Luke Schenn: Stay or go?

[AJgoal]

 

Meltzer had a really good write up on Luke a few days ago: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=70112&blogger_id=45

 

Luke is probably the most tradeable piece on the Flyers blueline right now, given age, contract, and perceived value to the team (Teams would probably want Streit, but I'm not sure the Flyers want to part with him). So my question is, do you want to see the Flyers keep him, or trade him going into the season? As Meltzer states, he does do several things well. He is not a very good skater, but when he plays within himself, he can be an effective defenseman. He makes a good first pass, and is very effective physically and as a shot blocker. He and MDZ seemed pretty effective as a pairing. I'd prefer to keep him at least until the deadline and see if Hakstol can do anything with him. 

[OccamsRazor]

Meltzer had a really good write up on Luke a few days ago: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=70112&blogger_id=45

 

Luke is probably the most tradeable piece on the Flyers blueline right now, given age, contract, and perceived value to the team (Teams would probably want Streit, but I'm not sure the Flyers want to part with him). So my question is, do you want to see the Flyers keep him, or trade him going into the season? As Meltzer states, he does do several things well. He is not a very good skater, but when he plays within himself, he can be an effective defenseman. He makes a good first pass, and is very effective physically and as a shot blocker. He and MDZ seemed pretty effective as a pairing. I'd prefer to keep him at least until the deadline and see if Hakstol can do anything with him.

I would trade him for a 2nd round pick...anything less i'd revisit this at the deadline...i'd just waive Manning and go from there...if broken down Kimmo is worth 2 2nds and Zac can net a 3rd...no reason why Luke should be worth a 2nd and maybe even anoher pick.

[radoran]

Here's the "Flyer" natur of it all...

Take a second overall 30 goal scoring left wing draft pick, turn him into a second pair defenseman and trade that guy for a 2nd rounder...

#winning

[idahophilly]

That's what they may end up having to do.  I'd like to wait and see what Hakstol can do with him but as I stated elsewhere the need to seriously look at how to sprinkle in the prospect d-men over the next 2-3 years may dictate jettisoning Schenn to clear a spot and that cap space would be nice. 

[idahophilly]

I just got off of generalfanager: Every time I look at the salaries going forward it's McDonalds that jumps out. It makes you wanna puke. 5 million for 5 more seasons! Just about everyone else is done within the next 1-2 years so no doubt the defense will be completely overhauled by this time 2 yrs from now but that McDud contract just sticks out like a mangled sore thumb. I know this topic was about Schenn but just pointing out the obvious....again....

[intheslot]

I'd trade him and Sterit open up two spots for younger kids  to play ... 

[flyerfan2]

Why on earth would the flyers get rid of a young, hard hitting, tough, stay at home defenseman?

Luke may not be the most gifted of skaters, however is isn't as bad as some would suggest.

Believe it or not good hard hitting , tough, clear the front of the net , shot blocking Dmen are an asset not a liability.

 

You cannot build a strong winning team without good defensive players that look after their own end of the rink first and foremost.

Yes everyone loves a puck caring offensively gifted Dman that puts up points and jumps up into the rush to create offensive chances, however your entire defense cannot be built on this type of Dman.

Teams need the Lukes of the game that look after their end of the rink first and foremost.

 

Lets not forget Luke is still young and developing , and probably not far off from where guy's like Brooks Orpik, Mark Stuart,  Robyn Regehr, Josh, gorges and so on were at in terms of development at his age.

 

Trading is not always the best option, especially for draft picks and unproven players, over what you already have in a known player.

[Lunatic]

I'd wait to see what enfolds at training camp. The Flyers are no longer in cap purgatory. If one of the young defenseman earns a place, then I would look to trade one or two of our defensemen. Otherwise, let Hakstal see what he can make of our defensemen. I think that our defense will look a lot better under the new coach.

[terp]

I think there is a good chance we get nothing for him and he leaves after next season as a UFA. I don't see them moving him because he's very physical and we don't have a lot of that. I also see us as being in the playoff race until late, so don't see him getting moved at the deadline. I don't see them extending him either.

In his defence, and excuse the bad pun, he didn't trade himself for van Riemsdyk. Also not sure I would have wanted JvR here the way he was coming along. He might be a third liner still but for the change of scenery. Maybe Babcock can get the most out of him and I'm kind of betting he will.

[OccamsRazor]

Well what would be worse than trading JVR for Luke and then trading Luke for a 2nd???

Getting nothing for Luke and just letting him walk....

