brelic Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 minute ago, JR Ewing said: Ovechkin is all-time great, and I hate talking about a team sport like it's the heavyweight championship of the world, but we seem past the point of making excuses for him. We have to point out, like you did, that he's the common denominator here. He may not be the problem, but he's apparently not the solution either. I completely agree. I don't think Ovechkin is any sort of "problem." No more than, say Joe Thornton. They both come up small in the playoffs and have been unable to 'lead' their teams to a Stanley Cup. But they aren't problems - they are the just not the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 While I was rooting for the Caps in this series (as I could never root for the Pens), but after seeing the Caps mental tent just begin to fold a little bit in the Flyers series as soon as they faced any adversity I knew they would be no match for the Pens. (If the Flyers had any scoring depth on the team whatsoever they win game 6 in Philly and may have even been able to take that series). I predicted Pens in 6 and sadly I was right. Ovie to me is the Alan Iverson of hockey. He is super talented, never saw a shot he didnt like, and just can't seem to win when it counts. The good news is that the Caps did get a new sponsor after last night's debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, brelic said: I completely agree. I don't think Ovechkin is any sort of "problem." No more than, say Joe Thornton. They both come up small in the playoffs and have been unable to 'lead' their teams to a Stanley Cup. But they aren't problems - they are the just not the solution. This is all I'm really saying. I don't know what I do if I'm Washington management. Because trading him, like I mentioned, would be a PR nightmare and kill merchandise sales. Also, you run the risk of not having the regular season results you had with him. And maybe you end up with no better results in the playoffs. Maybe the package you get, though, makes the team more balanced and you finally at least make it to the conference finals. I actually think it would border on nuts to trade him. But they're not going to win with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 i really thought this was the best Caps team ever. TJ Oshie really surprised me with his play, he's pretty damn good. I don't think the team was unbalanced, the exception is on the power play, funneling everything to 8 in the left FO circle makes it easier to stop but the other guys figured that out too. The biggest reason they lost the series for me was Brooks Orpik, he was atrocious, played like stupid pylon. He was directly responsible for 4 goals against that i can remember off the top of my head. If his suspension was for more games i'll bet the series is still going. I will never think trading 3 quarters for a dollar is good idea, but i don't know what to do with 8 if i'm the Caps Front Office. Maybe Carlson takes over being the alpha ? I don't know Ovechkin is supremely talented and played decently, but the team doesn't seem to be able to get to the next level with him leading it. I don't know how that can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, ruxpin said: Yes. You led with that and I disregarded it. I still do. It's not relevant. It is relevant because you're still attributing this loss to Ovechkin despite him out producing the penguins two best players. Do it so with the other postseason performances which he **** the bed, but not in this particular case because he actually came up strong. Penguins depth was playing better, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: It is relevant because you're still attributing this loss to Ovechkin despite him out producing the penguins two best players. Do it so with the other postseason performances which he **** the bed, but not in this particular case because he actually came up strong. Penguins depth was playing better, OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, JR Ewing said: There's a little rule/bullsh|t test I try to live by: if the same things keep happening in your life, but with different people, you have to ask yourself what are the odds that it's always the other guy's fault, or if (just possibly) you yourself are to blame. Ovechkin is all-time great, and I hate talking about a team sport like it's the heavyweight championship of the world, but we seem past the point of making excuses for him. We have to point out, like you did, that he's the common denominator here. He may not be the problem, but he's apparently not the solution either. I don't agree with that logic, Especially in a team game. Do you say the same for Ray Bourque in Boston? Jagr in Pittsburgh without Lemieux? Dionne in LA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Forums Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 This topic has been moved from "Philadelphia Flyers Forum" to "Washington Capitals Forum". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @mojo1917 He's arguably not even the best player on his team anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 37 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: I don't agree with that logic, Especially in a team game. Do you say the same for Ray Bourque in Boston? Jagr in Pittsburgh without Lemieux? Dionne in LA? Bourque? No. The teams that he led lost in the Finals to one of the greatest dynasties of all-time, which was led by the greatest player ever, and another man generally considered to be one of the the best leaders in pro sports history. Jagr? No. He led teams which were 5, 3 and then 1 game above league average in wins to the Final 4, and then the second round, in the three years without Mario. Dionne? No. He played for a completely overmatched team in an era when 14/18 and then 16/21 teams made the playoffs. In the first half of his career, his teams were stuck in road trip hell, playing in the Norris Division with the Habs, and by the time the playoffs arrived, they were completely shot. In the second half of his career, in order to get anywhere, they had to make it past the Oilers. Good luck with that, Miracle of Manchester notwithstanding. So, no... I see these situations differently. One player led his team deep in the playoffs numerous times, one played for a slightly better than average team and still did well enough in the playoffs, and the other played for mostly bad teams with the deck stacked against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 You're welcome Penguins. uhhh Love, The Philadelphia Flyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Poulin20 said: While I was rooting for the Caps in this series (as I could never root for the Pens), but after seeing the Caps mental tent just begin to fold a little bit in the Flyers series as soon as they faced any adversity I knew they would be no match for the Pens. (If the Flyers had any scoring depth on the team whatsoever they win game 6 in Philly and may have even been able to take that series). I predicted Pens in 6 and sadly I was right. Ovie to me is the Alan Iverson of hockey. He is super talented, never saw a shot he didnt like, and just can't seem to win when it counts. The good news is that the Caps did get a new sponsor after last night's debacle. Good one, LOL, but shouldn't that be Ovechchoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Took quite some time to decompress after the game, the one thing I hate about the NHL playoffs is the nerve wracking late nights with overtime games. But I'm okay now. It's easy to blurt out "The Capitals choked". After all, they are the reigning Presidents Cup trophy holders, and for the last x years, they've failed to make it past the second round. It's kind of mind boggling. Almost everyone predicted them going to the Cup Finals. They brought in all sorts of character and veteran players. They had a record breaking year. But all of that matters not, out they went. But "Chokers"? I don't know. Not for nothing, but the Penguins have been the best team in the NHL coming into the playoffs. If you'd have told me that would have happened in December, I would have told you to get off the sauce. But they are. Between the change in players, and the change in coaching, the team is clicking on all cylinders. Every line is contributing in their own way. I never thought that it could happen this year, but it did. Anyway, I thought I just had to contribute to this thread, hopefully it will relax the muscles in my face as I've had a huge grin since Bonino ended it. Enjoy that Presidents Cup Caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @JR EwingFair enough. But one player is very rarely ever the solution. People can point out that he hasn't advanced past the second round in 11 years with great teams. But to simply come to the conclusion that its BECAUSE of him is too simplistic. A crap ton more context has to be taken into account. For sure the last few years he has been dissapointing, but when he was younger his teams were not spectacular and he was above a ppg throughout 2007-08 to 2010-11 and even had 24 points in 11 games during a post season at one point. 2011-12 to present is were the dissapointment should arrise, not his whole damn playoff career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 minute ago, JagerMeister said: @JR EwingFair enough. But one player is very rarely ever the solution. People can point out that he hasn't advanced past the second round in 11 years with great teams. But to simply come to the conclusion that its BECAUSE of him is too simplistic. A crap ton more context has to be taken into account. For sure the last few years he has been dissapointing, but when he was younger his teams were not spectacular and he was above a ppg throughout 2007-08 to 2010-11 and even had 24 points in 11 games during a post season at one point. 2011-12 to present is were the dissapointment should arrise, not his whole damn playoff career. Jager, the one thing that keeps this conversation about Ovie going is that they've basically changed coaches, changed the supporting cast, changed the style of play and brought in key free agent talent. The one thing that is the same is 8. Rightly or wrongly people will look at that alone and say that everything else has changed and we get the same result, what is the common component. Its not a good legacy to have, but its compounded itself to the point that he's stuck with it until he breaks the cycle. Yes, its not all his fault, but it seems that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: @JR EwingFair enough. But one player is very rarely ever the solution. People can point out that he hasn't advanced past the second round in 11 years with great teams. But to simply come to the conclusion that its BECAUSE of him is too simplistic. A crap ton more context has to be taken into account. For sure the last few years he has been dissapointing, but when he was younger his teams were not spectacular and he was above a ppg throughout 2007-08 to 2010-11 and even had 24 points in 11 games during a post season at one point. 2011-12 to present is were the dissapointment should arrise, not his whole damn playoff career. You're really putting words in my mouth here: I specifically said that Alexander Ovechkin isn't the problem, and thus never said their lack of success is because of him. I said that hockey is a team game, and I also said that he's great. But... After growing up watching a man drag teams which were a shadow of their former selves deep into the playoffs, I can't help but wait for the other shoe to drop as it pertains to Alex Ovechkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 25 minutes ago, nossagog said: LOL .... Priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @JR Ewing My bad. I wasn't really referring to you. Just the other people coming to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Congratulations to all, this is the most popular thread ever in the Capitals Forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @nossagogI understand that. The best player on the team will always be criticized the most. Even if its complete and utter bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @Samifan With no capitals fan in sight. LoL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: @nossagogI understand that. The best player on the team will always be criticized the most. Even if its completele and utter bullshit. yup see Crosby, Sydney and Giroux, Claude ... they both say hello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @pilldoc Yup. Only under specific occasions can they be held accountable for playoff failure. Crosby for a few playoff performances, Ovechkin for a couple and Giroux.....well, I dont even know if he should even be held culpable for this year considering the circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I was in the dairy aisle in a Washington D.C. Giant yesterday afternoon, and I saw this face on a milk carton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Go Blues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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