Unlikely but article discusses poss. of Flyers moving to #1 spot in draft

[Bakanekimiwa]

Fantastic series on tv...Billy Bob's character is excellent, perfect for him.

 

Have to agree.. great series and makes you watch the movie again, which of course is excellent. 

[Vanflyer]

I prefer to build a team from the net on out....we have the goalie, now we need the stud d-man, a true #1 franchise d-man. A guy who can play up or down a goal late in games, can clear the crease, run a top pp, control the game from the back end....if we don't make this move now for a guy like Exblad, where do we find a guy like that? I get it,

 

Right, wrong or indifferent, they Sabres (who hold the #2 pick) don't think that Eckblad is all that: 

 

"I was a little upset after first hearing the news, but there really isn't one guy … I think everybody has a different list and there's not one guy that's probably outstanding on everyone's list," Devine said. "It's not a Sidney Crosby, John Tavares or Steven Stamkos type of year, so while I'm a little disappointed we didn't get the top pick I believe we're still going to get a good player."

 

Maybe PR, but I tend to agree. 

 

My point being, that we don't mortgage the farm for that player. I agree we need a #1 d-man, but not at the cost suggested. 

[sarsippius]

he did end up playing for the Flyers but a lot older ........

Seems to me I've heard that song about 50 times....

[jammer2]

 

I'm not sure how this kind of trade would be mortgaging the future. I think I mentioned a package similar to Voracek, Morin, and the 17th for the 1st overall. 

 

I don't want to trade Voracek. I don't want to trade Morin. But I'm saying if I were a GM and that kind of trade scenario became a possibility, man, it would be a tough call. Giving up Voracek would hurt the most. Morin gets upgraded big time to Ekblad, and we also lose out on adding a prospect to the farm. I can live with that more than I can giving up Voracek.

 

But if you look at the long-term of the franchise, a guy like Ekblad has the pedigree to be a Shea Weber (he's been compared to him) or a Drew Doughty back there. Can you imagine how that would impact the team? The Kings do not win two Cups without Doughty. The Hawks do not win two Cups without Keith. The Bruins do not win a Cup without Chara. It's not just the difference those guys made in the playoffs, but also the difference they make night in and night out in the season. 

 

So in fantasy land, if the Florida Panthers call me up and say they want Voracek, Morin (or Hagg or Ghost), and the 17th for the 1st overall, I would be inclined to make the trade for the long-term picture, knowing full well that it will set the team back a few years to offset the loss of Voracek... or not, if they manage to sign a UFA.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that, for me, a franchise defenseman is more important - and MUCH rarer -  than a top line winger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I agree with most of that, except for the Doughty comparison. I don't see a lot of Drew in his game, Doughty is a better skater (but don't think by a whole lot), plays more of a finesse game. We don't yet know if Exblad is going to one of those special d-man who can control the pace of the game from the back end....those types are far and few between....but he *could* be that type of guy. The only thing that is for sure with Aaron right now is his defensive game, smarts, shut down ability and his impressive size (and he could get bigger). His offense shows signs of being above average. He's got a hard, deadly accurate point shot....and does seem to have the knack to score big goals at important times. That's the hardest thing guess with young d-men....how their offense will translate to the NHL game from the CHL.

 

  I think the very worst Exblad can turn out is a Adam Foote clone. I loved Adam's game, what a great shut down guy he was in his prime. He never got a ton of press on those Ave's championship teams, but he was a big part of those runs. Personally I think he has way better offensive upside than Adam could ever dream of......the big question is, how good/great will his offense eventually be? Points wise, I see his low end projections at about 45 pts per year, with the upside of cracking the 70pt barrier.......therein lies his scary value.....cause as you know, you don't see 70 point shut down defenders, but it could turn out he becomes just that. *If* he did become that, than trading Vorachek, Coburn and (can we throw in Alt and leave Hagg, Morin and Ghost alone....lol??) whoever becomes a lot less destructive to the teams depth.

 

"I guess what I'm saying is that, for me, a franchise defenseman is more important - and MUCH rarer -  than a top line winger."