[terp]

Here's what could be worse: making a second mistake in a vain attempt to fix something that is water under the bridge. It doesn't matter that we acquired Luke straight up for JvR. What matters is what's the best use of the asset we have. if that's a second, so be it.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

I'm prolly in the minority here but I say keep him. I think Berube destroyed the young players on this team. Destroyed their confidence and set them

Back a year in development. Allow luke to play his game and work within his abilities. He does have them. He was a bright spot in stretches here when the rest of the team played like crap like when he first got here.

[RJ8812]

I'd trade him and Sterit open up two spots for younger kids  to play ... 

 

no...you can't have too many young defenseman playing, especially since that would mean they would have to take on a larger role than what you would want

[doom88]

I'd keep him, but he's got to show me more this season.

[OccamsRazor]

I'd keep him, but he's got to show me more this season.

One thing that gives him alot of value is he is the only righthand shot they had one the blueline last year and this year he is again...but if Radko makes the team it will be another one.

Even of the Fab 5...Provo, Sanheim, Morin, Ghost and Hagg...all left hand shots.

The only kids in the system who are righthanded is Reece and Friedman.

So Luke has that going for him and he is still relatively young.

If he could only increase his foot speed he'd be that more valuable.

[doom88]

One thing that gives him alot of value is he is the only righthand shot they had one the blueline last year and this year he is again...but if Radko makes the team it will be another one.

Even of the Fab 5...Provo, Sanheim, Morin, Ghost and Hagg...all left hand shots.

The only kids in the system who are righthanded is Reece and Friedman.

So Luke has that going for him and he is still relatively young.

If he could only increase his foot speed he'd be that more valuable.

I'm okay with the foot speed, as I think he's faster than Grossman was. I want incrementally better decisions away from the puck from Luke.

If the forwards play better in the neutral zone, making breakout passing lanes and such, I think all team defenseman will look significantly improved

[J0e Th0rnton]

One thing that gives him alot of value is he is the only righthand shot they had one the blueline last year and this year he is again...but if Radko makes the team it will be another one.

Even of the Fab 5...Provo, Sanheim, Morin, Ghost and Hagg...all left hand shots.

The only kids in the system who are righthanded is Reece and Friedman.

So Luke has that going for him and he is still relatively young.

If he could only increase his foot speed he'd be that more valuable.

It is very hard to improve skating by the quarter century mark. By then, muscle memory and previous motor learning is too ingrained. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

 

Quite frankly, he is also not the smartest defenseman. But that could be coaching as well.

[brelic]

It is very hard to improve skating by the quarter century mark. By then, muscle memory and previous motor learning is too ingrained. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

 

Quite frankly, he is also not the smartest defenseman. But that could be coaching as well.

 

Totally conjecture on my part, but Brayden doesn't seem to be the brightest player either. Might run in the family.

[doom88]

Totally conjecture on my part, but Brayden doesn't seem to be the brightest player either. Might run in the family.

Blame Berube, surprisingly works in both cases.

[murraycraven]

Totally conjecture on my part, but Brayden doesn't seem to be the brightest player either. Might run in the family.

 

 

agreed.... and this was before Berube was around.   

[radoran]

So they had to sign MacDonald to a deal because they didn't want to waste the assets used to acquire him, but we shouldn't worry about the assets used to acquire Schenn?

 

I know, I know - the JVR grapes were probably sour because this organization consistently picks guys who are underachievers and they can't motivate players to improve. Not like the Maple Leafs can. Or something. ()

 

And, sure, getting something is better than nothing but it's deals like this that have hamstrung this organization since before they turned Vaclav Prospal and The Pick That Became Danny Briere into Adam Burt (but, hey, they "got something" for it!).

 

I think at this point they'd be lucky to get a 2nd for LSchenn (could change as the deadline approaches but who needs Schenn at this point?) and I think they'd also hope to get more for him (either straight up or in a package deal).

 

On another note, assuming LSchenn stays for the sake of discussion - what length and number do they sign him to? "In a world" where MacDonald makes $5M and Jeff Petry is $5.5M - what does Schenn get? Can the Flyers afford (capwise) to re-sign him and should they want to?

 

Moreover, does Schenn force the issue by not extending in-season?

 

Now, let's have some fun - Schenn to Chicago for Trevor van Riemsdyk. Discuss.

[J0e Th0rnton]

So they had to sign MacDonald to a deal because they didn't want to waste the assets used to acquire him, but we shouldn't worry about the assets used to acquire Schenn?

