Are We Missing a Briere-Gagne Type?

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Earlier today I was thinking that our scoring from in close is lacking because we don't have a skilled set of hands in front of the net.  Briere-Gagne could pounce on pucks and/or take feeds from behind the net. Mes' assist to Coots was an exception to what we've seen this year.  I know why Briere and Gags were let loose...but I wonder who on this roster can replace their skill set?

 

Best,

Howie

[flyerrod]

At this point in time, and I really do like Gagne, the only place he would fit (due to Hartnell/Simmonds contracts) is the 4th line. Gagne instead of Raffl would be a decided improvement. That is not a knock against Raffl as he has been doing a solid job on the 4th line but he could be getting a lot more ice time in the AHL playing top line minutes vs 4th line. I still do not know what the hidden issues are with Gagne as he should be playing in the NHL if he wanted to be. There has got to be something keeping him off the ice.......

[off_the_post]

@Howie58, interesting. I was thinking the other day if there was a Flyer alone in the slot with a shot which Flyer would I want it to be. Read came to mind, but Vinny and G as well.  I think Read has a quicker release but he really hasn't capitalized on some great chances lately. I was hoping for just a bit more.  The problem with Vinny and G as the answer to my questions is they are both centers and likely passing to that player.  I think my answer should have been Voracek or Hartnell and the fact that is wasn't really shows how the productively of the first line is just not there.  When Read is 2nd in goals scored playing on the 3rd line and only 2nd pp unit I think is a testament to his goal scoring ability.

[brelic]

@Howie58, interesting. I was thinking the other day if there was a Flyer alone in the slot with a shot which Flyer would I want it to be. Read came to mind, but Vinny and G as well.  I think Read has a quicker release but he really hasn't capitalized on some great chances lately. I was hoping for just a bit more.  The problem with Vinny and G as the answer to my questions is they are both centers and likely passing to that player.  I think my answer should have been Voracek or Hartnell and the fact that is wasn't really shows how the productively of the first line is just not there.  When Read is 2nd in goals scored playing on the 3rd line and only 2nd pp unit I think is a testament to his goal scoring ability.

Read is the top sniper on this team. And, no disrespect to Read, but that's not gonna cut it. Hartnell pretty much stands in front of the net like an oaf hoping to have pucks deflect off of him or pick up garbage goals. And that's where it ends. Giroux is becoming a perimeter player. Voracek is a perimeter player. So, who's gonna put the puck in the net on that line?

I think Schenn has the tools to be a power forward. He's like JVR in that he's inconsistent, frustrating at times, but then once in a while you see some flashes of talent. He'll need more time to develop as a power forward. I think he can play Hartnell's role on the first line much better and with more talent.

Give it a shot. Cool handlebar mustache notwithstanding, Hartnell is not a top line player.

[SwedeFly]

@Howie58

I can't remember ever seeing Briere parking himself in front of the net to pick up loose change.

He's usually the one behind the net setting things up or attempting a wrap around.

What this team needs is a Bobby Ryan or Perry to play with Giroux....not Hartnell.

[flyercanuck]

Briere showed up about 1 in every 4 games he played for the Flyers. I never understood why anyone wanted to make a guy like that captain of the team. There may not be many with his hands, but there are plenty with his work ethic...that's why we aren't very good.

[fanaticV3.0]

Greetings:

 

Earlier today I was thinking that our scoring from in close is lacking because we don't have a skilled set of hands in front of the net.  Briere-Gagne could pounce on pucks and/or take feeds from behind the net. Mes' assist to Coots was an exception to what we've seen this year.  I know why Briere and Gags were let loose...but I wonder who on this roster can replace their skill set?

 

Best,

Howie

 

At this point in their careers there isn't much to replace.You say things like "I know why they were let go" when it's strictly a contract situation. That's not the only reason they were let go. True, they cost too much, but their skills have also eroded. Briere has 9 points this year. Gagne is unsigned. There's a reason for both.

[fanaticV3.0]

Briere showed up about 1 in every 4 games he played for the Flyers. I never understood why anyone wanted to make a guy like that captain of the team. There may not be many with his hands, but there are plenty with his work ethic...that's why we aren't very good.

 

In addition to this thread, I remember seeing an outpouring when he was let go. People on Facebook were going nuts. I didn't get it. People were sad he was leaving. I had nothing against the guy and he was an ok enough player here, but I never felt attached to him at all, and never understood the legit sadness I saw people express when he left.

[flyercanuck]

@fanaticV3.0

 

 His playoffs varied between good and great. But he had 2 good regular seasons (out of 5) and there were so many nights when you didn't know he even played, unless he was taking one of his stupid lazy penalties. Not exactly the type of guy I want leading my team..

