Downie

[mojo1917]

Say we keep Downie... where does Laughton fit in?

Laughton will not be on the 4th line, and the top 9 is all booked up.

I know that's several months down the road, but I wonder if that affects how they treat the Downie situation. Or if they look at trading away someone in the top 9 (or Laughton).

why can't Laughton play top 6 minutes in Adirondack ? play him in all situations , let his confidence continue to grow.maybe he gets to the NHL as a 22/23 year old with good experience and confidence .

 

i don't see Downie as hindrance to Laughton's career,

[OccamsRazor]

 I watched Laughton play again last night

 

They played Barrie is when you're talking about right? Who won?

[brelic]

why can't Laughton play top 6 minutes in Adirondack ? play him in all situations , let his confidence continue to grow.maybe he gets to the NHL as a 22/23 year old with good experience and confidence .

 

i don't see Downie as hindrance to Laughton's career,

If he dominates at the AHL level next year, I guess that's a good problem to have.

[FreakinFlyersFan]

Coincidence or not but when the Flyers got Downie they started winning...

[doom88]

If he dominates at the AHL level next year, I guess that's a good problem to have.

Ding ding ding! Thank you!

[AbelMorpheus]

Finding chemistry is a tough thing to do. If his asking price is reasonable sign him by all means.

[radoran]

He's making $2.65M rightnow.

 

He's clearly showed his value for the team to this point - assuming it continues what would be a "reasonable" asking price from Downie's agent?

[brelic]

He has 6 points in 7 games with Philly, points in 5 of those games, 19 PIMs, 14 SOG, and averaging about 16:30-17:00 TOI.

And we're 6-0-1 with him, 4-10-2 with Talbot.

Talbot has 2 points in 11 games with Colorado, both assists came in the same game, averaging about 15:00-15:30 TOI.

The Avalanche are 7-4 with him, 10-1 with Downie.

SIGN HIM TO 10 YEARS NOW!!!!

[mojo1917]

@radoran 3.25 for 3 years ?

 

he's a tough case for me to gauge value for because he can play anywhere,  he could conceivably be worth a Hartnell-esque salary . he's played top line minutes at has last 2 stops...someone will pony up for his skill set.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I am no salary expert, but I am thinking a reasonable raise for Downie would be something in the neighborhood of 3.5- just under 4 mil per?  Maybe for 3 or 4 years?

 

I looked up some salaries and cap hits on capgeek, and tried to find some other players who play some of the scoring/agitating/rough style and came up with these:

 

Alex Burrows (Van)... Cap hit 4.5...he will be making 6, 5, 4, and 3 mil over the next four years in actual salary...he had been making 2 mil previously....now, Downie may not put up the points Burrows would, but Downie definitely agitates as much, and will will fight and forecheck more.

 

Matt Cooke (Min)..... Cap hit 2.5 ..... making 1.5, 3, and 3 over the next three years...again, agitator and tough checker like Downie...however, Downie would put up more points than Cooke.

 

Kyle Brodziak (Min)...Cap hit/Salary... 3 mil...again, tough checking forward, scores the occasional goal....Downie would score more though...and he can be found roughing it up a bit like Downie would too..

 

Brandon Prust (Mon)...Cap hit/Salary.. 2.5 mil...VERY similar player to Downie, IMO...Prust MAY be a bit better fighter, but Downie, with the right players, would be more of an offensive threat.

 

Steve Ott (Buf)...Cap hit/Salary 2.9/3.2....again, similar in style to Downie...though Downie would probably be more up front about aggression and again, be a better offensive threat.

 

Just a few players off the top of my head I decided to look into salary-wise. There are sure to be many others he can be compared to for the purposes of salary.

 

Of the players I mentioned, I think Downie is a better offensive threat than all of them, except maybe Burrows...but I think his toughness factor, and his ability to really get under the skin of opposing players is on par with the others here.  In the cases of Cooke and Ott, Downie would be considered more the fighter than a pest like those two are.

 

Just my stab at seeing what Downie could be worth in a future contract.

[radoran]

I am no salary expert, but I am thinking a reasonable raise for Downie would be something in the neighborhood of 3.5- just under 4 mil per?  Maybe for 3 or 4 years?

 

I looked up some salaries and cap hits on capgeek, and tried to find some other players who play some of the scoring/agitating/rough style and came up with these:

 

Alex Burrows (Van)... Cap hit 4.5...he will be making 6, 5, 4, and 3 mil over the next four years in actual salary...he had been making 2 mil previously....now, Downie may not put up the points Burrows would, but Downie definitely agitates as much, and will will fight and forecheck more.

 

Matt Cooke (Min)..... Cap hit 2.5 ..... making 1.5, 3, and 3 over the next three years...again, agitator and tough checker like Downie...however, Downie would put up more points than Cooke.

 

Kyle Brodziak (Min)...Cap hit/Salary... 3 mil...again, tough checking forward, scores the occasional goal....Downie would score more though...and he can be found roughing it up a bit like Downie would too..

 

Brandon Prust (Mon)...Cap hit/Salary.. 2.5 mil...VERY similar player to Downie, IMO...Prust MAY be a bit better fighter, but Downie, with the right players, would be more of an offensive threat.

