ScottM Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I've just been looking at Sidney Crosby's stats, and while I knew he has been struggling, I didn't realize just how deep the problems are. That he's struggling offensively is well documented, but since the team got hot for a while, it didn't really seem to matter, and honestly, I just assumed the rest of his play had been decent. Of course, that said, I haven't seen a lot of the Penguins games this year, so I had no way to give him the eye test. So, when I looked at his stats in more detail, I was honestly stunned. There's the offensive aspect of it, where he has just nine points in 17 games. That pace would give him only 43 points over 82 games. His 0.53 ppg is less than half of the worst mark of his career. Then, I took a look at his +/- rating. He's a -8, which is the third worst mark on the team. That led me to take a look at his Corsi and Fenwick percentages. He has a 47.5% Corsi rating and a 47.6% Fenwick rating. All in all, he's right at his career average of 52.8% on faceoffs this season, but in his last five games, he has failed to break 50%. Prior to that stretch, he had failed to break that mark only three times in twelve games. Is that a sign of trouble? I promise I'm not trying to give Pens fans any grief here, but when I look at the whole picture, and see how bad things have been, it makes me wonder if something is seriously wrong. I hope I'm wrong and that I'm reading too much into this, but I can't help but wonder if he has reached a point that the concussions are affecting him so much that he's just not the same player he used to be. I'll admit that this would be a sharp drop off even if that were the case, but I don't really know what else to think. Am I overreacting, or are there others who share the same concerns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I've just been looking at Sidney Crosby's stats, and while I knew he has been struggling, I didn't realize just how deep the problems are. That he's struggling offensively is well documented, but since the team got hot for a while, it didn't really seem to matter, and honestly, I just assumed the rest of his play had been decent. Of course, that said, I haven't seen a lot of the Penguins games this year, so I had no way to give him the eye test. So, when I looked at his stats in more detail, I was honestly stunned. There's the offensive aspect of it, where he has just nine points in 17 games. That pace would give him only 43 points over 82 games. His 0.53 ppg is less than half of the worst mark of his career. Then, I took a look at his +/- rating. He's a -8, which is the third worst mark on the team. That led me to take a look at his Corsi and Fenwick percentages. He has a 47.5% Corsi rating and a 47.6% Fenwick rating. All in all, he's right at his career average of 52.8% on faceoffs this season, but in his last five games, he has failed to break 50%. Prior to that stretch, he had failed to break that mark only three times in twelve games. Is that a sign of trouble? I promise I'm not trying to give Pens fans any grief here, but when I look at the whole picture, and see how bad things have been, it makes me wonder if something is seriously wrong. I hope I'm wrong and that I'm reading too much into this, but I can't help but wonder if he has reached a point that the concussions are affecting him so much that he's just not the same player he used to be. I'll admit that this would be a sharp drop off even if that were the case, but I don't really know what else to think. Am I overreacting, or are there others who share the same concerns?All I know is, Fantasy owners should be in a panic. In a one year league, I would be trying to sell him at this point. unlike Voracek, Crosby's value on name and reputation might still garner a good return. In a keeper league, I would be praying he returns to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Ovechkin had one really awful year (a few years ago). Maybe it's Crosby's turn to have a bad year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDevil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I feel like there's a mismatch between the personnel the Pens have and the style/system the coach wants them to play. Kind of like when the Caps went to a more defensive style after Boudreau. In theory it made sense because their more offensive style didn't work in the playoffs, but at the end of the day if you've got Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel, I'm not sure focusing more on defense is maximizing your talent. Of course it doesn't help when you have a defense that, outside of Letang, is not very good at transitioning the puck to those forwards, which leads to the forwards starting deeper in their own zone to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom The thing is, even when Ovi had his off year, he still managed 38 goals, which is a total most players would love to have. Crosby's current pace is rather pedestrian, to say the least. I guess the simile can be drawn, but things are far worse for Crosby at the moment. @MadDevil I'm far from sold that the Penguins can continue to succeed if they have to rely on defense. Marc Andre-Fleury is great when he's good, but he can be streaky, and we all know about the lack of depth at defense that has hurt them in the past. I think they're going to have to begin scoring more, and Crosby's going to have to be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 You know things are bad for the Pens when Horny, a top six forward sits on the waiver wire in fantasy hockey. Just sitting there for the taking and no one has bit. Never, ever thought he would be cut, but the Pens offense has a whole is suffering, so it's a sign of the times. Just thinking out loud, but could this bad chemistry be partly Kessel's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 but could this bad chemistry be partly Kessel's fault? No, I can't imagine that could happen. I mean, cancer doesn't ever spread throughout the body right? It's usually just happy to sit in one place and bide its time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 No, I can't imagine that could happen. I mean, cancer doesn't ever spread throughout the body right? It's usually just happy to sit in one place and bide its time. LOL. I'm anxiously awaiting this season's animated GIF showing the Pittsburgh Penguins working out on the exercise bikes and then Phil Kessel. (Unless the media has now been barred from that area too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm anxiously awaiting this season's animated GIF showing the Pittsburgh Penguins working out on the exercise bikes and then Phil Kessel. Me too! That might be my all-time favorite GIF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I think Crosby just needs wider nets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Damn, my brain read COSBY struggles are deeper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDevil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Putting an elite playmaker and an elite goal scorer together isn't guaranteed to work. It's not necessarily either player's fault if it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Ovechkin had one really awful year (a few years ago). Maybe it's Crosby's turn to have a bad year? Define awful? Awful defensively one year, but he still scored 50+ goals to go with his -35 lol Or the year he ONLY had 38 goals? When Green and Backstrom, the other two best players missed the bulk of the year? Crosby is on pace for 10 goals and 33 assists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Maybe it is the generational highlander effect? McDavid has arrived, and there can be only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I think Crosby just needs wider nets. wider nets AND goalie pads smaller! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Define awful? Awful defensively one year, but he still scored 50+ goals to go with his -35 lol Or the year he ONLY had 38 goals? When Green and Backstrom, the other two best players missed the bulk of the year? Okay maybe it wasn't that awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Maybe it is the generational highlander effect? McDavid has arrived, and there can be only one. LOL. Maybe he's upset that THN ranked him as the 4th best player in the world. Maybe he wants to win the "Comeback Player of the Year" award (whatever it's called). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The defense first system sucks. Crosby spends a lot of his time behind our own net. Last night looks like they finally Let the forwards skate. Hopefully it stays that way and Sid can return to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Just some food for thought from the Pens board. (was visiting there trying to get some insight into what is wrong with the Pens this year) http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66065KG wrote:They need to trade away someone from the core. It's not like this core has been successful in recent memory.Letang would be the one I move. It would serve a message to the rest of the team. Plus he plays like a bone head most games!I would consider moving him, but they'd have to make multiple moves to have an NHL defense. Letang is their only defenseman who is top pairing worthy. Maata could be there, but isn't yet.I really think the time has come to trade either Crosby or Malkin. And I really don't know which one I would trade. But go look at Chicago, LA, Rangers, Boston, Tampa, Montreal, Anaheim...the teams that have been winning Cups or challenging for Cups in the last 5 or more years. NONE of these teams have 2 centers that have the scoring potential that Crosby and Malkin have. Maybe it's time to admit that the "2-center model" that the Penguins employ is not the best method to challenge for another Cup.I think their failures this season is more on the coaching, the players failure to buy-in to the system, and maybe even Johnston having lost the room. But that's becoming a broken record type scenario. For this year, fire the coach, bring in an offensive minded coach that can get the most out of this team, with a good defensive assistant (Martin?). At the deadline, don't be afraid to make a big move. Re-evaluate the roster over the summer. If big moves aren't made at the deadline, consider doing something over the summer and at the draft. From another poster....I'm done with Sid. He looks in a daze, isn't the "greatest player in the world" right now, and isn't a leader. From another poster.... I think Sid needs a change of scenery and a new challenge.I just wonder at this point what the realistic value of Sid would be in a trade. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2015/11/16/Penguins-notebook-Recent-comments-suggest-attitude-issues/stories/201511150210 Pens have an attitude issue. We've known that. Now it's starting to get some press. The ball is in management's court. What are you going to do Mr. Burkle, Mr. Lemieux and Mr. GMJR? You have unhappy players and a ton of unhappy fans. Swift, decisive and well thought out actions are needed. Some hard decisions need made. Are you up to the challenge? LOL...this one made me spit up my drink ...LOL Wasn't there speculation last season about Crosby going through personal problems? May have been Madden. Maybe he's going through some hectic relationship issues with his girl/boy friend or partner? Its quite a very interesting thread to read especially from an opposing teams fan perspective....just proves that the issues the Flyers have are even present with some other clubs. (well some of the issues the Flyers have are the lack of talent in some areas...but you get my drift) ... Anyway this was not to bash the Pens or their fans....just an honest attempt to see look at Pens fans and see what they are saying about their team as they have some early season struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 @pilldocIt all comes down to the system. Sid will get his points when he's taken off the defensive leash. I'm tired of watching Johnston try to turn him into Toews... Just let the guy play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 @Polaris922 Is Johnston really that bad? Have not watched any Pens games yet this year except for maybe a minute here or there. Why play a defensive game when the Pens have all that fire power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 @pilldoc I think at this point it is fair to say he has not been the same player since the Steckel/Hedman hits. By same I mean "elite goal scorer" and "hands down the best player in the world." The numbers don't lie. At the time of those hits he had 32 goals in 41 games. On pace for a 64 goal season. He was coming off a 51 goal season. Clearly trending up. He hasn't sniffed numbers like that since. He still elite (i.e. - among the top 5-10 players in the game right now). He's still (in the right system) a PPG+ player but his game has been built on speed and a willingness to go into to corners and camp out in front of the net - the "dirty" areas of an NHL game - and he doesn't do that nearly as much anymore. Combine that with Johnston's system and you have a player who was peaking at a 120 point level down to a 90-100 point level (see Steckel/Hedman) being further hampered by a defense-first system which makes him closer to a 70 point player. (If nothing else changes this year - coach, system - I still think he ends up around 65-70 points despite what his "on pace" numbers are now). That said, I think the Pens can win with this "arrangement" provided they find a way to upgrade the D this season (easier said that done especially now with Mattaa likely to miss an extended period of time). At the end of the day it is a waste of his skill set but if it leads to a deep playoff run I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I think at this point it is fair to say he has not been the same player since the Steckel/Hedman hits. By same I mean "elite goal scorer" and "hands down the best player in the world." The numbers don't lie. At the time of those hits he had 32 goals in 41 games. On pace for a 64 goal season. He was coming off a 51 goal season. Clearly trending up.He hasn't sniffed numbers like that since. Paul Kariya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I really think the time has come to trade either Crosby or Malkin. And I really don't know which one I would trade. But go look at Chicago, LA, Rangers, Boston, Tampa, Montreal, Anaheim...the teams that have been winning Cups or challenging for Cups in the last 5 or more years. NONE of these teams have 2 centers that have the scoring potential that Crosby and Malkin have. Maybe it's time to admit that the "2-center model" that the Penguins employ is not the best method to challenge for another Cup. I've said this for years. The Penguins aren't "balanced" right. In a salary cap world, you can't afford to have two #1 centers. They should trade Malkin to Toronto -- a team that needs a #1 center. In exchange, Pittsburgh would get cap space, a roster player of ours, and a lottery protected 1st round draft pick of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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