Jeff Carter Love

[King Knut]

I'm happy for him and this article just really cracked me up considering how most people around here felt about him.

 

I was always fairly sympathetic and I think Coots and Jake and Cousins is an excellent return for him even at this point, so I get to feel good for a kid living up to his potential without being jealous (though I'm jealous of the cups, but that's not part of this really).

 

http://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/jeff-carter-heart-soul-scoring-punch-l-kings/

[OccamsRazor]

Pas encore cette merde!!!!!!!

[yave1964]

One heck of a player has taken the Kings and with Quick out and Kopitar having an awful year made this his club and carried it on his shoulders.

[flyercanuck]

Carter was always a much better player than he was given credit for on these boards.(or at least the old one)

 

Ok, not in Columbus.

[radoran]

8 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Carter was always a much better player than he was given credit for on these boards.(or at least the old one)

 

Ok, not in Columbus.

 

At 25-years-old (Schenn's age) Carter scored 33 goals coming off a 46-goal, 84-point season the year before.

 

He would score 36 goals and 66 points the next season and then be traded for "reasons."

 

#wonthetrade

[DaGreatGazoo]

I still hate his frosted tip haired, lazy back checking, goal scoring ass.  

 

Any questions?  

[radoran]

40 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

I still hate his frosted tip haired, lazy back checking, goal scoring ass.  

 

Any questions?  

 

Crater can't hear you. His Stanley Cup Champion rings are in his ears.

 

[RJ8812]

Probably my most hated Flyer since the 2000s

[Podein25]

20 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Probably my most hated Flyer since the 2000s

 

I will never forget my first and only visit to WF to see the Flyes vs Boston. The guy behind me kept yelling "CARTER YOU BUM!" and demanding Riley Cote be played more (he wasn't even dressed!). Perfect!

[AJgoal]

The only real problem I saw with Carter was that he deserved more ice time, but with Richards and Briere at 1/2, and Carter's seeming inability to adjust to the wing, that wasn't really going to come. I had thought at the time that the best move would have been to ship Carter for a similar player, just a guy on one of the wings (Because I never imagined the Flyers would trade Richards, not because I disliked Carter). As I said in the Shattenkirk thread, though, the Flyers ironically traded Carter for exactly the type of player, if not THE player, they really needed for his wing in Jake.

 

In retrospect, the best move for the Flyers may have been to do the Richards trade and see if they could get Voracek from Columbus for something else (IIRC, Columbus was down on him and the real prize in the Carter deal was the 1st). You'd end up with Carter/Briere 1/2, and then Giroux would have supplanted Briere as Briere declined. Fast forward to today, and you could have a top 6 of Konecny (Maybe. Tough to know what other moves get made over the years, of course. Maybe Hartnell. Raffl's ability to control the puck would probably work well here too.) - Carter - Voracek and Schenn - Giroux - Simmonds. No Cousins or Couturier, so the third line starts to get murky, but that's a pretty dynamic top six.

 

I also don't know what was actually going on behind the scenes with Carter/Richards, dry island, etc., so who knows if any of that was possible. Maybe the two trades were what Carter needed to fully mature as a player. When the GM of your new team has to get on a plane and come fetch you because you're holed up in your shore house, it's obvious that some growing up is needed. But it's possible that some mentorship could have gotten it done in Philly.

[RJ8812]

44 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I will never forget my first and only visit to WF to see the Flyes vs Boston. The guy behind me kept yelling "CARTER YOU BUM!" and demanding Riley Cote be played more (he wasn't even dressed!). Perfect!

 lol well...I mean, I'm not that crazy. Cote was barely an ECHLer let alone an NHLer

 

Carter just a frustrating player that never showed up when we needed him

[Podein25]

Just now, RJ8812 said:

 lol well...I mean, I'm wasn't that crazy. Cote was barely an ECHLer let alone an NHLer

 

This guy was from New Jersey, not Ontario, and he appeared to know very little about hockey. But he knew just enough to hate Jeff Carter with the red hot heat of a thousand suns.