 

 Most take this line of thinking as gospel, and I'm one of them. We have only had one true superstar d-man in the history of this franchise. Mark Howe, and that was decades ago. We *know* the Flyers can draft goals ie quality forwards. We *know* that they could not select a star d-man if their lives were on the line. This may be one of our only realistic shots at ending this steak of futility. I want a star d-man DAMMIT.....and I'm willing to overpay a bit to make it happen. A future top 6 of Exblad, Morin, Hagg, Ghost, Alt and Laurisden.....that could very well be a championship caliber defense....much, much to early to really speculate on that....but the one thing is.....they are talented enough to have a *chance* of being a championship type crew....when is the last time the Flyers could say anything close to that about a crop of young d-men.....I'd venture to guess never. Exblad is the missing piece...we need to get him.

[aziz]

a guy like Ekblad has the pedigree to be a Shea Weber

 

i think the point is that shea weber didn't have the pedigree to be a shea weber.  scouting projections just aren't that accurate, making a trade sending a handful of assets for a roll of the die dangerous.  move that much for the honor of drafting ekblad and have him turn into the above mentioned adam foote clone....

[ruxpin]

Yeah, the Nodicks / Avs say hello though with their shiny ring.

I'm with you on all of this and it's almost as if people are deliberately missing the point.

So, rather build from within and cited Lindros. This is spot on and listing a litany of things that weren't his fault really isn't relevant. The point is that we mortgages the entire current team and prospects etc. We got ONE finals appearance out of it in the following 16 years. ONE. And lost it (swept!), by the way.

The team that was built around Lindros was not home grown. It 2 nearly all everyone else's crops. ONE finals appearance in 16 or so years.

Pronger: we traded a boatload for him. Yes, we went to a finals. No, listing a litany of things that aren't his fault is NOT relevant. We have up a bunch of picks and prospects, etc., and are now weaker for having done it.

Grow and build from within. Yeah, any player can be unexpectedly injured or have his career suddenly end. Not to be callous, put if it's a home grown player at least you haven't lost multiple picks, prospects and players worth of investment.

(just as an aside, we would not have won with CuJo either. We just would have spent more money on losing)

[ruxpin]

Right, wrong or indifferent, they Sabres (who hold the #2 pick) don't think that Eckblad is all that:

"I was a little upset after first hearing the news, but there really isn't one guy … I think everybody has a different list and there's not one guy that's probably outstanding on everyone's list," Devine said. "It's not a Sidney Crosby, John Tavares or Steven Stamkos type of year, so while I'm a little disappointed we didn't get the top pick I believe we're still going to get a good player."

Maybe PR, but I tend to agree.

My point being, that we don't mortgage the farm for that player. I agree we need a #1 d-man, but not at the cost suggested.

Completely agree. I really think the people wanting to package our first pick and prospects and top six players for Eckblad have just completely lost their minds. It's coming from people I completely respect so I'm honestly not saying that to be insulting, but people have a serious case of "oooo Shiney!" going on.

[flyercanuck]

Completely agree. I really think the people wanting to package our first pick and prospects and top six players for Eckblad have just completely lost their minds. It's coming from people I completely respect so I'm honestly not saying that to be insulting, but people have a serious case of "oooo Shiney!" going on.

 

 

 It's happened so often with the Flyers it's become the norm. Heck, I LOVE Ekblad, watched him play here for 3 years. I still want nothing to do with trading Voracek, Coburn and a 1st for him. 

[brelic]

@ruxpin

 

I assure you, I have not lost my mind. Sometimes I wonder though

 

@flyercanuck

 

What is it in the Voracek/Coburn/1st hypothesis that offends you so much? Is it trading for 1st overall? Trading to pick a defenseman? Or trading any of those players, period, to move up? Are they 'untouchables' in your mind?

 

Actually, I didn't say Coburn, I said Morin or Ghost. In my mind, Ekblad would be an upgrade over both those guys, and I say that without having seen any of them play a single NHL game. Plus, I'm not a scout So it's based really on the assumption that the Flyers scouts are world class at their jobs, and that 1st overall picks have a high likelihood of reaching their potential. Of course, history shows that's not always the case with defensemen. Over the past 20 years, 1st overall defensemen have hardly been elite - Erik Johnson, Chris Phillips, Bryan Berard, Jovanovski, and Hamrlik. There are probably 20 guys I would take before any of them over that time period. I'd say that's an underwhelming list.

 

So I get that taking a defenseman 1st overall is riskier than a forward. And I'm not saying that Hextall should pursue this. What I was saying is if, through back channels (because that's how I imagine they float things around the league), the Flyers find out that a similar package could fetch them the 1st/2nd overall pick... well, gosh darnit, they might want to seriously consider it.

