Dropping the Gloves: Was signing Lecavalier a mistake?

[FlyersFan4Life]

good video http://www.csnphilly.com/show/dropping-gloves

 

I usually do not like tim p I think he is a yes man kool aid drinker. But even he sees that vinny was a mistake singing as many of us on this forum saw. The flyers did not get what they need which was a winger or a better themselves on d or save the cash and cap space for a rainy day. Nope they went out and got the BIG NAME FA they got the big name but failed to get what the teams really needs were which was d or a winger or save the cap space. now we are stick with a big contract. Way to go homer

[OccamsRazor]

But even he sees that vinny was a mistake singing as many of us on this forum saw.

 

I'll just say that i would have like the 4.5mill x 5 he is bringing home on a #2 or #3 D man this team needs badly.

 

But i guess the Flyers love wingers gives them a chance to place someone out of position don't know why but they love that.

 

I can't see him completing his contract here there will be a trade before the end. Also he seems to be hurt a lot. So for myself i would have prefered a AHLer in betweener over him then they could have use that 4.5 to throw a nice contract at Vanek. That is my 2 cents.

[ruxpin]

I hated this signing at the time. I just about had an aneurysm on here when it happened.

I still hate it. Dumb dumb stupid move

[pilldoc]

It is a luxury we cannot afford. Did not like it then and still don't like it now.

[ruxpin]

It is a luxury we cannot afford. Did not like it then and still don't like it now.

Yeah. It's not that I have anything against Vinny. It's just that Homer got two get out of jail free cards to erase idiotic signings. So what does the moron do? Why turn around and do it all over again (twice = Streit).

Streit was at least an attempt to address an actual need. Vinny was just an idiot who... Oh Shiney!

[pilldoc]

Yeah. It's not that I have anything against Vinny. It's just that Homer got two get out of jail free cards to erase idiotic signings. So what does the moron do? Why turn around and do it all over again (twice = Streit).

Streit was at least an attempt to address an actual need. Vinny was just an idiot who... Oh Shiney!

Agreed . No ill will towards VLC. He is a great player, but he is not what this team needed... Especially what homer is paying him.

[radoran]

I have no problem with the $4.5M - if VLC can put up 20 goals and 50 points they get their money's worth.

 

The problem arises when you have a player who says he's not comfortable playing the wing, and you're already stacked with centers and insist on trying to get him to play wing.

 

Agreed . No ill will towards VLC. He is a great player, but he is not what this team needed... Especially what homer is paying him.

 

So, y'know - "this"

[flyercanuck]

Yeah. It's not that I have anything against Vinny. It's just that Homer got two get out of jail free cards to erase idiotic signings. So what does the moron do? Why turn around and do it all over again (twice = Streit).

Streit was at least an attempt to address an actual need. Vinny was just an idiot who... Oh Shiney!

 

 

This 

 

Holmgren, out of pure luck, gets out of the Briere and Bryz signings (yes Bryz had 7 good games and yes Briere had 2 nice regular seasons and 3 nice playoffs...it was an EIGHT YEAR CONTRACT) Of course the team is still handcuffed every summer with the 7 year over 35 Pronger deal. So how can we combine all three? I got it,  sign 35 year old Mark Streit and broken down Vinnie LeCavalier. Everytime you think this team has an actual plan, it just gets thrown out the window for "Oh ya, we can win now".

 

I swear that every day of every month of every year on every calendar in Flyers management offices is February 2nd. 

[fanaticV3.0]

good video http://www.csnphilly.com/show/dropping-gloves

 

I usually do not like tim p I think he is a yes man kool aid drinker. But even he sees that vinny was a mistake singing as many of us on this forum saw. The flyers did not get what they need which was a winger or a better themselves on d or save the cash and cap space for a rainy day. Nope they went out and got the BIG NAME FA they got the big name but failed to get what the teams really needs were which was d or a winger or save the cap space. now we are stick with a big contract. Way to go homer

 

Sounds funny, because for so many years he was the complete opposite of that.

[radoran]

Sounds funny, because for so many years he was the complete opposite of that.

 

Amazing the change that the name signing the paycheck can have, eh?

[fanaticV3.0]

Amazing the change that the name signing the paycheck can have, eh?

