Hakstol = Rebuild

[King Knut]

@LegionOfDoom

i have never heard that G is a "problem" from anyone but Sidney Crosby, and even he seems okay with him after this year's world championships.

I get the underlying point to your post, no one is untouchable, I also don't see how the guy who breaks his stick over the cross bar after losses is "the problem".

There is no problem. It was a foolish and warrantless thing to suggest.

[OccamsRazor]

I don't know where all this G chatter is coming from other than our tendency as Philly Fans to turn on our best players for no apparent reason.

 

I agree but it so ludicrous right now this is the last i will even comment on this subject. He is the least of this Flyer club worries.

 

And i understand no one is untouchable but i am not wanting to move him.

[King Knut]

I quoted Briere48, but by no means I was directing my response to Briere48, but used his comment as a springboard to inflect my take on his accurate but misunderstood comment, the belief that Claude or Jake are untouchable is not really accurate as we see the path that Hexy is taking; he values developing hard working talented players that will buy into his/coaches system and if said player doesn't show a willingness to adapt, said player is going to get traded from their team, that is why Hexy is so adamant about picks and insistently states you HAVE to make them count, because it's not only their talent he's looking after but also their willingness to work hard, to be taught, teachable and unentitled.

I don't know if Briere48 was along the same line of thinking as I, but his comment is actually dead on and I agree with him. I just don't know if he agrees with the line of reasoning as I explained it.

I have no problems with G, and would love for him to stay on board, and everyone in the locker room repeatedly states he is committed to winning so, he definitely seems like the type of player you want on your roster, and I hope he doesn't loose sight of the position he was given at a young playing age as a captain. Though I think if Hexy was the GM that year, I don't think he would of anointed him this soon, but that's another horse in the stable that doesn't need whipping. So yes, G is wanted but if this next year any player gives the coach a hard time, I'm almost certain Hexy will think of moving the player rather than moving the coach. Once the coaching staff is in place, most of the focus will seem to point to player development and what contracted players still fit in their system.

This is an utterly ridiculous line of discussion.

If Giroux attempted to strangle Grossman in his sleep, that would have to be addressed too. Do we have a contingency for that as well?

Meanwhile back here in reality, I see no need tonorepRe for hypotheticals that have no basis in reality.

two years of a thick headed and ineffecfive Berube making dumb call after dumb call and did Giroux complain about him to the press or anyone else that we know about? What makes us suddenly think he's going to give a guy with an actual plan a bunch of ****?

I'll tell you one thing, If Hakstol ends up being as thick headed as Berube I hope someone does speak up to management.

Showing up and working hard is important, but that's not going to help VLC be a speedy two way forward. The coach has to use the guys he's got for what they're good for and then they work with each other to get as much of the rest as he can. It's ridiculous to think that buying into it and listening to the coach is all that's important. I mean completely ridiculous.

[King Knut]

That honestly wasn't directed at you. I thought YOU wrote a pretty good post. I apologize that it came across as directed at you; the very last line of your post was a nice springboard to take a snipe shot at someone else.

Sorry about that.

Nah, my post sounded like a stoned philosopher... I was just dressing up to being in a daze by the whole thing.

[murraycraven]

If Giroux attempted to strangle Grossman in his sleep, that would have to be addressed too. Do we have a contingency for that as well?

 

KK - maybe this is how we get some of our defense and other duds out of the way.   Once night Dirt Mitts plan choke-holds on Grossman, MacDud, VLC and RJ!  

[King Knut]

KK - maybe this is how we get some of our defense and other duds out of the way. Once night Dirt Mitts plan choke-holds on Grossman, MacDud, VLC and RJ!

A good captain will sacrifice anything to help his team win.

[murraycraven]

A good captain will sacrifice anything to help his team win.

 

 

LOL... well played!!!   

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Right now this probably the biggest positive for me. You can't expect this guy to come in and win a Stanley Cup this year or next year. This means that Hextall is really, truly committed to building the team patiently and that Snider is on board with that. To me, that's huge.

 

What worries me is that the exact same thing was said when Holmgren took over as GM. Now, I'm feeling more comfortable because it's clear that the Hakstol hire was Hextall's alone. Still, I want to see at least one more season in which Hextall is allowed to operate with complete autonomy over hockey decisions before I'll say that Snider is onboard. I think Snider is very astute and gets what Ron's trying to do. At the same time, if the Flyers achieve great success this upcoming year, will Snider get antsy and start directing Hextall what to do or will he allow Hextall to continue on the path that Ron has set down for the team.