 

I know, I know - the JVR grapes were probably sour because this organization consistently picks guys who are underachievers and they can't motivate players to improve. Not like the Maple Leafs can. Or something. ( )

 

And, sure, getting something is better than nothing but it's deals like this that have hamstrung this organization since before they turned Vaclav Prospal and The Pick That Became Danny Briere into Adam Burt (but, hey, they "got something" for it!).

 

I think at this point they'd be lucky to get a 2nd for LSchenn (could change as the deadline approaches but who needs Schenn at this point?) and I think they'd also hope to get more for him (either straight up or in a package deal).

 

On another note, assuming LSchenn stays for the sake of discussion - what length and number do they sign him to? "In a world" where MacDonald makes $5M and Jeff Petry is $5.5M - what does Schenn get? Can the Flyers afford (capwise) to re-sign him and should they want to?

 

Moreover, does Schenn force the issue by not extending in-season?

 

Now, let's have some fun - Schenn to Chicago for Trevor van Riemsdyk. Discuss.

In fairness, JVR on the leafs was allowed to play no backchecking, like the rest of his line lol

[J0e Th0rnton]

So they had to sign MacDonald to a deal because they didn't want to waste the assets used to acquire him, but we shouldn't worry about the assets used to acquire Schenn?

 

I know, I know - the JVR grapes were probably sour because this organization consistently picks guys who are underachievers and they can't motivate players to improve. Not like the Maple Leafs can. Or something. ( )

 

And, sure, getting something is better than nothing but it's deals like this that have hamstrung this organization since before they turned Vaclav Prospal and The Pick That Became Danny Briere into Adam Burt (but, hey, they "got something" for it!).

 

I think at this point they'd be lucky to get a 2nd for LSchenn (could change as the deadline approaches but who needs Schenn at this point?) and I think they'd also hope to get more for him (either straight up or in a package deal).

 

On another note, assuming LSchenn stays for the sake of discussion - what length and number do they sign him to? "In a world" where MacDonald makes $5M and Jeff Petry is $5.5M - what does Schenn get? Can the Flyers afford (capwise) to re-sign him and should they want to?

 

Moreover, does Schenn force the issue by not extending in-season?

 

Now, let's have some fun - Schenn to Chicago for Trevor van Riemsdyk. Discuss.

Petry deserves his money. He was unfairly treated in Edmonton, but still, astute fans could see he was their best Dman.

 

Montreal fans were over the moon for him after seeing his effect on their 2nd PP unit and his great playoff performance.

 

I know near 6 million SOUNDS like a lot, but 3 years ago, it would have been 4.5 million. Cap inflation.

 

I would have paid him that on the sharks.

 

Schenn is nowhere near as good as Petry, so don't worry lol

Mcdud on the other hand............Yeah, might drive the price up

 

Vlasic's contract is like the gift taht keeps on giving for the Sharks. They tell everyoe during negotiations "Do you think you deserve Vlasic money?"

[doom88]

Petry deserves his money. He was unfairly treated in Edmonton, but still, astute fans could see he was their best Dman.

Montreal fans were over the moon for him after seeing his effect on their 2nd PP unit and his great playoff performance.

I know near 6 million SOUNDS like a lot, but 3 years ago, it would have been 4.5 million. Cap inflation.

I would have paid him that on the sharks.

Schenn is nowhere near as good as Petry, so don't worry lol

Mcdud on the other hand............Yeah, might drive the price up

Vlasic's contract is like the gift taht keeps on giving for the Sharks. They tell everyoe during negotiations "Do you think you deserve Vlasic money?"

Agreed on cap inflation. I think that's an underrated factor in evaluating some contracts. Normailized down to % of cap ceiling, I wonder how bad some of these contracts (Hartnell comes to mind) look on the back half.

[radoran]

He was unfairly treated in Edmonton, but still, astute fans could see he was their best Dman.

 

I can see Luke Schenn's agent replacing "Edmonton" with "Philadelphia" in that sentence (not that I would agree with it...)

 

The point is, what is Schenn looking for in a new contract? He's on the cap at $3.6M this season.

 

Montreal fans were over the moon for him after seeing his effect on their 2nd PP unit and his great playoff performance.

 

Petry had zero power play points for Montreal last regular season. Zero. He had one (1) in 12 playoff games (3 total points).

 

Over. The. Moon. 

 

Schenn is nowhere near as good as Petry, so don't worry lol

 

He's got .226 points per game in his career. Petry has about .25 ppg. Hits are 2.7 per game for Schenn, 1.94 for Petry. 1.4 blocks per game for Schenn, 1.59 for Petry.

 

If I'm Schenn's agent, Petry's deal is going to be a part of the conversation. MacDonald's deal is the baseline.