 

Oh yeah. When I watch him now, it's just like he gave up. You never agree with somebody all of the time, but I liked him and read his stuff all the time when he was still with the Inky. Now, I don't even bother unless somebody directs me to it.

[radoran]

Oh yeah. When I watch him now, it's just like he gave up. You never agree with somebody all of the time, but I liked him and read his stuff all the time when he was still with the Inky. Now, I don't even bother unless somebody directs me to it.

 

When the primary outlet "covering" a team is owned by the same people that own the team, you have to expect that the "reporting" won't be quite the same.

[TarHeelFlyer]

You know at the time I didn't have a problem with it, but that was some other assumptions being made which don't look like they are working out.

 

At the time:

 

I was assuming that Hartnell/Giroux/Voracek was actually going to be our first line.  That hasn't worked in any way shape or form.

 

I was assuming that Schenn could actually make the transition to 2nd line LW.  That hasn't happened.  A line of Schenn/Vinnie/Simmonds was supposed to be a competent 2nd line.  That hasn't worked out.

 

Now that none of that has happened it looks REALLY bad, and I mean REALLY bad.  Schenn must be at center in order to be what it is we want him to develop into.  Vinnie isn't effective at the wing either.  What does that mean?

 

At this point, yes this signing would be a mistake. 

[murraycraven]

Agreed . No ill will towards VLC. He is a great player, but he is not what this team needed... Especially what homer is paying him.

 

 

this about sums it up for me...

 

you get rid of Danny B and pick up another long term contract for an aging vet that is ont he downside of his career.   not a good deal.

[Howie58]

Yes, and I think the developmental side (shorting youngin time to play VL) may be worse than the outlay.  The Streit signing was only marginally better.

 

Howie

[jammer2]

  Jason Ackeson from the Phantoms could have provided close to the same numbers as Vinny, with no long term commitment. This team *always* thinks it's a few big names away from taking it all.....another classic mismanagement of cap space and assets. Homer = tool.

[ruxpin]

  Jason Ackeson from the Phantoms could have provided close to the same numbers as Vinny, with no long term commitment. This team *always* thinks it's a few big names away from taking it all.....another classic mismanagement of cap space and assets. Homer = tool.

 

Do you suppose it's even about being a few big names from taking it all?  Or do you think it's about "we have to have a few marquee names to sell tickets and jerseys because the people that post on the Flyers' Facebook posts eat that crap up?

 

In all seriousness, I no longer think it's even a "win now" thing.  It's simply about the appearance of trying and some new names for jersey and ticket sales.

[radoran]

Do you suppose it's even about being a few big names from taking it all?  Or do you think it's about "we have to have a few marquee names to sell tickets and jerseys because the people that post on the Flyers' Facebook posts eat that crap up?

 

In all seriousness, I no longer think it's even a "win now" thing.  It's simply about the appearance of trying and some new names for jersey and ticket sales.

 

When you see the distressing number of #68s, not to mention the "old" #18s and #17s people bought after they signed guys to a decade-long deal, it's hard to argue.

[OccamsRazor]

Jason Ackeson from the Phantoms could have provided close to the same numbers as Vinny, with no long term commitment.

 

Yep and may have played just as good defensively too....the only reason i can see is they didn't want him going to the BIG apple or somewhere else and they have to face him in the division....so they signed him to keep him away from the enemy it's all i got....makes just no sense other wise.....like FC stated after all they just got out from under and then to turn around and then this crap....

 

Also if i'm throw that 4.5 mill around for an old guy i'm giving it to a proven commodity in orange and black  and that would have been Jagr...besides the playoff in the regular season he was outstanding especially with Jake G and Hartsy....

Edited January 30, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[doom88]

It looks bad at the moment, and earlier in the season when he was scoring (7pts in 8 games in Oct) it looked good.  I think it's fair to evaluate this on a season to season basis.  I don't think the sample set is large enough yet, especially given the issues this team went through already this season.

 

I don't know if I would have signed him last offseason, but I can see where management was going with the idea.  Big name, established guy, who hopefully can help Giroux take that step to the next level either mentally and/or statistically (a la Jagr).  Vinny was 33 at the signing (read: under 35), so that's an improvement too for this franchise.  Brayden Schenn hadn't impressed much yet, and it would have been too risky relying on him to center the second line with no fallback plan.  Last season, it appeared that Mason would be a regular brick wall, and the defense was improving.  That hasn't exactly worked out as it appeared it could have either.  Who knows what this team would look like if the trends from last season continued into this season?  I bet that if the team (players) kept taking steps forward, the Vinny signing would look a hell of a lot better.

