yave1964 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The NHL allowed Snider to free up cap space (tagging space) by allowing the Flyers to trade Pronger!If I could say F*+king joke I would.People will by sympathizes with poor owners when the next lockout happens!!!!Someone please tell me what is a cap circumvention, if this isn't?The Jackets did it last year, trading Nathan Horton and his ridiculous contract (his career is essentially over) to the Leafs for David Clarkson. The Flyers did it dumping Pronger's contract to the Coyotes, it is really a nothing deal, it allows the 'Yotes to get to the cap floor in the offseason and take their time making moves in the offseason rather than rush in and overpay for every mediocre free agent. Prongers contract was not hurting the Flyers at all, they neither gained anything by trading him nor lost anything by him now being a Coyote, at least on paper. The Leafs showed that a player who is on LTIR can still be a tradable commodity. The Bruins are looking into doing the same with Marc Savard who with his concussion issues will certainly never play again. They are looking for a trading partner to ship him off to. Someone like the Panthers might just bite. It gives a certain financial flexibility to put the contract on the books in the offseason and frankly, it is legal and I understand it from both sides. I understand your frustration with the lockout, believe me mine is as strong as yours. These type of contracts, these type of deals will likely be addressed at some point in time but for now, love you to death big guy but I see no harm and no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thanks for the non-answer. Very helpful.35+ contract STAYS with the team for the term of the contract. This trade is bad in so many ways.Arizona now has a contract to help them to get to the cap floor. Now you tell me your view of what just happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 The Jackets did it last year, trading Nathan Horton and his ridiculous contract (his career is essentially over) to the Leafs for David Clarkson. The Flyers did it dumping Pronger's contract to the Coyotes, it is really a nothing deal, it allows the 'Yotes to get to the cap floor in the offseason and take their time making moves in the offseason rather than rush in and overpay for every mediocre free agent. Prongers contract was not hurting the Flyers at all, they neither gained anything by trading him nor lost anything by him now being a Coyote, at least on paper. The Leafs showed that a player who is on LTIR can still be a tradable commodity. The Bruins are looking into doing the same with Marc Savard who with his concussion issues will certainly never play again. They are looking for a trading partner to ship him off to. Someone like the Panthers might just bite. It gives a certain financial flexibility to put the contract on the books in the offseason and frankly, it is legal and I understand it from both sides. I understand your frustration with the lockout, believe me mine is as strong as yours. These type of contracts, these type of deals will likely be addressed at some point in time but for now, love you to death big guy but I see no harm and no foul.By the over 35 contract it's NOT the same as what you quoted!!!Doesn't this sound fimilar? Contracts are out of control and we need cost certainty and we no other choice than to lock the players out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 35+ contract STAYS with the team for the term of the contract I already know that. This trade is bad in so many ways Bad for whom? Not for either of the teams involved in the trade. The Coyotes get no competitive advantage, they just get make the cap floor as required. The Flyers get a little more flexibility in the offseason since the LTIR cap relief doesn't apply then. But you can go over the cap by 10% anyway, so even there it's not a huge deal. Arizona now has a contract to help them to get to the cap floor So? I have no particular hate for the Coyotes. This trade isn't going to save the franchise. Now you tell me your view of what just happened? Pretty much what @yave1964 said in his post. Two teams made a trade to their mutual benefit. As a Flyers fan, by FAR the best thing about the deal is trading Grossman. The Flyers have a logjam of mediocre talent on their blue line and at least one d-man (and hopefully two) absolutely had to be dealt. So Hextall is serious about rebuilding the defense and that's a good thing for us. I could certainly have lived with Pronger on the Flyers payroll for two more years. It helps somewhat, but it's not all that big a deal. Probably benefits Arizona more than it helps the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Ok here's my take on this.As NHL hopes FANS have SHORT memories. We forget the speeches of greedy players and cost certainty. We forget owners offer contracts and players only sign them. We forget about lost seasons. We forget the owners will alway find ways to circumvent the very cap they wanted, no that they demanded. I guess the thought of hockey fan first is lost by the true homerism of the fan bases! Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 If the same BS happened on thee Wings I sure as f%^k wouldn't be jumping for joy over a circumventing contract.But I realize we have lost seasons to prevent this crap. But I guess I'm a different breed and that's why name is "Old School Hockey" and not "Flavor of the day". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Did Kipper sign a 35+ contract? Simple yes or no?Not how old he was when he retired! Jeez... You'll actually try to have an argument with a guy that agrees with you. You must be awesome to talk to at a BBQ..... You were complaining about cap circumvention.I agree. I don't like it.I mention a clear example which the league didn't even bother checking out despite Keenan out-and-out saying his club circumvented the cap with Kipper.Again: agreeing with you.You come back fixated on the player's age.Again: keep in mind that I agreed with you that I don't like cap circumvention. Serves me right for seeing your side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Imagine if Arizona buys the contract out and you get hit with the 35+ cap penalty (team who originally signed him gets the penalty)NYR offers 2nd round pick and a cap dump to Arizona in exchange for Pronger's contract. Buys out Pronger.Flyers with a 7.6 million cap recapture penalty next season. ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Jeez... You'll actually try to have an argument with a guy that agrees with you. You must be awesome to talk to at a BBQ.....You were complaining about cap circumvention.I agree. I don't like it.I mention a clear example which the league didn't even bother checking out despite Keenan out-and-out saying his club circumvented the cap with Kipper.Again: agreeing with you.You come back fixated on the player's age.Again: keep in mind that I agreed with you that I don't like cap circumvention.Serves me right for seeing your side of things.You see, this is why I find it easier to just be disagreeable from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Jeez... You'll actually try to have an argument with a guy that agrees with you. You must be awesome to talk to at a BBQ..... You were complaining about cap circumvention.I agree. I don't like it.I mention a clear example which the league didn't even bother checking out despite Keenan out-and-out saying his club circumvented the cap with Kipper.Again: agreeing with you.You come back fixated on the player's age.Again: keep in mind that I agreed with you that I don't like cap circumvention. Serves me right for seeing your side of things.Kipper and Pronger are NOT same situation. I'm trying to be as civil as possible without telling people they are clueless when it comes to the CBA and OWNER cap circumvention. Player don't circumvent the cap. Owners do. Player don't have lockouts for cost certainty. Owners do.So when the next lockout comes along who will you blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 NYR offers 2nd round pick and a cap dump to Arizona in exchange for Pronger's contract. Buys out Pronger.Flyers with a 7.6 million cap recapture penalty next season. ROFLNow you know that's not happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 You see, this is why I find it easier to just be disagreeable from the start.But harder to understand or admit the wrongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Interesting. A thread title that's self aware. Here I thought the title was about a subject, turns out it's about the thread itself. That's talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 And see Flyer in your profile! It's no wonder you see it as ok.Lighten up wouldya? Sheesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't really understand the motivation from a Arizona standpoint. I get that they have to reach the cap floor, but why not just sign a healthy player that can contribute to the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Because they have a lot of financial instability until the courts rule on the lawsuit against Glendale. Even if the court upholds the contract and forces Glendale to pay the Coyotes, they still don't gate a lot of cash. Paying 575k per year this year and next, while seeing a cap number of 4.94 million dollars, is a big deal for a team that was under the cap by some 24 million dollars. This year is a poor year for UFA talent, and Arizona's not going to be a big target for most of them. That makes overspending on a UFA to hit the floor a difficult proposition, as well. And making the cap floor is a really, really big deal for the Coyotes. If they don't, they lose their revenue share. Not good for a team that some estimates had losing $22 million last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You see, this is why I find it easier to just be disagreeable from the start. I have much to learn, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Kipper and Pronger are NOT same situation. I'm trying to be as civil as possible without telling people they are clueless when it comes to the CBA and OWNER cap circumvention. Player don't circumvent the cap. Owners do. Player don't have lockouts for cost certainty. Owners do.So when the next lockout comes along who will you blame? Have good evening, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I have much to learn, apparently.Learn that Snider was one of the biggest reasons why had two major lockouts for cost certainty. And HE circumvented the very system he wanted, no demanded be put in place!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 So you are obviously ok with previous two lockouts and the next one? And Snider will be screaming poor!!! Only a homer would think this is a good move!!!I hardly think the combined Horton (remember him?) and Pronger situations will lead to the next lockout. The NHL acknowledged this wasn't a normal situation by the fact that they hired him. Relax a bit. Your just pissed because you don't like the Flyers and they finally got rid of Prongers cap hit. Prongers last 2 years will be over before Quebec Nordiques.... I mean the Coyotes even have to worry about "buying him out"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 But I guess I'm a different breed and that's why name is "Old School Hockey" and not "Flavor of the day" Actually, if your "Old School Hockey" then.... there wouldn't even be a salary cap.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Actually, if your "Old School Hockey" then.... there wouldn't even be a salary cap.... And there would only be 6 teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Learn that Snider was one of the biggest reasons why had two major lockouts for cost certainty. And HE circumvented the very system he wanted, no demanded be put in place!!!! He (Flyers) did not circumvent the cap. Pronger's contract and trade were APPROVED BY THE LEAGUE. What part of that is circumventing the cap? Because you don't like it doesn't mean it is circumventing the cap!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I hardly think the combined Horton (remember him?) and Pronger situations will lead to the next lockout. The NHL acknowledged this wasn't a normal situation by the fact that they hired him. Relax a bit. Your just pissed because you don't like the Flyers and they finally got rid of Prongers cap hit. Prongers last 2 years will be over before Quebec Nordiques.... I mean the Coyotes even have to worry about "buying him out"...My point has NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING to do with the Flyers as a team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It has to do with one of the biggest reasons why we have had two major lockouts! Ed Snider.You are exactly what the NHL loves!!! Fans who forgot what really happened'By the way what reason do I have to dislike the Flyers? The Wings have yet to lose to the Flyers in BIG games. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The best part is if it was old school then Snider would still win since he has a ton of money, like Pegula and jacobs and so on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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