[DaGreatGazoo]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

Crater can't hear you. His Stanley Cup Champion rings are in his ears.

 

I never said he wasn't good!  I just said I hate him.  

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

Probably my most hated Flyer since the 2000s

 

You really just don't like being good do you?

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

The only real problem I saw with Carter was that he deserved more ice time, but with Richards and Briere at 1/2, and Carter's seeming inability to adjust to the wing, that wasn't really going to come. I had thought at the time that the best move would have been to ship Carter for a similar player, just a guy on one of the wings (Because I never imagined the Flyers would trade Richards, not because I disliked Carter). As I said in the Shattenkirk thread, though, the Flyers ironically traded Carter for exactly the type of player, if not THE player, they really needed for his wing in Jake.

 

In retrospect, the best move for the Flyers may have been to do the Richards trade and see if they could get Voracek from Columbus for something else (IIRC, Columbus was down on him and the real prize in the Carter deal was the 1st). You'd end up with Carter/Briere 1/2, and then Giroux would have supplanted Briere as Briere declined. Fast forward to today, and you could have a top 6 of Konecny (Maybe. Tough to know what other moves get made over the years, of course. Maybe Hartnell. Raffl's ability to control the puck would probably work well here too.) - Carter - Voracek and Schenn - Giroux - Simmonds. No Cousins or Couturier, so the third line starts to get murky, but that's a pretty dynamic top six.

 

I also don't know what was actually going on behind the scenes with Carter/Richards, dry island, etc., so who knows if any of that was possible. Maybe the two trades were what Carter needed to fully mature as a player. When the GM of your new team has to get on a plane and come fetch you because you're holed up in your shore house, it's obvious that some growing up is needed. But it's possible that some mentorship could have gotten it done in Philly.

 

 

The problem was the trades just didn't make any sense in light of the Bryzgalov deal.  

If Homer wanted to start a rebuild, then try to dish Richards and Carter, but also Pronger (he'd just gotten them to the final, someone would have taken him) maybe Briere and go for an unproven goalie with a future (I actually believed for about 8 seconds until I read the rest of the story that Richards MUST have been traded for the JUST established but unproven Jonathan Quick because THAT's a deal that made sense to me).  

And you take all your picks and prospects and you rebuild for a couple of years around Giroux.

 

Instead they doubled down on a rebuild at exactly the same time they were doubling down on winning now.

 

It made zero sense.  

 

From reports at the time, the Carter deal was the head scratcher.  The Richards deal supposedly wasn't a real thing until Richards gave Homer and earful about the Carter deal.  

 

To me there was no good reason to trade them.  Even if the drugs thing was known... like Chris Carter, why the hell do you ship a guy out of town because you know he has a drug problem?  How irresponsible is that?  Especially if it's an OXY related problem that your training and med staff are probably implicit in causing?  WORK WITH THEM.  INTERVENE.  REQUIRE REHAB and 12 STEP.  FOR THEM AND FOR THE TEAM.    If you think your player has a drug problem, trading him is a dyck move to your player and the other team.  It's borderline unconscionable and frankly it opens you up to a world of legal hurt.

 

At least the Kings chose to deal with Richards' problem openly.  Didn't exactly work out like they hoped (let's face it, they were being asses) but in the end everyone got what they wanted.  

 

In a different world, that's what Pronger could have been (the mentor they needed) but Pronger was just such a hateful arse himself he couldn't seem to get over Richie not tearing the C off his sweater and handing it to Chris at the airport when he arrived into town.  

 

Briere certainly was that mentor for the likes of GIroux.  I guess Richie and Carter were in town before him, older than G, not french, and therefore less interested in his "Dad" advice.  

