Yawn

[icehole]

@icehole

So the LA Kings would have won a cup, then got the first pick in the draft, then won a cup, then got the 2nd pick in the draft.

Ya, that'd work great.

Did I explain it wrong or did you read it wrong? The first pick goes to the 17th team. 2nd pick goes to 18th team. Champion still gets 30th pick.

[PhilsFanDrew]

Yes that well be the case as Rad pointed out this morning G's points have been on a decline for the past 4 years.....

 

Points have been down in the NHL as a whole the past 4 years as well so I don't think its necessarily just Giroux tailing off.  Last year Jamie Benn led the league with 87 points.  The year before that (2013-14) there was only one player to have 100+ points (Crosby) and the next closest in points wasn't even at 90 pts.    

[murraycraven]

Wy are people complaining? This is the same team as last year... until the bums (RJ,VLC,Schenn,Manning, etc...) are flushed from Hextalls toilet nothing will change.

TRANSITION year...

[aziz]

Yep just 2 games ago they have a wild card spot. And just like that down to 13..

 

lol, do you not see the moral of that story?  we are 10 games in.  2 games can swing everything.  two points out of 4th in the conference, 4 points out of 2nd, and a game in hand on most teams in front of them.

 

we all know this is not the greatest team ever, but no one in the league is right now, except montreal.  who have now lost two in a row.  i understand it is a big ask to let the season play out a little bit before prognosticating on things 6+ months from now, but really.

[aziz]

I think people place too much importance in winning a championship. A NHL or NBA finals series is only 7 games at the most. Id rather have consistant fun hockey for 82+ games each year than tank for 5 years to one day win a championship.

 

this.  times a million.

 

every hockey season spans 6.5 months, at a minimum.  make the playoffs and last for a little bit, and that becomes 8 months or so.

 

a championship is won, there is a celebration, everyone buys new hats, and within a handful of days, we get to the draft.  and then free agency.  and then camp.  and then the new season.  there is about a 1 week period where the cup winners and their fans really get to roll around in it.  and then the whole thing starts again, and last season's outcome means nothing.

 

and people want to trade ~5 x 8 months of no fun to watch at all, for a week's worth of yelling, "we won".  and a new hat.

 

would LOVE to see the flyers win another cup, hope it happens soon.  but don't make being a fan of the team complete misery for years so i can have that single passing moment.  this game is entertainment.  its point is to give me something to enjoy every year for months at a run.  it isn't something we're supposed to suffer through so we can have a really happy week years down the road, maybe.

[OccamsRazor]

 i understand it is a big ask to let the season play out a little bit before prognosticating on things 6+ months from now, but really.

 

I'm not sure if this was intended for me but where did i prognosticate anything 6 months from now?

 

We were commenting on the game last night or more or less the last two less than inspiring games. Which were by the way horrible and out played by what some may say lesser tiered teams...which is arguable.

 

So slow your roll it's a discussion board fans are allowed to do that. You don't have to agree but you also don't have to read. So calm down.

 

But at the same time us fans don't have to be happy with the same crap effort we've saw the last two games it's what this place is for. 

[icehole]

Plus, hockey isnt a sport that you "need" to be bad forever to compete. Detroit seems to always be there...they havent had a high pick in forever. Montreal struggled for a little but they werent a last place team.

As a matter of fact, the team with the most "stars" rarely wins everything. It's all about players having a role and being well coached. A guy who scored a game 7 finals GWG is now in the minors. He wasnt great but he had a role and won a cup. That cup winning team lost a few role players and cant seem to have the same magic again.

[OccamsRazor]

 there is about a 1 week period where the cup winners and their fans really get to roll around in it.

 

I'll tell you what that is like when i get to feel it but sorry since i've been a Flyers i haven't known that so for me it has always been on the outside looking in.

 

And if you're not trying to win it all then that's the problem from the 1st place. Winning it all is the only thing that matters...it's what makes Champions!

 

The Steelers didn't win 6 titles going in with the mind set "they just want to compete!"

 

No one is playing or competing in sports aiming for 2nd place...and if they are maybe they need to find another profession.

 

So i have to disagree that statement can't be furthest from the truth.

[aziz]

I'm not sure if this was intended for me but where did i prognosticate anything 6 months from now?

 

"And just like that down to 13....they need to get their schitt in gear before they fall behind i don't see Hexy standing pat and watching the playoff slip away...."

 

 

So slow your roll it's a discussion board fans are allowed to do that.

 

 

of course you are, i never said you couldn't.  the thread began as dedicated to the idea that after two less-than-great games, people are starting to look to next season, and debating what draft pick the team is going to get.  i'm sorry for singling your post out, but it was the one that mentioned the numbers that should make it obvious to everyone there is a ton of hockey still to be played.  if two games can slide you from 7th to 13th, it is way too early in the season to predict much of anything at all.  anaheim has one win, and crosby has one goal.  everything is going to end up entirely different than it is right now.

 

your post wasn't the most jumping-off-bridges (because there is literally one about jumping off bridges), it was the numbers that caught my eye as meaning something way way other than what was being suggested.  i'm sorry if it was more pointed than i intended.  was trying to shoot at the thread in general.