[AJgoal]

What worries me is that the exact same thing was said when Holmgren took over as GM. Now, I'm feeling more comfortable because it's clear that the Hakstol hire was Hextall's alone. Still, I want to see at least one more season in which Hextall is allowed to operate with complete autonomy over hockey decisions before I'll say that Snider is onboard. I think Snider is very astute and gets what Ron's trying to do. At the same time, if the Flyers achieve great success this upcoming year, will Snider get antsy and start directing Hextall what to do or will he allow Hextall to continue on the path that Ron has set down for the team.

 

Or if the Flyers achieve not-so-great success, to the point of going backwards a bit? His comments towards the end of this past season about "How did a team that made the playoffs last year fall?" worry me should the team not show immediate improvement.

[The Quigster]

I was just reading an article on the new coach wanting "Speed" on his team. Good luck with that. Has anybody heard if Vinny is OK with the new coach?

[OccamsRazor]

I was just reading an article on the new coach wanting "Speed" on his team. Good luck with that. Has anybody heard if Vinny is OK with the new coach?

Who gives a f**k what Vinny thinks??? Not i.

[murraycraven]

Who gives a f**k what Vinny thinks??? Not i.

 

 

[briere48]

I agree but it so ludicrous right now this is the last i will even comment on this subject. He is the least of this Flyer club worries.

 

And i understand no one is untouchable but i am not wanting to move him.

 

i think anyone including giroux is not on board with the coach has to be moved because why keep them if they are not going to fit and play with the coach? that's a disaster waiting to happen, that's the reason the flyers are always getting new coaches and having inconsistency because the players are never on board.  

 

that's why they are so many bad teams because they keeping firing coaches and not changing the roster for their fit and buying in, it's the case with the flyers, they are always changing coaches and not changing the roster.  

[ruxpin]

Has anybody heard if Vinny is OK with the new coach?

 

Vinny is napping right now.  We'll tell him in October when he wakes to roll over.

[LegionOfDoom]

I'll tell you one thing, If Hakstol ends up being as thick headed as Berube I hope someone does speak up to management.

Showing up and working hard is important, but that's not going to help VLC be a speedy two way forward. The coach has to use the guys he's got for what they're good for and then they work with each other to get as much of the rest as he can. It's ridiculous to think that buying into it and listening to the coach is all that's important. I mean completely ridiculous.

 

Not sure how this Giroux example got misconstrued as speculation, that he was a bad seed, but the spirit of the discussion was how Briere48 mentioned Giroux amongst other possible players to be shipped out if they don't "fit" with the coach, and though that was a far fetched possibility, it's plausible if even Giroux starts to act up(which has never been the case; in fact when Pronger was on board he did have a verbal tussle with Giroux about playing better/with more seriousness or something to that affect when the media asked Pronger in the locker room; which at that time I thought a division in the locker room was going to start, but it looked like Giroux took Pronger's advise or at least respected his comment; nothing ever since that incedent ever came up again that I remember though), with the new coach, that he could get shipped out as well. I was just expounding on Briere48's statement, so that a framework to his reasoning could be construed as fathomable, as far fetched as that reality is to us at this point. When he said that, it brought back to memory how the Flyers got rid of Richards(their Captain) along with their leading goal scorer in Carter(top scorer in previous three seasons), just like that in one fell swoop.

History makes this somewhat a possibility, though for different reasons.

I think I defended Briere48's statement too much to make it end up on Eklunds rumur mill blog and thus the release of the Wild Horses.

 

 

 

What worries me is that the exact same thing was said when Holmgren took over as GM. Now, I'm feeling more comfortable because it's clear that the Hakstol hire was Hextall's alone. Still, I want to see at least one more season in which Hextall is allowed to operate with complete autonomy over hockey decisions before I'll say that Snider is onboard. I think Snider is very astute and gets what Ron's trying to do. At the same time, if the Flyers achieve great success this upcoming year, will Snider get antsy and start directing Hextall what to do or will he allow Hextall to continue on the path that Ron has set down for the team.

 

I think the media has been overstating Ronny's strategy of building a sustainable Cup team from within; Snider is trying to explain that Hextall also wants to make the playoffs now as well, Hextall's hallmark choices have shown his stamp on this organization, but in saying that Hextall WANTS to win in the now, while building a Cup franchise team, thus his comments on picking up Medvedev.

 

“We’re going to have to look into something, you mentioned that we have a logjam, and we’re going to have to look to move somebody. Obviously [with] Evgeni we felt that it was a real solid upgrade for us on defense so it was something that we couldn’t [let] go by, but yes something will have to give here.”

 

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=768395&navid=DL|PHI|home

 

-----------------------------------

 

 “We want to get better today,” said Hextall, the Flyers’ general manager. “We look at this as a guy, hopefully moving into the top of our D, not necessarily the one or two-hole. The kids are not going to come in and necessarily be a clutch piece if they come in.

“He upgrades our defense. Good size, skates well, moves the puck well. He’s a real solid two-way defenseman who can play either side of the ice.”

