Most Overrated Superstar NHL Player

[JagerMeister]

And won a Cup and went deep in another finals. And was a heckuva faceoff guy. I'm not trying to defend Crosby (as a Flyers' fan, it's genetically impossible).

As to the "isn't that an effective way."

3 times did not qualify for the playoffs

3 times one round and done.

2 times second round, once a sweep.

1-5 in game sevens. 2G 2A in those games. one goal was down 5-0 to Pitt in the clincher (Crosby was 2G 1A in the same game). The other (against Philly, of course) was a game tier in the 2nd, so that's a pretty big goal. But...

I'm going to say no.

it feels like your blaming it solely on Ovechkin, like he was the main reason they weren't doing very good. Remove ovechkin and washington capitals is an even more horrendous team, and btw Sidney crosby made the finals and won a stanley cup because he wasn't doing everything by himself. He had malkin who was b easting in the playoffs, MAF player pretty good and they just had a better team in general.

[jammer2]

@radoran   Admittedly, the Leafs had some decent squads in the early 2000's. Mats played the first part of his career on VERY crappy teams, and as time went on, they got more competitive. For me, the turn to respectability came when Potvin was replaced Cujo and then Balfour. He's not a star, so he does not qualify, but I call Potvin very overrated....and he was never ranked very high to begin with. The only goalie to embellish more saves in the NHL was another Leafs tender, Mike Palmateer...the Popcorn Kid.

[Hatrik98]

I'd say Alexandre Daigle or Alexandre Yashin. Both were suppose to be the next generation studs. Daigle couldn't cut it with a new Franchise in Ottawa and Yashin turned out to be a overpaid journeyman.

[jammer2]

You can argue his consistency is his greatness but he just never had that really amazing year.

 

 I have to disagree with that assessment. In Mats 2nd year in the league, as a 19 year old, he scored 47 goals and 114 pts with the Nordiques. By any standard, that is an awesome season, not even factoring in that he was a 19 year old kid. If he would have stayed with the Nords and kept playing with Sakic and the boys, I'm sure he would have racked up a few 130+ seasons.

[radoran]

@radoran   Admittedly, the Leafs had some decent squads in the early 2000's. Mats played the first part of his career on VERY crappy teams, and as time went on, they got more competitive. For me, the turn to respectability came when Potvin was replaced Cujo and then Balfour. He's not a star, so he does not qualify, but I call Potvin very overrated....and he was never ranked very high to begin with. The only goalie to embellish more saves in the NHL was another Leafs tender, Mike Palmateer...the Popcorn Kid.

 

(I will readily admit that my Finnophile tendencies colour my view point on Sundin - but I still maintain that he was overrated).

 

Well, he started out in Quebec. Leafs made the playoffs his first two years then missed twice and went on the run I described previously.

 

I don't think there's anyone who could say that the post-lockout Leafs were any good, but that's three seasons for ol' Mats. He missed the playoffs only 5 of 14 seasons in Tronno.

 

He then managed all of nine goals (5 on the PP) and 28 points (14 on the PP) in 41 games for the Canucks as the pivot between Demitra and Kesler. Did get a couple game winners and did have the "game winner" in a 3-0 playoff win.

[flyercanuck]

Good points about the turnaround in Chicago though Keith, Seabrook, Hossa and Quenneville had a lot to do with that as well. It's just my opinion that some fans overvalue the importance of these leadership qualities and the impact they actually have (see my Dustin Brown example) and in the specific case of Toews v. Crosby, make Toews out to be some kind Patton-esque captain who rallied the ramshackle Blackhawks to their two Cups...all to justify taking Toews ahead of Crosby if one were starting a team right now.  

 

 

Another thing could be Toews being the better of the two in the Olympic Gold medal runs for Canada...Crosby (even with The Golden Goal) was just another guy on those teams...Toews was the best player on one and one of on the other.

 

I still think Crosby, when healthy, is the best player in the NHL. For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to have another gear on TC.

 

I don't consider him overrated because I think he's the best player, barely, in the league. Some consider him to be up there with Gretzky, Orr, Howe, lemieux. In that case, hes overrated.

[jammer2]

Another thing could be Toews being the better of the two in the Olympic Gold medal runs for Canada...Crosby (even with The Golden Goal) was just another guy on those teams...Toews was the best player on one and one of on the other.

 

 

 Plus, there is "the shoot-out" for Team Canada's  World Jr. team....He took 6 straight shots and scored on 5 of them....or some ridiculous  number that is close......It was not only the sheer volume of shots and goals, he looked very nifty scoring them and showed unwavering confidence......a very compelling preview of what was to come.