 

 

[FD19372]

We can do better than Carter. He's a one-dimensional floater, and I'll never forgive him and his performance in the 2010 finals that we should have one. I don't care if he's a goal-scorer. Stop it with the re-treads.

 

[FD19372]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Crater can't hear you. His Stanley Cup Champion rings are in his ears.

 

Yeah. He benefited by not having to be the main man in L.A. It helped him and having his buddy Richards also helped. He had Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Williams, Gagne, Martinez and that guy named Quick backstopping them. Not too shabby. Then again, if he comes back, maybe he'll let me party with him in Margate.

[AJgoal]

49 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

The problem was the trades just didn't make any sense in light of the Bryzgalov deal.  

 

 

This too. I said it at the time, it was schizophrenic what Homer did over that couple of days.

 

And to clarify, my post regarding what they should have done there was made with the full benefit of hindsight. I'm fine with the result of the Richards trade, even if all the Flyers did was shift the headache of his cap hit while out of the league to LA. Keeping Carter might have benefitted the club more than trading him did. Especially if they managed to acquire Voracek with a different move. All hindsight and speculation, though.

[fanaticV3.0]

17 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Yeah. He benefited by not having to be the main man in L.A. It helped him and having his buddy Richards also helped. He had Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Williams, Gagne, Martinez and that guy named Quick backstopping them. Not too shabby. Then again, if he comes back, maybe he'll let me party with him in Margate.

 

I don't understand how hard this is for some folks. He was – or expected to be – a cornerstone here. He went to Columbus, pouted and floundered, went to LA – and wasn't expected to be a cornerstone – and flourished. This isn't rocket science.

 

What I do find shocking about the whole situation is that he will wind up having a better career than Richards. No one would have predicted that.

[fanaticV3.0]

17 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

The problem was the trades just didn't make any sense in light of the Bryzgalov deal.  

If Homer wanted to start a rebuild, then try to dish Richards and Carter, but also Pronger (he'd just gotten them to the final, someone would have taken him) maybe Briere and go for an unproven goalie with a future (I actually believed for about 8 seconds until I read the rest of the story that Richards MUST have been traded for the JUST established but unproven Jonathan Quick because THAT's a deal that made sense to me).  

And you take all your picks and prospects and you rebuild for a couple of years around Giroux.

 

Instead they doubled down on a rebuild at exactly the same time they were doubling down on winning now.

 

It made zero sense.  

 

From reports at the time, the Carter deal was the head scratcher.  The Richards deal supposedly wasn't a real thing until Richards gave Homer and earful about the Carter deal.  

 

To me there was no good reason to trade them.  Even if the drugs thing was known... like Chris Carter, why the hell do you ship a guy out of town because you know he has a drug problem?  How irresponsible is that?  Especially if it's an OXY related problem that your training and med staff are probably implicit in causing?  WORK WITH THEM.  INTERVENE.  REQUIRE REHAB and 12 STEP.  FOR THEM AND FOR THE TEAM.    If you think your player has a drug problem, trading him is a dyck move to your player and the other team.  It's borderline unconscionable and frankly it opens you up to a world of legal hurt.

 

At least the Kings chose to deal with Richards' problem openly.  Didn't exactly work out like they hoped (let's face it, they were being asses) but in the end everyone got what they wanted.  

 

In a different world, that's what Pronger could have been (the mentor they needed) but Pronger was just such a hateful arse himself he couldn't seem to get over Richie not tearing the C off his sweater and handing it to Chris at the airport when he arrived into town.  

 

Briere certainly was that mentor for the likes of GIroux.  I guess Richie and Carter were in town before him, older than G, not french, and therefore less interested in his "Dad" advice.  

 

 

 

Talk about ahead scratcher – you literally just blamed everyone except the addict himself.

[King Knut]

19 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

Talk about ahead scratcher – you literally just blamed everyone except the addict himself.

 

Richie got into trouble with Oxy.