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/flyers-sign-khl-defenseman-evgeni-medvedev

 

That for a certainty is a welcoming strategy, that shows a balance of power and growth.

Be relevant while you will be revered.

[King Knut]

very thorough response.

The problem with the Richards and carter deals is that they were rebuild moments and provided the perfect opportunity to do a complete rebuild.

Which homer instead followed up with a bunch of win now moves.

If Giroux ever gets moved (and he probably will) it will be to unload his Contract.

[Mad Dog]

very thorough response.

The problem with the Richards and carter deals is that they were rebuild moments and provided the perfect opportunity to do a complete rebuild.

Which homer instead followed up with a bunch of win now moves.

If Giroux ever gets moved (and he probably will) it will be to unload his Contract.

 

Moving Giroux makes zero sense, no matter from what angle you approach it... and I am not saying that *you* are the one taking a position that Giroux should or should not be moved. Whether you are rebuilding or not (actually, especially if you are rebuilding), you need a core to build around.  Salary aside, Giroux is almost an ideal candidate of a player you want to build your team around.  Unloading his contract will not accomplish much other than the obvious and that is get a salary cap releif.  But beyond that, it doesn't solve much.

[King Knut]

Moving Giroux makes zero sense, no matter from what angle you approach it... and I am not saying that *you* are the one taking a position that Giroux should or should not be moved. Whether you are rebuilding or not (actually, especially if you are rebuilding), you need a core to build around. Salary aside, Giroux is almost an ideal candidate of a player you want to build your team around. Unloading his contract will not accomplish much other than the obvious and that is get a salary cap releif. But beyond that, it doesn't solve much.

I completely 100% whole heartedly agree.

When I say he could be moved for his contract I mean many years down the line when his contract is nearing its end. Hopefully he'll have three cups with us then and maybe will want to try for one more elsewhere while we rebuild again.

In the mean time I agree. Giroux is among the most versatile players in the league and is too good at too many things and is truly the beating heart of this team.

As captainship goes, the team goes as he does. The last three years prove that.

I wouldn't trade in for less than McDavid. Even that is questionable.

In a bunch of years trading his 8 million cap hit might be something that everyone will want. But that's a long way away IMHO.

[LegionOfDoom]

G might be moved when he's 38, other than that maybe 37.

Who knows, if he listens to the coach and improves on his game along with Jake and Cooter, Schenn, Read, Raffl, Belle, Zac, White, Simmer, Umby?, Vinny?, Vandevelde.*

Just imagine these guys icing up and down the lanes with purpose....with determination, WITH TENACITY!!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*no D was included, because that will be a given they will improve under the new coach who specifically already has a purpose and position for them to be focusing on.

[flyercanuck]

G might be moved when he's 38, other than that maybe 37.

Who knows, if he listens to the coach and improves on his game along with Jake and Cooter, Schenn, Read, Raffl, Belle, Zac, White, Simmer, Umby?, Vinny?, Vandevelde.*

Just imagine these guys icing up and down the lanes with purpose....with determination, WITH TENACITY!!!!!      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dare I say......truculence! 

[jammer2]

  Um, yeah....let's take the player with the most points in the NHL the past 4 years.....subtract him from a roster that is already challenged to score goals....um....no. Let's take G out of the equation and destroy the awesome chemistry he has built up with Vorachek....what in the world would possess anyone to even think this, much less say it in public?? Flyers are basically a one line team right now, so yeah....lets destroy that one line...LMAO!!

[jammer2]

What worries me is that the exact same thing was said when Holmgren took over as GM. Now, I'm feeling more comfortable because it's clear that the Hakstol hire was Hextall's alone. Still, I want to see at least one more season in which Hextall is allowed to operate with complete autonomy over hockey decisions before I'll say that Snider is onboard. I think Snider is very astute and gets what Ron's trying to do. At the same time, if the Flyers achieve great success this upcoming year, will Snider get antsy and start directing Hextall what to do or will he allow Hextall to continue on the path that Ron has set down for the team.

 

 I'm just totally speculating here, but I envisioned Hexy telling Snider "if you want me to do this job, the decisions will be mine, and mine alone, no interference whatsoever". Otherwise, Hexy would have walked, it's not like the Flyers were the only suitors. Seems to me Hexy was bargaining from a position of strength, so it's very plausible that he was allowed to dictate terms of his relationship with Ed. Flyer fans are not patient to begin with, but they are mustering all their strength to allow Hexy the space to fix this mess that Homer (and Ed) created. Any firing of Hexy would mean unprecedented backlash from the season ticket holders and Flyer fans in general. It would mean starting over again....something that I believe would be unacceptable from our fan bases perspective.

[ruxpin]

Dare I say......truculence!

Consciousness will be an improvement. Baby steps.