 

I just honestly think that we don't have a single top pairing defenseman in our stable of up and comers - and again, I say this based on scout's analyses. Morin, Hagg, Ghost, Alt - None of them project to 1st pairing. Of course, neither did Shea Weber, or Keith, or Subban.

 

Mostly, though, I'm just sick and tired of having a mediocre blueline and look at it as an opportunity to grab a guy who has more than legitimate potential to be a cornerstone. And that, to me, trumps whatever Voracek and Coburn bring to the table - in the LONG term of course.

 

That would likely mean wasting a few of Giroux's good years too. Which would be no fun.

 

But in the end, this is just a thought exercise, guys! We've had far too long to think about such things, haha. I really have hope that the Hextall regime will be different (cue insanity definition).

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

 I'd just like to get away from the 3 for 1 trades that never seem to work out for us. I'd prefer to be on the sell high, buy low side. 

 

 And I wasn't referring to you specifically bre, just to many different trade proposals that were several of our players for one pick. 

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

I assure you, I have not lost my mind. Sometimes I wonder though

 

My post was clearly directed toward you and Jammer, but I like to assume that you (both)  haven't.  I like your class in not "sinking to the level" (you guys both must have spent some time on message boards! )  But I do think you've both gone down the rabbit hole a bit on this one.  Just personal--albeit colorful--opinion and it wouldn't be the first time you guys were right and I was wrong.

 

The question you posed was directed toward @flyercanuck and he answered sufficiently and I agree with what he's saying on the "from the Flyers" end of it.  But if I may:  I simply don't trade our current best defenseman (what THAT says is for another discussion!), our best winger, and our first round pick for a guy who in as many draft boards as not is not even a #1 overall pick.  I simply don't think this team is currently in such bad straights that I want to gut it for a crap shoot.  I know "crap shoot" will garner "he's ready" and "he's bona fide" responses, but Voracek and Coburn are both already "he's ready" and "he's bonafide."   I'm just not gutting the top of the team for that  and tossing away the next two years trying to find replacement pieces.  I just don't think it's warranted.  And, honestly, I'd rather stay the course with the development of Morin, Hagg, and Ghost anyway. 

[brelic]

My post was clearly directed toward you and Jammer, but I like to assume that you (both)  haven't.  I like your class in not "sinking to the level" (you guys both must have spent some time on message boards! )  But I do think you've both gone down the rabbit hole a bit on this one.  Just personal--albeit colorful--opinion and it wouldn't be the first time you guys were right and I was wrong.

 

The question you posed was directed toward @flyercanuck and he answered sufficiently and I agree with what he's saying on the "from the Flyers" end of it.  But if I may:  I simply don't trade our current best defenseman (what THAT says is for another discussion!), our best winger, and our first round pick for a guy who in as many draft boards as not is not even a #1 overall pick.  I simply don't think this team is currently in such bad straights that I want to gut it for a crap shoot.  I know "crap shoot" will garner "he's ready" and "he's bona fide" responses, but Voracek and Coburn are both already "he's ready" and "he's bonafide."   I'm just not gutting the top of the team for that  and tossing away the next two years trying to find replacement pieces.  I just don't think it's warranted.  And, honestly, I'd rather stay the course with the development of Morin, Hagg, and Ghost anyway. 

 

I honestly do feel as strongly about staying the course as making a bold move. And by bold move, I mean trading for the future... not trading the future away which has been this team's mantra for so long! (Richards and Carter notwithstanding for several reasons).

 

As I said in my previous post, though, I'm mainly frustrated with our mediocre defense. How can they be so highly paid and so average? That's some bad personnel decisions, right there. 

 

To make it worse, I was at a party last night and had a chat with the rarest of fans - an Oilers fan! He had a grand old time scratching his head about JVR, Bryzgalov, Lecavalier, Streit, and most of all, MacDonald. He said the Flyers are so desperate for a top defenseman that they go out of their way to sign middling guys Islanders cast-aways to stupid contracts. He's not wrong. And that was the most annoying part of it.

 

Next week is gonna be fun!

[ruxpin]

I honestly do feel as strongly about staying the course as making a bold move. And by bold move, I mean trading for the future... not trading the future away which has been this team's mantra for so long! (Richards and Carter notwithstanding for several reasons).

 

As I said in my previous post, though, I'm mainly frustrated with our mediocre defense. How can they be so highly paid and so average? That's some bad personnel decisions, right there.   Completely agree. Highest paid defense in the league, if I'm not mistaken, and clearly not in the top half (top 10 anyway) in skill or result.