Which is a med you don't get addicted to without an initial prescription.  In fact it usually takes many prescriptions and doctors saying, "no, I can't give you any more." And often the addict is working several different doctors and pharmacies for scripts without them knowing it.  

 

The guy's whole existence has been defined by hockey team since long before adulthood.  I think it's an incredibly safe bet that Flyers team doctors were giving him Oxy and the training staff was having him pop the "cowboy candy" for aches and pains for a while before he was traded.  

 

So he drank a lot.  Maybe he tried a few other drugs at parties and such.  Maybe they even became habits.  The one that he got arrested for and got his contract terminated was Oxy.  

 

So yeah... even in my most harsh and unsympathetic and purely logical moments, I don't think he got into that hole all by himself and yeah, I think there's a certain degree of responsibility on the team to help get him out.  And such a trade opens them up to legal ramifications if they're not careful.  This aspect, I assume is what came into play that guy Richie something more akin to a buyout.  

 

From a team standpoint, even if it was all coke and booze that he got into all by himself by partying it up like a mad man, on the kind of team I run, I'd want to help my team members if they found themselves in the middle of that kind of a problem because if you know anything about addiction, you know an addict can't climb out of the hole until he makes the decision to do so, but even then 99% of the time he cannot climb out by himself.  So yeah, even though we know it was Oxy and that I'm 99.9% sure the team was involved in helping that Oxy problem happen, even if there had been no oxy problem at all, if It's my team, I think it's completely irresponsible to ship a guy out of town because he's got a drug problem.  

 

It's damaging to him and to the team you're sending him to and low and behold it ended up in Richie getting arrested at the Canadian border with a trunk full of prescription pain meds.  

 

And as an aside, I've never had a problem with addiction.  I've tried things in my youth, even made habits of them, but they never became problems for and now I don't even have the habits...  but never once have I ever had trouble giving up a single vice.  Never needed a twelve step, never needed rehab, never even needed nicotine gum.  

I'm probably weird that way, but I'm just not so sanctimonious to think it's the same for everyone.  

 

 

[fanaticV3.0]

16 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Richie got into trouble with Oxy.

Which is a med you don't get addicted to without an initial prescription.  In fact it usually takes many prescriptions and doctors saying, "no, I can't give you any more." And often the addict is working several different doctors and pharmacies for scripts without them knowing it.  

 

The guy's whole existence has been defined by hockey team since long before adulthood.  I think it's an incredibly safe bet that Flyers team doctors were giving him Oxy and the training staff was having him pop the "cowboy candy" for aches and pains for a while before he was traded.  

 

So he drank a lot.  Maybe he tried a few other drugs at parties and such.  Maybe they even became habits.  The one that he got arrested for and got his contract terminated was Oxy.  

 

So yeah... even in my most harsh and unsympathetic and purely logical moments, I don't think he got into that hole all by himself and yeah, I think there's a certain degree of responsibility on the team to help get him out.  And such a trade opens them up to legal ramifications if they're not careful.  This aspect, I assume is what came into play that guy Richie something more akin to a buyout.  

 

From a team standpoint, even if it was all coke and booze that he got into all by himself by partying it up like a mad man, on the kind of team I run, I'd want to help my team members if they found themselves in the middle of that kind of a problem because if you know anything about addiction, you know an addict can't climb out of the hole until he makes the decision to do so, but even then 99% of the time he cannot climb out by himself.  So yeah, even though we know it was Oxy and that I'm 99.9% sure the team was involved in helping that Oxy problem happen, even if there had been no oxy problem at all, if It's my team, I think it's completely irresponsible to ship a guy out of town because he's got a drug problem.  

 

It's damaging to him and to the team you're sending him to and low and behold it ended up in Richie getting arrested at the Canadian border with a trunk full of prescription pain meds.  

 

And as an aside, I've never had a problem with addiction.  I've tried things in my youth, even made habits of them, but they never became problems for and now I don't even have the habits...  but never once have I ever had trouble giving up a single vice.  Never needed a twelve step, never needed rehab, never even needed nicotine gum.  