[ruxpin]

it feels like your blaming it solely on Ovechkin, like he was the main reason they weren't doing very good. Remove ovechkin and washington capitals is an even more horrendous team, and btw Sidney crosby made the finals and won a stanley cup because he wasn't doing everything by himself. He had malkin who was b easting in the playoffs, MAF player pretty good and they just had a better team in general.

 

 

Keep Ovechkin on those teams and you have a strong regular season.

Keep Ovechkin on those teams in the playoffs and he disappears in big moments and you're one and done.  Yes, I am blaming him almost entirely.   I realize hockey is a team sport, but he may be one of the most invisible, counter-productive PPG playoff players I've ever seen.     And game 7s?  He might as well not have bothered going to the rink.  

 

That, and there's a graveyard full of coaches that will probably tell you what a crap he is to coach.  I mean, the Russian coach thought so much of him that in the game against the US they went like a kazillion rounds in the shootout and Ovechkin didn't get a sniff.   Overrated. 

[ruxpin]

 I have to disagree with that assessment. In Mats 2nd year in the league, as a 19 year old, he scored 47 goals and 114 pts with the Nordiques. By any standard, that is an awesome season, not even factoring in that he was a 19 year old kid. If he would have stayed with the Nords and kept playing with Sakic and the boys, I'm sure he would have racked up a few 130+ seasons.

 

If he'd have played with Jeff Carter, they'd both have had 60 goals.  

[ruxpin]

I'd say Alexandre Daigle or Alexandre Yashin. Both were suppose to be the next generation studs. Daigle couldn't cut it with a new Franchise in Ottawa and Yashin turned out to be a overpaid journeyman.

 

Good call on both.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin   Just to emphasize how very brutal Yahin's contract was.....they are *STILL* paying him 2.2 million this year!!  Fortunately for them, this is the final year they have to shell out hard cold cash for this stiff. A full 15 years after the deal was signed, and 3 full years after Alexi was retired, the end is finally in sight!!

 

 

  Off topic, but when you factor in the 2.2 that the Islanders save when Yashin disappears off the cap AND the fact Visnovsky and his 4.75 mill come off the books.....the Islanders will be in a strong cap situation going forward. That is very close to 7 mill coming off the cap....if the cap goes up by a few mill, the Islanders could be looking at 8-9 mill a year extra. This, on a team where they are set at goalie, defense and center. They could sign the best winger in free agency and not bat an eyelash!  Plus, they get Okposo back next year from the injury......they are building something special there.....and all of this will come in their first season in Brooklyn in the new arena. Should be real easy to sell that building out on a regular basis next year, very timely to have the team peaking just as the new arena is ready, a license to print money I tell ya. Never thought I'd say this, but I can't see anyone more deserving than Garth Snow as GM of the year, although Chevy for the Jets deserves consideration also.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin   Just to emphasize how very brutal Yahin's contract was.....they are *STILL* paying him 2.2 million this year!!  Fortunately for them, this is the final year they have to shell out hard cold cash for this stiff. A full 15 years after the deal was signed, and 3 full years after Alexi was retired, the end is finally in sight!!

 

 

  Off topic, but when you factor in the 2.2 that the Islanders save when Yashin disappears off the cap AND the fact Visnovsky and his 4.75 mill come off the books.....the Islanders will be in a strong cap situation going forward. That is very close to 7 mill coming off the cap....if the cap goes up by a few mill, the Islanders could be looking at 8-9 mill a year extra. This, on a team where they are set at goalie, defense and center. They could sign the best winger in free agency and not bat an eyelash!  Plus, they get Okposo back next year from the injury......they are building something special there.....and all of this will come in their first season in Brooklyn in the new arena. Should be real easy to sell that building out on a regular basis next year, very timely to have the team peaking just as the new arena is ready, a license to print money I tell ya. Never thought I'd say this, but I can't see anyone more deserving than Garth Snow as GM of the year, although Chevy for the Jets deserves consideration also.

 

Completely agree (with the parts I knew.  Holy Crap on the cap stuff I didn't!).  Okposo is injured?  I wouldn't have noticed.  

[ruxpin]

Jiri Dopita.

 

You're welcome, Flyers fans.

 

Bryzgalov?

[ruxpin]

Oh, and the most overrated goalie of all time:  Dominik Hasek.

[B21]

Another thing could be Toews being the better of the two in the Olympic Gold medal runs for Canada...Crosby (even with The Golden Goal) was just another guy on those teams...Toews was the best player on one and one of on the other.

 

All true but that has what to do with "leadership"? As has been posted multiple times - those leadership qualities that Toews apparently has (and Crosby apparently lacks) are what makes Toews sooooo much more valuable than Crosby.

 

I still think Crosby, when healthy, is the best player in the NHL. For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to have another gear on TC.

 

 

I guess that's enough for some to pick a guy who on average has 35-40 points less each season and who might have slightly better leadership skills.