 

To make it worse, I was at a party last night and had a chat with the rarest of fans - an Oilers fan! He had a grand old time scratching his head about JVR, Bryzgalov, Lecavalier, Streit, and most of all, MacDonald. He said the Flyers are so desperate for a top defenseman that they go out of their way to sign middling guys Islanders cast-aways to stupid contracts. Oilers' fans really shouldn't comment about any other team.  He's not wrong. And that was the most annoying part of it. 

 

Next week is gonna be fun!  Let's hope!

 

I actually do think he's wrong on two counts.  One is inarguable, the second is my own trip down the rabbit hole:   First, he's not an Islanders cast-away.  They offered him pretty significant money and he cast THEM away (can you really blame him?).  I think we paid too much for him but luckily it doesn't have a NTC/NMC.  I was actually stunned by the amount but I figure it was yet another example of Holmgren outbidding himself.  I was very happy to get MacDonald when we traded for him and think he be great as a second pairing defenseman.  Unfortunately, he's been given first pairing money and, more importantly, seems to be viewed that way by the front office (well, by Holmgren anyway.  Hextall may actually hate his guts.  Who knows?).  I think playing him more than 20-21 minutes begins to both wear him down and expose him.   But if they'd keep him second pair with second pairing minutes and Schenn continues to improve next to him, that's a good thing.  (The $$$ still bothers me).

[ruxpin]

For the folks who really like Eckblad.

 

Keeping in mind that next year's draft is supposed to be a bit deeper, would you entertain the idea of trading this year's first rounder (#17) and next year's first rounder (assuming we still have it--I haven't looked) for the #1 pick this year and would that get it done?   Would you throw in the 2nd rounder this year (or next year--again, not sure we have either) on top of it if the 2 firsts don't do it?

 

Would Florida do this in with the philosophy of quantity versus one defenseman since they aren't in a "one-player fix" position and because while Eckblad may or may not be a really good defenseman, typically that defenseman isn't going to attract new people to fill the seats?

[pilldoc]

I am really stuck in the middle here.  I honestly see both sides of the story.

 

#1) There is no doubt we need an upgrade on the blue line.  Sadly with what Homer has accomplished (with regards to the contracts he has given out), there is little wriggle room for Hexy.  I just can't fathom going in to next season with essentially the same defense.  @brelic I totally agree...we have a mediocre defense and I for one am sick of it. We all knew last years team was not going to go deep into the playoffs.  Now here we sit 5 days from draft night where we have an entire thread contemplating if we should move up or not.   Here sits Ekblad as a possible cornerstone for a defense, at the top of the draft.  There are many valid reasons to why we should attempt to trade up as has been mentioned throughout this thread. My Flyers heart in O&B is screaming....trade up if possible ...trade up.  Here is a potential difference maker we should make every attempt to snag him.   Then there is the other side of the coin.............

 

#2) My head starts to kick, and taking away the impulse of trading up, I start to logically try to think this through and say.....whoa....hold up and put on the brakes.  Do we really want to trade away players in order to try to move up.  As has been mentioned, Jake's name has been thrown around as a potential player Florida might ask for.  It certainly means possibly parting ways with either Haag, Morin, Ghost.  Losing Jake IMO would hurt.  It appears that Ekblad is definitely better that Morin, Haag, Ghost.  Face it all  of them have never played a minute of NHL ice time yet.  So none of us could possibly see what the future has in store for any of these players.  Therefore I can definitely see @ruxpin POV and just stay put and see how our prospects turn out.  Personally, I think it would cost more to trade up then just our #17, pick one (Morin, Haag, Ghost) and say an offensive player such as Jake. 

 

I am truly on the fence with this one.  I see all sides if the issue.  However, if someone held a gun to my head and said make a choice right now, I agree with @ruxpin and jut stay the course and see how Hexy draft's this year.  I just think Florida would want much more than what I am willing to give up.  And yes..I get the example with Lindros, however, that was a pre-cap era with different rules.  That NHL style of hockey is not being played anymore. 

 

(getting off my soap box)

Edited June 22, 2014 by pilldoc

[ruxpin]

I am really stuck in the middle here.  I honestly see both sides of the story.