I'm probably weird that way, but I'm just not so sanctimonious to think it's the same for everyone.  

 

 

 

I take five pills a day for chronic nerve pain. I have been doing this since June 2015. As of this point in time, there is a chance I will be doing this for a very long time. I take exactly what I am supposed to take and still have pain ( much less than at its worst) every single day. I choose not to take more than I am supposed to. I do that. Just as I would be the one choosing to do that if I abused these pills and took more than I was supposed to. To borrow a phrase, "My body, my choice." I'm not sanctimonious, I'm responsible.

[King Knut]

28 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

I take five pills a day for chronic nerve pain. I have been doing this since June 2015. As of this point in time, there is a chance I will be doing this for a very long time. I take exactly what I am supposed to take and still have pain ( much less than at its worst) every single day. I choose not to take more than I am supposed to. I do that. Just as I would be the one choosing to do that if I abused these pills and took more than I was supposed to. To borrow a phrase, "My body, my choice." I'm not sanctimonious, I'm responsible.

 

That's great.  If only everyone were as disciplined as you or as lucky as me.

I was on Oxy after some surgery a little while back.  Frankly it did nothing and I stopped using it.  Tylenol worked better for me.  

[radoran]

48 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

I don't understand how hard this is for some folks. He was – or expected to be – a cornerstone here. He went to Columbus, pouted and floundered, went to LA – and wasn't expected to be a cornerstone – and flourished. This isn't rocket science.

 

He was always the second guy to Richards - exactly the way the organization wanted him to be.

 

And he put up 46-33-36 goals when he was here. He hasn't hit any of those numbers since (I guess it depends on your idea of "flourishing") but guys who put up 46-33-36 are generally considered "cornerstones" of franchises. And all they did was make the Cup Final.

 

As for being a "cornerstone" in LA - he was second on the team with 25 points in 26 games in the second Cup run (a good definition of "flourishing" and also of "cornerstone") and is a important voice in the locker room and on the ice to this day.

 

So the Flyers "won the trades", the Kings "won two Cups" and the Kings today are in the same position as the Flyers - holding on to the second Wild Card spot in the West - and doing it without their franchise goaltender.

 

Quite frankly, it was the fans - and I say this as someone who uses (dear, departed) davies' accidental typo of "Crater" to this day - who saw this 30-goal scorer as a "floater" and have grasped at whatever salacious rumor they could find to justify the opinion.

 

FWIW, since "the trades" the Flyers have had all of two 30-goal scorers (Hartnell in 11-12, Simmonds last season) and have four rounds of playoffs in the past five years. #wonthetrades

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

He was always the second guy to Richards - exactly the way the organization wanted him to be.

 

And he put up 46-33-36 goals when he was here. He hasn't hit any of those numbers since (I guess it depends on your idea of "flourishing") but guys who put up 46-33-36 are generally considered "cornerstones" of franchises. And all they did was make the Cup Final.

 

As for being a "cornerstone" in LA - he was second on the team with 25 points in 26 games in the second Cup run (a good definition of "flourishing" and also of "cornerstone") and is a important voice in the locker room and on the ice to this day.

 

So the Flyers "won the trades", the Kings "won two Cups" and the Kings today are in the same position as the Flyers - holding on to the second Wild Card spot in the West - and doing it without their franchise goaltender.

 

Quite frankly, it was the fans - and I say this as someone who uses (dear, departed) davies' accidental typo of "Crater" to this day - who saw this 30-goal scorer as a "floater" and have grasped at whatever salacious rumor they could find to justify the opinion.

 

FWIW, since "the trades" the Flyers have had all of two 30-goal scorers (Hartnell in 11-12, Simmonds last season) and have four rounds of playoffs in the past five years. #wonthetrades

 

Yeah... but booze and drugs and Hartnell's divorce!