pens fan, and you did play us, getting your proverbial clocks cleaned doing so.

I critique every team, my own included, with what I see on the ice. I actually LIKE the Sabres as an organization and have a few Sabres fans as buddies from the service. I'm simply telling you what I see in your team. You have a great youth movement.. Why not capitalize on it?

Save your "I would worry about your team" remarks for the classroom. We all talk hockey here, and outside views are not only welcome but true hockey fans encourage them! If not, change your name to Sabres Junkie and be done with the pretense.

I am a Sabres fan first.  If they are hopelessly finished I will cheer for St Louis and Vancouver. Vanek is being mentioned in a trade with the Flyers so I had to bring them up.  I think its very unlikely we do business with an eastern team anyway.  Most teams would rather deal a star caliber player to the other conference so they do not have to see them again very often.  Like Jason Pommenville who I loved and he stuck it up our rear ends the other night

[sarsippius]

@Hockey Junkie

We KNOW our team is horrible. Admitting it is the first step Rick...c'mon, you can do it.

*gasp* that's not really rick, is it? Although it would explain the overrating of Miller.....

[flyercanuck]

I thought it was. Am I wrong?

[Buffalo Rick]

*gasp* that's not really rick, is it? Although it would explain the overrating of Miller.....

If not for Miller we would have lost 13-2 last night.  And I am serious.   Miller is a great goalie.  Say anything you want.  He is the best.  Put him with a top team and its all over.  If he was with the Sharks they would win the Cup or the Blues or any team that is close but falls short.  Vanek and him are likely to get sick of it if the others do not pick it up and help.  I fear they will want out and who could blame them.  Its sad sad times to be a Sabres or Flyers fan.  It sucks.   I expected the Devils to be bad.  The Rangers? Did not see this coming either.

[ruxpin]

Its stupid to let Vanek or Miller get away.  And who is to say we wont win the next few games?  We have been losing heartbreakers by one goal.  We have been in every game except one.  If I were you I would worry about your team.  Do you think you are going to make it?  Do you think you are going to have to rebuild?  There is no such thing as a rebuild the way it used to happen in the 70's.  Teams can turn things around fast if they do the right things.  Gettinig rid of two stars is not how to do it.  We also have guys like Ott and Hodgeson who can get it going and I like our defensive chore.  We  are not that bad.  Lets see what happens when we play you guys head to head.  I say we get at least a split.  We can beat Montreal.  We always knew how to do that.  Its too early to write us off.  I do not think New Jersey has won a game yet?  I know the Flyers are right where we are, in the **** hole at the moment.  Are you giving up on them?  TOO EARLY

 

Hey HJ,

 

Seriously, kudos for keeping the faith, although I personally think it's unfounded.   The answer to the above (in both) on both teams is a resounding "YES!"    I'm afraid another season of frustration for both teams.   Cheer up, though.  At least your team has some prospects.

[Samifan]

Its sad sad times to be a Sabres or Flyers fan. It sucks.

Yes it does!

Sabres management has to realize that neither Miller or Vanek have any interest in sticking around for another contract. Vanek wants to be in Minny and Miller wants to play out west somewhere so he can be closer to his actress wife. Sabres management needs to turn the page with both of them sooner than later and be done with it. What happens if either of them suffer a season ending injury and then just walk away with the sabres getting nothing in return? Someone in the Sabres front office needs to hit Reiger on the back of the head to wake him up.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Samifan

[jammer2]

  fc, pols, rux, rad and yave just about covered it all, no need to add anything.

[hf101]

hey @Hockey Junkie

 

did you write this?...

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-edmonton-oilers-rw-nail-yakupov-unlikely-buffalo-143500765--nhl.html

 

 

 While a deal to bring the 20-year old former first overall draft pick to Buffalo would be a welcomed move by the fans of the team, there are a thousand - obvious over exaggeration - different reasons why a move like that won't happen. I guess I shouldn't say won't since anything is possible, but it's very, for lack of a better term, unlikely.

First thing's first, Ryan Miller has a limited no trade clause which gives him the ability to give a list of eight teams that he would not accept a trade to, and according to Sportsnet's Nick Kypreos, the Oilers are on the list. So, no matter how bad Edmonton needs a goaltender, the likelihood of Miller accepting to go there is slim-to-none.

Okay, so Miller is out of the question, but what about Vanek? Well, that's where the Sabres have more room to work.

Unlike Miller, Vanek doesn't have a version of a no trade clause in his contract which gives Buffalo the chance to ship him to any team with the best offer. Unfortunately, what people seem to forget in the world of trades is that it takes two to make a deal.

It's not like a video game where you can force another team to make the deal. The other party has to like what's coming back, and if you're the GM of the Edmonton Oilers Craig MacTavish, why on earth would you trade Yakupov for Vanek?

Despite the ongoing tension between the team and player, Yakupov is only in his second year and is coming off a rookie season in which he scored 17 goals and 31 points in a lockout shortened year. He's a young kid with tremendous upside and a contract that will keep him with the team for a few seasons.

Vanek, on the other hand, is a player with an expiring contract who, in all likelihood, wouldn't re-sign in Edmonton after the season. It would become a deal of unfathomable proportions for the Oilers: a young, highly-talented scorer for an aging sniper heading into free agency.

Sure, it probably wouldn't be just Thomas Vanek going back to the Oilers as they would likely want either draft picks or a couple players who will be in the system for a few years. But that doesn't change the fact that the biggest piece going back to Edmonton is a player who won't be there for long.

Now tell me, would you do the deal if you were Edmonton? If I had to venture a guess, I'd say probably not.

[Polaris922]

hey @Hockey Junkie

did you write this?...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-edmonton-oilers-rw-nail-yakupov-unlikely-buffalo-143500765--nhl.html

Clearly he did not, as the author says Vanek isn't worth Yakupov, and HJ believes Vanek is one of the best In the league...

[blocker]

Buffalo isn't going anywhere this year.   If I was Regier, I'd advertise my team to the public and other GMs as a project in the making.  I'd say I was content to let my kids who show promise,  take me into the future.   Plus, I have a blue chip in Vanek and a competent goalie in Miller. 

 

The, I'd sit back and see what someone offers me.    

[radoran]

Buffalo isn't going anywhere this year.   If I was Regier, I'd advertise my team to the public and other GMs as a project in the making.  I'd say I was content to let my kids who show promise,  take me into the future.   Plus, I have a blue chip in Vanek and a competent goalie in Miller. 

 

The, I'd sit back and see what someone offers me.    

 

That's pretty much what Regier has said. Hockey Junkie refuses to accept that position and concurrently insists that Regier must be retained.

 

I think 14 years of failure is enough and it is time for a new perspective in Buffalo - one that doesn't think that Tim Connolly, Drew Stafford and Derek Roy are cornerstones of a successful franchise.

 

Which, of course, previously was the case. The belief, that is - not the "successful franchise."

 

The "sit back and see what someone offers" is key.

 

Someone offered a first round draft pick for Paul Gaustad and another a 1st, 2nd and two above-average prospects for Jason Pominville. 

 

If someone comes in and blows the doors off for your pending UFA forward and goalie, you take the deal.

 

Or you sign an extension. It's big boy time at the table.