 

#1) There is no doubt we need an upgrade on the blue line.  Sadly with what Homer has accomplished (with regards to the contracts he has given out), there is little wriggle room for Hexy.  I just can't fathom going in to next season with essentially the same defense.  @brelic I totally agree...we have a mediocre defense and I for one am sick of it. We all knew last years team was not going to go deep into the playoffs.  Now here we sit 5 days from draft night where we have an entire thread contemplating if we should move up or not.   Here sits Ekblad as a possible cornerstone for a defense, at the top of the draft.  There are many valid reasons to why we should attempt to trade up as has been mentioned throughout this thread. My Flyers heart in O&B is screaming....trade up if possible ...trade up.  Here is a potential difference maker we should make every attempt to snag him.   Then there is the other side of the coin.............

 

#2) My head starts to kick, and taking away the impulse of trading up, I start to logically try to think this through and say.....whoa....hold up and put on the brakes.  Do we really want to trade away players in order to try to move up.  As has been mentioned, Jake's name has been thrown around as a potential player Florida might ask for.  It certainly means possibly parting ways with either Haag, Morin, Ghost.  Losing Jake IMO would hurt.  It appears that Ekblad is definitely better that Morin, Haag, Ghost.  Face it all  of them have never played a minute of NHL ice time yet.  So none of us could possibly see what the future has in store for any of these players.  Therefore I can definitely see @ruxpin POV and just stay put and see how our prospects turn out.  Personally, I think it would cost more to trade up then just our #17, pick one (Morin, Haag, Ghost) and say an offensive player such as Jake. 

 

I am truly on the fence with this one.  I see all sides if the issue.  However, if someone held a gun to my head and said make a choice right now, I agree with @ruxpin and jut stay the course and see how Hexy draft's this year.  I just think Florida would want much more than what I am willing to give up.  And yes..I get the example with Lindros, however, that was a pre-cap era with different rules.  That NHL style of hockey is not being played anymore. 

 

(getting off my soap box)

 

 

Yeah, I called them nuts (okay, that wasn't fair), but I completely get paragraph #1.   If they're really going to go into this season with more of the same (but a year older!) on defense, I really don't think you can expect much from the standings.  Maybe if they had a coach with a "defense be damned, go score!" philosophy (oh, wait!) but not with a "defense-first" guy (a philosophy I actually prefer, all things being equal) trying to play defense-first without a defense.

[pilldoc]

Yeah, I called them nuts (okay, that wasn't fair), but I completely get paragraph #1.   If they're really going to go into this season with more of the same (but a year older!) on defense, I really don't think you can expect much from the standings.  Maybe if they had a coach with a "defense be damned, go score!" philosophy (oh, wait!) but not with a "defense-first" guy (a philosophy I actually prefer, all things being equal) trying to play defense-first without a defense.

 

Honestly, @ruxpin...what has changed ....nothing.  Kimmo is a year older and possibly a year slower.  L. Schenn?? maybe he will learn something during the off season. This defense was exposed like a bad Benny Hill film clip. The Flyers top brass has made their bed with the situation and now are forced to lie in it.  If we were picking #1, then Ekblad is a no brainer, however, IMO, I just think Florida is going to want a king's ransom for the pick.  That is why I agree with you and should just stay put. 

 

As someone posted in another thread on a different article:

 

""Bottom line....need a number one defenseman."____The Flyers have already done what the Kings, Blackhawks ans Canadiens did, they've drafted defensemen well positioned to be NHL studs - Shayne Gostisbehere, Robert Hagg and Sam Morin. Now they need time to develop, just like Doughty, Keith & Suban."

 

Sadly, patience is hardly a word uttered by most Flyers fans.  Alot of fans that I talk to want quick fixes and the reality is there is no quick fix.

Edited June 22, 2014 by pilldoc

[murraycraven]

Now way I would make a Jake, Coburn and 1st for Ekblad. Like Ekblad a ton but not sure he is the guaranteed #1 franchise defenseman.

Build within and stop giving up assets... More so when it is your first line RW that plays along your captain and star... Not to mention giving up the 1st and arguably the beat dman on your team.

[AJgoal]

Ekblad could be the next Shea Weber, or Drew Doughty, or he could be the next Alex Daigle, who at the time was supposed to be Mario Lemiuex part deux, and we here in Philly know how that worked out. Or Patrik Stefan, who was projected to be a 100-point player with good hockey sense and a strong work ethic, who instead succombed to injuries early in his career.