[murraycraven]

Read is the top sniper on this team. And, no disrespect to Read, but that's not gonna cut it. Hartnell pretty much stands in front of the net like an oaf hoping to have pucks deflect off of him or pick up garbage goals. And that's where it ends. Giroux is becoming a perimeter player. Voracek is a perimeter player. So, who's gonna put the puck in the net on that line?

I think Schenn has the tools to be a power forward. He's like JVR in that he's inconsistent, frustrating at times, but then once in a while you see some flashes of talent. He'll need more time to develop as a power forward. I think he can play Hartnell's role on the first line much better and with more talent.

Give it a shot. Cool handlebar mustache notwithstanding, Hartnell is not a top line player.

 

 

Agreed... this Team really needs a sniper and someone that knows how to bury scoring chances.  Read is that guy on this Team - not trying to discredit Read b/c I love his game and think he brings a lot.  They just need an offensive talent that is consistantly putting the puck in the net.  Throw in a good mobile dman and you might actually have a playoff Team.  Until then I see them as a .500 Team.

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0

 

 His playoffs varied between good and great. But he had 2 good regular seasons (out of 5) and there were so many nights when you didn't know he even played, unless he was taking one of his stupid lazy penalties. Not exactly the type of guy I want leading my team..

 

This annoyed me, because it just reminded me of all the times during the season when he didn't do sh!t.

[Howie58]

This annoyed me, because it just reminded me of all the times during the season when he didn't do ****.

 

Greetings:

 

I am not longing for the good old days or saying that both of these players should have been kept aboard. But I don't see a very skilled guy other than Vinnie who shows "magic" within 10-15 feet of the net and turns garbage into goals. Hartnell is a power dude. I am talking a skilled guy who almost pulls the puck out of the air. I don't see a sniper but agree Read has a quick release.  Right now I would be happier with a team that can get the puck on the net in the first place.

 

Best,

Howie

[fanaticV3.0]

Greetings:

 

I am not longing for the good old days or saying that both of these players should have been kept aboard. But I don't see a very skilled guy other than Vinnie who shows "magic" within 10-15 feet of the net and turns garbage into goals. Hartnell is a power dude. I am talking a skilled guy who almost pulls the puck out of the air. I don't see a sniper but agree Read has a quick release.  Right now I would be happier with a team that can get the puck on the net in the first place.

 

Best,

Howie

 

They definitely need a skilled winger, I don't disagree with you there.

 

I think the question is what would you be willing to trade to get one?

Edited December 2, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[murraycraven]

They definitely need a skilled winger, I don't disagree with you there.

 

 

Queue the Bobby Ryan rumors! 

[fanaticV3.0]

Queue the Bobby Ryan rumors! 

 

Ah, Bobby Ryan. He's our Jerome Iginla of this generation. We've been rumored to get them both so many times now, that I actually forgot neither has played a minute for us.

[Howie58]

They definitely need a skilled winger, I don't disagree with you there.

 

I think the question is what would you be willing to trade to get one?

I am not sure I'd trade for anybody now.  I want to see what they do with the current roster. But I hope that the franchise gets another puckmoving d-man and maybe we draft some people who can score.  

Best,

Howie

[murraycraven]

I am not sure I'd trade for anybody now.  I want to see what they do with the current roster. But I hope that the franchise gets another puckmoving d-man and maybe we draft some people who can score.  

Best,

Howie

 

Greetings Howie...   I would consider trading right now if the deal was right and the player was right.  Out of everthing I have taken away from this season and last is that Giroux NEEDS someone on his line.   Hartnell and Voracek just are not those types of player.  I think if G had someone on his line that could be a consistent offensive player this Team would be much better.  Pushing out Hartnell or Voracek would give some much added depth on the wing as well.

 

The way I look at this anymore - G will never be able to dominate like a Crosby, Stamkos or Malkenstein.   He is going to need the players on his line to produce at or near an elite level.   If you buy a Porsche you dont put cheap tires on it...   just like if you pay someone 8M a year you cant put slop on the ice next to him...

 

In the end I would still dangle B Schenn out there and see what is around.   Maybe you could package both Schenn's in a deal...  

Edited December 2, 2013 by murraycraven

[radoran]

The way I look at this anymore - G will never be able to dominate like a Crosby, Stamkos or Malkenstein.   He is going to need the players on his line to produce at or near an elite level.   If you buy a Porsche you dont put cheap tires on it...   just like if you pay someone 8M a year you cant put slop on the ice next to him...

 

Completely agree.

 

Sidney Crosby makes Pascal Dupuis into a legitimate scoring threat.

 

Giroux has $9M worth of wingers riding on his line and we are where we are.

 

I've never seen Giroux "take over" a game.

[murraycraven]

Completely agree.