[OccamsRazor]

"And just like that down to 13....they need to get their schitt in gear before they fall behind i don't see Hexy standing pat and watching the playoff slip away...."

 

I mentioned this because i know it to be true i don't expect him to stand pat. And if guys don't want to see friends shipped out there better get it together.

 

 if two games can slide you from 7th to 13th, it is way too early in the season to predict much of anything at all.

 

Right and it was why i brought it up 2 games in october are just as important as two games in march when they are fighting for a playoff spot. I don't want them to squander points. Unlike some i am the one who thinks they can make the playoffs....i'm the one (a fool maybe) who would rather have some playoffs than another draft to look forward to.

 

So i just want the to play better...period. Will they i'm not sure. Part of me wants to say yeah and part of me wants to say it can even get worse. I'm not even going to try to predict anything with this jekyll and hyde bunch...this isn't my 1st rodeo here.

[aziz]

 

 

And if you're not trying to win it all then that's the problem from the 1st place. 

 

 

 

i agree.  it is the trying, in the form of entertaining me 82 times a year, that is important.

 

Winning it all is the only thing that matters...it's what makes Champions!

 

psst, if the flyers win, you won't be a champion.  there is no reason for a fan to take the athlete's point of view/motivation.  we are watching this game for entirely different reasons than they are playing it.

 

No one is playing or competing in sports aiming for 2nd place...and if they are maybe they need to find another profession.

 

again, i agree.  for the participating athletes.  you are not a participating athlete.  you are a fan.  you will not have your name inscribed on the cup, you will not be in history books, you will not get a cash bonus for a cup win, your next contract will not be influenced by your post season performance.  you are a fan.  you are here, you care, because you enjoy watching this game and being a fan of this team.  if this whole thing has become something other than that for you, if you are somehow personally wrapped up to the point that your life would be profoundly changed for the long term should your favorite team win a championship, well, that's ok.  your thing.  for me, i just enjoy watching the game, and want my favorite team to try hard every year to win a cup.  more importantly, i want to turn on the TV at 7:00 and enjoy what i watch for the next 2 1/2 hours, three or four times a week, 82 times per season.  and hopefully several more after that.

 

if the plan involves me hating every second of those 82 2.5 hour spans for years and years, so i can maybe jump up and down for a few days eventually, no thanks.

[aziz]

I mentioned this because i know it to be true i don't expect him to stand pat. And if guys don't want to see friends shipped out there better get it together.

 

 

 

 

Right and it was why i brought it up 2 games in october are just as important as two games in march when they are fighting for a playoff spot. I don't want them to squander points. Unlike some i am the one who thinks they can make the playoffs....i'm the one (a fool maybe) who would rather have some playoffs than another draft to look forward to.

 

So i just want the to play better...period. Will they i'm not sure. Part of me wants to say yeah and part of me wants to say it can even get worse. I'm not even going to try to predict anything with this jekyll and hyde bunch...this isn't my 1st rodeo here.

 

 

ok, great post, with you 100% on it.  sorry for the confusion.

[OccamsRazor]

 it is the trying, in the form of entertaining me 82 times a year, that is important.

 

It's all i want they do that everything else will fall into place.

 

again, i agree.  for the participating athletes.  you are not a participating athlete.  you are a fan.  you will not have your name inscribed on the cup, you will not be in history books, you will not get a cash bonus for a cup win, your next contract will not be influenced by your post season performance.  you are a fan.  you are here, you care, because you enjoy watching this game and being a fan of this team.

 

Yes it's all i want. And just because i'm a fan doesn't mean you can't be happy and enjoy watching these guys hoist the Cup. I love the sport but am a Flyer fans and want to see that before i die. The same reason it was bittersweet to see LA and Gagne and gang win their 1st Cup. Because i care. It's what being a fan is all about. You don't have to be the player in the game to appreciate all this...it's what watching sports is all about.

[WordsOfWisdom]

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

I'm bored with this team already.  Wake me up the draft.

 

I just became a new Flyers fan in the past 24 hours because I wanted to mix things up a bit and I liked the black and orange color scheme. I think it has already run its course though and I need another new team to root for.      

[swflyers28]

[jammer2]

  After seeing just how pitiful this squad is, I've started watching London Knights games, getting a read on Max Jones and Matthew Tkachuk, who by all accounts will go from 4-6 range in this next draft....Spits Logan Brown may break into the top 10 also....this team is THAT bad.

[flyercanuck]

@jammer2

 

I don't know why anyone thought they'd be any different. It's basically the same team that finished 23rd in the league last year. Only older.

[murraycraven]

@jammer2

I don't know why anyone thought they'd be any different. It's basically the same team that finished 23rd in the league last year. Only older.

Exactly what I have been saying FC. For Christ Sake this is not rocket science folks. They are a slow and a seriously flawed team. Without Cooter this teams defensive neutral play has gone down. Belle speed is missing from the lineup which hurts and playing VLC is a joke.

MDZ has been terrible the past 2 games and the penalties are piling up. It is the same as last year. RJ might be a bit faster but he still is terrible, Simmonds is MIA, Jake has been MIA all year and the dense is total crap outside of MDVD. Streit is leading the team in points. That should tell you how anemic this offense is...