 

Steve Ott (Buf)...Cap hit/Salary 2.9/3.2....again, similar in style to Downie...though Downie would probably be more up front about aggression and again, be a better offensive threat.

 

Just a few players off the top of my head I decided to look into salary-wise. There are sure to be many others he can be compared to for the purposes of salary.

 

Of the players I mentioned, I think Downie is a better offensive threat than all of them, except maybe Burrows...but I think his toughness factor, and his ability to really get under the skin of opposing players is on par with the others here.  In the cases of Cooke and Ott, Downie would be considered more the fighter than a pest like those two are.

 

Just my stab at seeing what Downie could be worth in a future contract.

 

Good stuff, TFG. I spent a little while combing through capgeek as well. Your basic run of the mill 20/50 guy basically gets $4M per. That's the going rate. Which is midbogling.

 

If he takes mojo's $3.25M for 3, I'd do that - but we're not making this offer until at least 2014

[flyercanuck]

They played Barrie is when you're talking about right? Who won?

 

Barrie, of course.   5-3....we're on a bit of a roll right now. 8 wins and 2 OT losses in last 10...outscoring the opposition 48-18 in the process.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Regarding Laughton, Adam Hall is a UFA after this year, that frees up a center spot.  I'm not saying Laughton should be playing 4th line mins; personally, I don't think that helps him develop.  Either way, my point was simply that there COULD be a spot for him next year.

 

Regarding that plate of crow..I'll take mine.  

[flyercanuck]

@DaGreatGazoo

 

I'd rather see Laughton a top 6 center position on the Phantoms than play 5 minutes a night on the 4th line in Philly. He's got some offensive skill that should be encouraged, not buried. 

[radoran]

Regarding Laughton, Adam Hall is a UFA after this year, that frees up a center spot.  I'm not saying Laughton should be playing 4th line mins; personally, I don't think that helps him develop.  Either way, my point was simply that there COULD be a spot for him next year.

 

I'd rather see Laughton a top 6 center position on the Phantoms than play 5 minutes a night on the 4th line in Philly. He's got some offensive skill that should be encouraged, not buried. 

 

The point is well taken that Laughton is groomed to be a Top 6 (second line NHL) Center and putting him on the fourth line or whatever wing isn't going to take advantage of his skillset to its best ability as shown throughout his career to this point.

 

The Couturier comparison would be in the "Mike Richards" 2nd line center mold, with the ability to make a "third" line into a "2b" line. 

 

Richards had 11/34 and 10/32 in his first two seasons and you look for him to be a 25/65 producer. Couturier's 13/27 and "7/26" shows he might not be a Richards-level talent, but that he could reasonably become a 20/50 forward.

[Bertmega]

@DaGreatGazoo

 

"Regarding that plate of crow..I'll take mine."

 

Me too   :wacko: 

[JackStraw]

No. Be patient. Wait for Morin and Hagg.

[King Knut]

While I love that he's here -i thiught we gave up too soon on him as a fiest round pick- and that he's not an insane person anymore as well, and also I love what he's doing on that line with Read and Coots, I just want to say that he was beaten into a pulp his first game which was really the only blow out loss all year, and downie then missed the next several games -in which they started winning.

I think he's been gangbusters since he got back, but I can't go in for the 'Downie's the reason for the turnaround' theory.

He's certainly helped continue the trend.

Honestly, I think giroux's the reason. The difference in his game between the loss against the devils to the win gain at the oilers was striking. The dude flipped a switch. That loss was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

I honestly believe he found his game and the team followed. Schenn and Vinny and Read had their moments of clarity, but they weren't the captain and they weren't consistent.

Coincidence or not but when the Flyers got Downie they started winning...

[King Knut]

Just to play Devil's advocate, both Richards 10/32 season and Couturier's 7/26 were during shortened seasons. Also, Richards was almost 3 years older for his than Coots was for his.

Coots hasn't begin to show us his stuff yet and what he has shown us is nothing to discredit due to a lack of goals.

He's an utterly different type of player than Richards, but he's still an incredibly valuable asset now... Already.

The Couturier comparison would be in the "Mike Richards" 2nd line center mold, with the ability to make a "third" line into a "2b" line.

Richards had 11/34 and 10/32 in his first two seasons and you look for him to be a 25/65 producer. Couturier's 13/27 and "7/26" shows he might not be a Richards-level talent, but that he could reasonably become a 20/50 forward.

[radoran]

Just to play Devil's advocate, both Richards 10/32 season and Couturier's 7/26 were during shortened seasons. Also, Richards was almost 3 years older for his than Coots was for his.

Coots hasn't begin to show us his stuff yet and what he has shown us is nothing to discredit due to a lack of goals.

He's an utterly different type of player than Richards, but he's still an incredibly valuable asset now... Already.

 

 

Terrific observations! But I had already scaled Couturier's season to an 82 game. Richards would be 14/44 based on an 82 gamer

 

I don't honestly see comparing him to a Cup-winning former captain of the organization who has scored 30 legit three times and "on pace" for three is a denigration of Couturier.

 

I don't see Couturier as a 30-goal player. I do see him as a valuable asset that could be part of a building effort.