 

But again, most of that didn't work out and every detail now looks ridiculous.  It's like they built the WF Center on an indian burial ground or something.

[ruxpin]

What trends? Suckage? I'm sorry, but last year was an abortion and the very end was only a mirage--not a trend--that only served to screw up our draft position.

There is nothing good about this cluster **** of a defense and there wasn't last year either.

The Vinny signing was unmitigated insanity on Homers part

[jammer2]

  I for one, am SICK and TIRED of this team always guarding against the worst case scenario and an endless stream of contingency plans. How about we think outside the box for once??  How about we place some faith in our upand comers and trust they will do the job? That means handing the reigns over to Gus on the pp. He had a respectable 8 pts in 27 games last year for the Flyers, a very small sample size, but if projected out over the length of a season, it's VERY respectable production...with limited ice time. Gus could have learned from Kimo.....AND Gus is one of the only Flyer d-men who can actually skate the puck out of trouble. Streit was not needed AT ALL. If Gus was playing regularly on the top pp, I have no doubt he would have more pts than Streit, and a much better plus minus....sickening.

 

Same for B.Schenn, give him the reigns and let him develop....will there be growing pains, yes of course, it's always that way when kids are learning on the fly....BUT the smart teams, they take these leaps of FAITH with their kids, they do not block them, they do not sign a over the hill vet in case they don't do the job....it's called trusting your scouts and your eyes.

 

 Here we are in the very first year of Streit's and Vinny's contracts.... AND they already look horrible....deals no other teams would have handed out. Plus Streit is a plus 35 deal, on the cap till the day the contract is finished, playing or not.....WOW.

 

 Why do we draft kids and block their way to success???  A little faith goes a long way!!!

[King Knut]

The thing that gets me is that friggin jagr was available again.

Not resigning jagr and carle was the big mistake two tears ago, so this year we get VLC and Streit?

Clearly and attempt to fix that mistake, but also a clear representation that Homer just doesn't seem to get it.

I'll just say that i would have like the 4.5mill x 5 he is bringing home on a #2 or #3 D man this team needs badly.

But i guess the Flyers love wingers gives them a chance to place someone out of position don't know why but they love that.

I can't see him completing his contract here there will be a trade before the end. Also he seems to be hurt a lot. So for myself i would have prefered a AHLer in betweener over him then they could have use that 4.5 to throw a nice contract at Vanek. That is my 2 cents.

[ruxpin]

I for one, am SICK and TIRED of this team always guarding against the worst case scenario and an endless stream of contingency plans. How about we think outside the box for once?? How about we place some faith in our upand comers and trust they will do the job? That means handing the reigns over to Gus on the pp. He had a respectable 8 pts in 27 games last year for the Flyers, a very small sample size, but if projected out over the length of a season, it's VERY respectable production...with limited ice time. Gus could have learned from Kimo.....AND Gus is one of the only Flyer d-men who can actually skate the puck out of trouble. Streit was not needed AT ALL. If Gus was playing regularly on the top pp, I have no doubt he would have more pts than Streit, and a much better plus minus....sickening.

Same for B.Schenn, give him the reigns and let him develop....will there be growing pains, yes of course, it's always that way when kids are learning on the fly....BUT the smart teams, they take these leaps of FAITH with their kids, they do not block them, they do not sign a over the hill vet in case they don't do the job....it's called trusting your scouts and your eyes.

Here we are in the very first year of Streit's and Vinny's contracts.... AND they already look horrible....deals no other teams would have handed out. Plus Streit is a plus 35 deal, on the cap till the day the contract is finished, playing or not.....WOW.

Why do we draft kids and block their way to success??? A little faith goes a long way!!!

Amen.

Well said

[pilldoc]

 

 Why do we draft kids and block their way to success???  A little faith goes a long way!!!

totally agree!!!  That is what i have been saying too, but some on here disagree with our train of thought.  I see no reason why Lauridson should not be on this team right now.