 

I don't consider him overrated because I think he's the best player, barely, in the league. Some consider him to be up there with Gretzky, Orr, Howe, lemieux. In that case, hes overrated.

 

We're on the same page here. It's those 4 and then everyone else.

[B21]

Oh, and the most overrated goalie of all time:  Dominik Hasek.

 

Rick might kill you for that one.

[ruxpin]

Rick might kill you for that one.

 

Well, I didn't say Ryan Miller.  He's second.

[Podein25]

Well, I didn't say Ryan Miller.  He's second.

 

 

Miller is overrated. And weird looking.

[jammer2]

Oh, and the most overrated goalie of all time:  Dominik Hasek.

 

 

 

  Oh no you didn't .....somebody just got removed from Rick's Christmas Card list!!

[radoran]

Just looking at the numbers, Hasek finished with a 2.20 GAA and .922 SV% for his career.

 

He has the best SV% of any goalie in NHL history and his 2.20 GAA is the lowest of any goalie in the modern era.

 

When one looks at the playoffs, his GAA drops to 2.02 and his SV% goes up to .925.

 

"Overrated"?

 

We report - you decide.

 

[ruxpin]

Just looking at the numbers, Hasek finished with a 2.20 GAA and .922 SV% for his career.

He has the best SV% of any goalie in NHL history and his 2.20 GAA is the lowest of any goalie in the modern era.

When one looks at the playoffs, his GAA drops to 2.02 and his SV% goes up to .925.

"Overrated"?

We report - you decide.

Yeah, but Brian Williams told me about the time he and Hasek went tandem bike riding next to Lake Erie and they were hit by an Applebees bag filled with leftover halibut. Well, it might have been the bike in front of him; he wasn't really clear on this point. Anyway, they somehow ended up in the water and Hasek tried to pull Brian's pants off while flailing around like a Czech goalie with a rash.

That was the report I heard.

[Podein25]

Yeah, but Brian Williams told me about the time he and Hasek went tandem bike riding next to Lake Erie and they were hit by an Applebees bag filled with leftover halibut.  Well, it might have been the bike in front of him; he wasn't really clear on this point.  Anyway, they somehow ended up in the water and Hasek tried to pull Brian's pants off while flailing sround like a Czech goalie with a rash.   

 

That was the report I heard.

 

 

Post of the year! Ok, of the week at least.

 

I'm only surprised that you didn't work in reference to a 72' plasma and a Lexus.

[yave1964]

@ruxpin@radoran@jammer2

 

Miller has no place in this conversation. The caveat was Most overrated SUPERSTAR which certainly keeps him out of the conversation as he is only that in one Lumina driving Halibut eating fan from here.

 

  Does one consider Zetterberg a superstar? I don't, not quite and IMHO even watching him for his entire career I don't see him as one and if he is felt that way even with my Wings goggles I think he might be a tad overrated. He usually is in the top 5 or 6 in the league in total shots and finishes with 25 or so goals, he is okay in the dot, constantly bounced out by Babs to his more natural wing position and then back in again, he is damn good on defense but not great and has broken down like three years in a row not counting this one (so far). He does a lot well, but IMHO nothing great, and so I think he gets credit for a lot of the teams success that he does not deserve.I still love him, but he is not a superstar.

[mojo1917]

All true but that has what to do with "leadership"? As has been posted multiple times - those leadership qualities that Toews apparently has (and Crosby apparently lacks) are what makes Toews sooooo much more valuable than Crosby.

 

 

 

 

I guess that's enough for some to pick a guy who on average has 35-40 points less each season and who might have slightly better leadership skills.

 

 

 

 

We're on the same page here. It's those 4 and then everyone else.

I feel pretty certain that Crosby is properly rated. 

He's the best player in the game.

 

I don't know how, other than to say he's better than an all-time great, he could be overrated.

As for the leadership question , bone of contention , whatever, if his second line center sometimes winger would be more mature , there may be a different opinion there as well.  

When Sid gets too competitive and forgets his game , Malkin does nothing to help steady the ship. 

 

 to say Crosby is overrated is ridiculous.  

[jammer2]

Just looking at the numbers, Hasek finished with a 2.20 GAA and .922 SV% for his career.

 

He has the best SV% of any goalie in NHL history and his 2.20 GAA is the lowest of any goalie in the modern era.

 

When one looks at the playoffs, his GAA drops to 2.02 and his SV% goes up to .925.

 

"Overrated"?

 

We report - you decide.

 

 

 

 Hard to not TOTALLY agree with this. Should even have a cup on his resume. Overrated goalies....Potvin, Fuhr come to mind. If Grant did not play on a team that scored 8 goals a game, he never even wins a All-star birth, much less multiple Stanley Cups.