 

Sidney Crosby makes Pascal Dupuis into a legitimate scoring threat.

 

Giroux has $9M worth of wingers riding on his line and we are where we are.

 

I've never seen Giroux "take over" a game.

 

 

Rad,

 

I have always loved G but I cant get that contract out of my head.   Knowing the amount he is going to be paid for nearly the next decade is making me hyper-critical of him.   I know it is probably not fair but it is what it is...

[fanaticV3.0]

I am not sure I'd trade for anybody now.  I want to see what they do with the current roster. But I hope that the franchise gets another puckmoving d-man and maybe we draft some people who can score.  

Best,

Howie

 

It doesn't have to be from the current roster though. If someone called about Laughton, I wouldn't hang up right away. I also mentioned trading Emery and still consider doing that if somebody was inquiring about him. I don't know what he'd get you, but he's not somebody we must keep.

 

I agree they need a defenseman along with a winger, but I prefer guys who can play defense first. If they are good two-way players great, but if they aren't then you are stuck with someone like Streit.

Edited December 2, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[FreakinFlyersFan]

Completely agree.

 

Sidney Crosby makes Pascal Dupuis into a legitimate scoring threat.

 

Giroux has $9M worth of wingers riding on his line and we are where we are.

 

I've never seen Giroux "take over" a game.

Different type of player Giroux, not the same as Crosby who can do things all on his own. Giroux needs a supporting winger to shine and when his wingers are slumping he will as well. I would compare Giroux more to Malkin the way he plays...Malkin just went through a 13 game slump because his linemates were slumping as well.

[fanaticV3.0]

Greetings Howie...   I would consider trading right now if the deal was right and the player was right.  Out of everthing I have taken away from this season and last is that Giroux NEEDS someone on his line.   Hartnell and Voracek just are not those types of player.  I think if G had someone on his line that could be a consistent offensive player this Team would be much better.  Pushing out Hartnell or Voracek would give some much added depth on the wing as well.

 

The way I look at this anymore - G will never be able to dominate like a Crosby, Stamkos or Malkenstein.   He is going to need the players on his line to produce at or near an elite level.   If you buy a Porsche you dont put cheap tires on it...   just like if you pay someone 8M a year you cant put slop on the ice next to him...

 

In the end I would still dangle B Schenn out there and see what is around.   Maybe you could package both Schenn's in a deal...  

 

Agreed if it is the right player coming and going. I don't agree on dangling Schenn though. Maybe if it was something really good, but it would have to be eye-catching to trade your 2nd leading scorer in what appears to be his breakout season. He's slowed down a bit now, but he was one of the only guys worth a damn up front when the team was at its worst.

 

I also agree Giroux needs somebody.

[mojo1917]

I think on the surface we are not missing a Gagne today type player...

we are missing a Gagne circa 2005-07 player.  

 

I think along with many others that we need a legit scoring threat for the top line.  Hartnell is not getting it done without Jagr & Giroux bouncing pucks into the net off his stick. Jake doesn't look for his shot when it's there the way Jagr did so until he changes  the way he thinks Hartnell is in the slot looking for the one-timer everyone knows is coming.   We are lacking a  stone cold killer on the wing, i hate him but James Neal would be a good fit with his size and finishing touch, same with this is for you @Orangecat bobby ryan,  both those guys can skate well enough to keep up with v and g ... I like Hartnell, think he's a good guy to have on your team, he's just not a top line guy unless the other two are sublime talents, in which case any plumber could do.

[radoran]

Different type of player Giroux, not the same as Crosby who can do things all on his own. Giroux needs a supporting winger to shine and when his wingers are slumping he will as well. I would compare Giroux more to Malkin the way he plays...Malkin just went through a 13 game slump because his linemates were slumping as well.

 

Malkin has 35 points in 28 games, had a stretch of six games earlier this season where he had two points and has just two other games all season where he was held pointless. I just don't see the "slump" you describe.

 

He has 17 points in his last eight games.

 

Giroux has 18 on the season.

 

Malkin is a Hart winner, Lindsay winner, Calder winner, two-time Art Ross winner and Conn Smythe winner where he led the league in playoff scoring.

 

I've seen Evgeni Malkin completely take over games. Many times.

 

I've yet to see Giroux do that. Once. There was that one time, at band camp, in the playoffs two years ago where he had a great shift.

 

Then he pretty much vanished as his team was swept from the playoffs.

 

At this point, Giroux doesn't belong in the same sentence. With Malkin.

[murraycraven]

There was that one time, at band camp, in the playoffs two years ago where he had a great shift.

 

LOL!!!!  Great reference... and what happened to the flute?

 

In all seriousness... agree 100% with everything.   I think there are a lot of folks who would say Crosby is 1A and Malkin is 1B for the top players in the league.