 

As FC said, you're buying high if you trade three pieces for Eckblad's potential. Which of these four defensemen, the first four picked in their draft year (in order), would you trade Voracek, Coburn, and a 1st for, based on their pre-draft reports? I'll tell you up front that I'm not certain I'd do it for any of them, even with the benefit with hindsight of knowing that some are all-stars:

 

Player 1: SI: Seventh-rated North American skating prospect ... does not mind mixing it up, as evidenced by picking up 114 penalty minutes in only 47 games for the U.S. National team. One scout described his style as "abrasive." He had two goals and an assist in seven games at the World Junior Championships ...and often is used on the power play. TSN: He's a mobile puckhandler who makes a good first pass. He can be an effective member of a power play unit. His conditioning and fitness levels are off the chart and he's got a bit of a feisty side to him, though he's not a banger.

 

Player 2: SI: Not particularly flashy, he's a dependable player who logs plenty of ice time. A good skater, he can carry the puck, pass it and shoot it from the point. He's smart, dependable and rarely caught out of position. An ankle injury sidelined him for 14 games in his second season... he was an alternate captain. "Watching him play is like watching a video game. He can go straight, forward, backward or side-to-side equally well," ... "But what sets him apart from a lot of people is his character. He's a leader at 17, he wants to be the best and he pushes himself." TSN: While he doesn't put up big offensive numbers and should not be confused with an offensive defenseman, he has an incredibly strong two-way game and excellent mobility - forwards, backwards and laterally. He does use his size to advantage and has no glaring weaknesses...

 

Player 3: TSN: He's a banger, a physical force who loves to lay out the punishing hit... It would be too much pressure to put on the youngster to suggest he's a young Scott Stevens, but he is clearly cut from the same sort of cloth, a naturally aggressive, hard hitter whose physical attributes sometimes overshadow the other quality elements of his game. That is, a strong skater who reads the play well with and without the puck, a guy who makes a good first pass and who possesses a heavy, accurate slapshot that gave him 16 goals this past season. He's an able fighter, if that's required...

 

Player 4: SI: Inconsistency could drop him into the second round, although he impressed scouts with a yeoman performance at the World Under-18 Championship in Russia. He posted a plus-11 rating... Has the size and the speed to succeed in the NHL and his 33 assists each of the last two seasons show he can handle the puck. Ended the season ranked 25th among North American skaters by NHL Central Scouting. In juniors, he was used on the power play and in penalty-killing situations.

 

It's not just about how well a player skates. Daigle openly admitted he had no desire, even though he put up the points in Juniors. Injuries sideline tons of guys. Some just can't adjust to the speed of the game in the NHL. With so much potential to go wrong, I can't justify making a trade to take two steps back to maybe take one forward.

[pilldoc]

@AJgoal

 

so who are the players in your post?  I'm curious.

[AJgoal]

I want to see who posters would make that trade for not knowing who they are, but based solely on what was known prior to the draft, and if they would make that trade at all. If I tell folks who they are, it may color their decision. It's all about potential (ie: Ekblad's)

 

I will say that I believe 99% of posters would like to have two of those players in particular, 60% would would be ok with having a third on their team, and 50% would run screaming from the last.

 

I will of course tell you who they all are once I get a few bites.

Edited June 22, 2014 by AJgoal

[ruxpin]

@AJgoal

 

I would not make the trade for any of them.      I would find #1 personally tempting and I'd think at least for a little bit on #4.   #2 no way in hell.  Not sure about #3.

 

But ultimately, I would not do it on principle.  Full Disclosure:  I know who everyone but #3 is (not positive but am sure enough I might place a small bet on it)..
.  I wish I could have played this without knowing, so I won't give up who they are because it IS an interesting exercise.

[pilldoc]

ok...i'll bite....though I do agree with @ruxpin I'm not trading for anyone of them  However, "IF" I where to make the trade then......

 

#1 is tempting

#2 sounds like a solid defense man

#3 like rux said...might find a place for him

#4 no way ...inconsistency might = laziness?  not playing hard?

Edited June 22, 2014 by pilldoc

[doom88]

None of them for Voracek, Coburn, and a first. Too many known assets going the wrong way.

Pretending a reasonable trade...

1 and 3, no way 2 and 4. If I'm moving up, I'm getting something impressive in return (not #2), and I'm not reaching (#4).

[pilldoc]

ok...i googled your list.....wow is all i can say.  Gives one a new perspective.  Knowing the list now....I would not trade for anyone of them.  Maybe #1 but it is very tempting.