Until moves are made this team is stuck in neutral. Is it time for some major moves? I guess we will find out...

[pilldoc]

@jammer2

 

I don't know why anyone thought they'd be any different. It's basically the same team that finished 23rd in the league last year. Only older.

 

 

Exactly what I have been saying FC. For Christ Sake this is not rocket science folks. They are a slow and a seriously flawed team. Without Cooter this teams defensive neutral play has gone down. Belle speed is missing from the lineup which hurts and playing VLC is a joke.

MDZ has been terrible the past 2 games and the penalties are piling up. It is the same as last year. RJ might be a bit faster but he still is terrible, Simmonds is MIA, Jake has been MIA all year and the dense is total crap outside of MDVD. Streit is leading the team in points. That should tell you how anemic this offense is...

Until moves are made this team is stuck in neutral. Is it time for some major moves? I guess we will find out...

Totally in the same camp with you guys.  Been saying this thought from the very beginning also.  Pretty much the same team minus the bone head penalties from the player formally know as Zac, how many dumb penalties can I commit, Rinaldo.  Folks. barring any major shakeup, what you see is what we are gonna get. 

[OccamsRazor]

Until moves are made this team is stuck in neutral. Is it time for some major moves? I guess we will find out...

 

I guess there, you and FC basically said there is no need to expect improvement from this bunch so there is no other thing that is going to change their fate.

 

You've added MDV, Gudas, Gagner, Laughton and subtracted Mcdud (thank you Heyzuz) the HC and are getting the same results basically. What else would you do?

 

You basically have two ways to look at it. Remain patient and hope this group turns it around.

 

Or expedite the moves to try and jump start this season while there is a lot left to play for.

 

I'm not even going to guess what is rolling around in Hexy's head....i would say at most something goes down if they are still losing at the end of this road trip.

[OccamsRazor]

Is it time for some major moves?

 

Well there is one minor move you could do right now that would allow you to alter the roster when need be with callups and i would just go ahead and do it.

 

That would be waiving Manning. I don't think anyone would claim him and even if they did you really won't miss him.

 

But with this one move it would allow you multiple options: You could do the following callup Cousins.

 

Or Ghost. Or Alt. Or Morin. Or Straka or you get my point. And with the forward that was called up you could sit Vinny's ass.

 

You would have the freedom you need to change your roster slightly by adding a youngster to try and see if it could spark something.

 

It would be something i try before trading away some folks.

[RonJeremy]

 

 

Howie said....My deep concern is that Voracek and G may be at the end of their primes by the time we build a good surrounding cast.  

 

Howie is absolutely right, by the time we rebuild ,Giroux and Voracek are  on a down swing  . None of our top defensive prospects are NHL ready, and even if they were, its another 2-3 years before they gain the experience to be trusted in key situations We have a couple of small skilled forwards  in the juniors like, Kubel and,  Konecny  ,who is our top  prospect and he  is 2-3 years away. We have Cousins and Leier in the AHL, but they are third liners, and we don't have much else. As I see it ,the only "potential" star forward is Konency . We are really lacking some big sized skill guys. So its a good 4-5 years before our prospects are contributing on a consistent basis. Do we really think a bunch of 21-2 year olds are gonna come in and take over the leadership and play great night after night? Look at how long we are waiting for B Schenn to be a factor, look how many years it took for Voracek to come around. We have some good prospects but we didnt draft  Ray Bourque and Mike Bossy, guys who can step in and dominate immediately. We certainly need several more skilled forwards and specifically a power left wing with size and skating ability. We hope all our dmen pan out, but there may be a lemon in there and its highly unlikely all reach their potential. So we still have a long road ahead. I would hope for a horrible season this year and a top 5 pick and hopefully we get a power left wing. I would also look to see what teams would offer for Giroux and Voracek. We can easily get 2 top prospects and a first rounder for each guy. That's moving 2 huge salaries and getting 6 players in return for 2. That's the only way to build  team quick. I'm not saying we trade anyone just for the sake of it, but if some team was willing to give us some top young talent I would certainly listen. AND when I say top prospect I'm talking blue chip prospects like Nick Ritchie, Josh Morissey, Michael Del Colle, ...guys of that caliber...for example.

[sarsippius]

@jammer2

I don't know why anyone thought they'd be any different. It's basically the same team that finished 23rd in the league last year. Only older.

Exactly. I understand folks want to see a winning team, but wanting it doesn't erase the all prior GM's mistakes. This year, like last year, is about the build. And honestly it's only because of my advancing age that I can start to take that kind of long view.

[RJ8812]

Exactly. I understand folks want to see a winning team, but wanting it doesn't erase the all prior GM's mistakes. This year, like last year, is about the build. And honestly it's only because of my advancing age that I can start to take that kind of long view.

 

To be honest, I called for a rebuild the moment Pronger's career was ended. We lost our franchise defenseman with no young guy in the pipeline to replace him. Especially after we traded Carter and Richards. More players should have followed them that season (Hartnell, Briere, Timonen, Carle, Coburn) and Bryz obviously should never have been signed.