mojo1917 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 @fanaticV3.0 you're gonna love this... I watched him play some hockey when he was in college. He made aggressive plays all over the ice, he used his speed to cover his mistakes. He always seemed to be everywhere at once, when he was on the ice he impacted the game. Some of that is skill but some of it is hockey iq too. I don't think he's a stupid player, I think he has the ability and brains to bounce back. I think he's having some growing pains that we get to watch in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 hours ago, ruxpin said: That was simply bats##t crazy. Htichcock has a long career and long justifiable reputation of not doing well with young players. Why would you bring him in to work with young players? Joni Pitkanen?? It's arguable that he ruined that kid. That was simply one of the more W.....T.....F posts I've read in a really long time. We now know that BobbyClarkeFan16 is actually Sean Spicer. #alternativefacts Pitkanen never wanted to be in Philadelphia and he was homesick and lonesome. It also didn't help masters that when John Stevens took over, he allowed Todd Fedoruk to take liberties with Pitkanen in practice and beat him up. I'm serious about Hitchcock coaching the defensemen though. The only other coach I think of who has helped their defensemen reach elite status might be Joel Quenneville, maybe Barry Trotz. Other than that, nobody had the record that Hitch has developing young defensemen. Don't believe me? Look at all the active coaches in the NHL and compare them to the job Hitch has d done. Honestly, nobody in the game right now measures up. I get that Hitch had issues developing forwards, but defensemen are his forte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 minute ago, mojo1917 said: @fanaticV3.0 you're gonna love this... I watched him play some hockey when he was in college. He made aggressive plays all over the ice, he used his speed to cover his mistakes. He always seemed to be everywhere at once, when he was on the ice he impacted the game. Some of that is skill but some of it is hockey iq too. I don't think he's a stupid player, I think he has the ability and brains to bounce back. I think he's having some growing pains that we get to watch in the NHL. I heard Couturier was quite the player in juniors too… “Oh no he didn’t!” I don’t think he’s stupid either, I just don’t think he is very good defensive instincts. He’s an outright liability in his own end this year and even last year we were talking about his offense of game, not his defense. I’m not saying he was a liability last year, just that he was really only getting praise from one aspect of the game. I have no idea what to expect from him that year, but right now I don’t feel too good about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 hours ago, ruxpin said: That was simply bats##t crazy. Htichcock has a long career and long justifiable reputation of not doing well with young players. Why would you bring him in to work with young players? Joni Pitkanen?? It's arguable that he ruined that kid. That was simply one of the more W.....T.....F posts I've read in a really long time. We now know that BobbyClarkeFan16 is actually Sean Spicer. #alternativefacts I seem to remember someone pointing that out and getting a lot of sh-t for it. He was young, smart, the works! Whatever happened to that nice fella? That's a tough call.I definitely hear you're saying and agreed to a point, but this is Pitkanen we're talking about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Pitkanen never wanted to be in Philadelphia and he was homesick and lonesome. It also didn't help masters that when John Stevens took over, he allowed Todd Fedoruk to take liberties with Pitkanen in practice and beat him up. /offtopic He had problems in Edmonton, too. He opted not to room with any of his teammates, and instead stayed in a hotel downtown, and brought his mother to town to live with him. Ethan Moreau admitted that Pitkanen wasn't a very outgoing person and didn't fit in with the players or the coaches like they thought he would. He noted that Pitkanen often didn't respond when spoken to, and often didn't even make eye contact. Eric Desjardins publicly said that Pitkanen was very immature. I don't know. Odd duck, that one. I agree: can't really put Pitkanen's problems on Ken Hitchcock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: /offtopic He had problems in Edmonton, too. He opted not to room with any of his teammates, and instead stayed in a hotel downtown, and brought his mother to town to live with him. Ethan Moreau admitted that Pitkanen wasn't a very outgoing person and didn't fit in with the players or the coaches like they thought he would. He noted that Pitkanen often didn't respond when spoken to, and often didn't even make eye contact. Eric Desjardins publicly said that Pitkanen was very immature. I don't know. Odd duck, that one. I agree: can't really put Pitkanen's problems on Ken Hitchcock. Not disputing what you're saying but it baffles me that when they are doing all their pre draft research all this goes unnoticed so to speak....it has to be right....it should be a red flag if it was discovered and over looked especially to be the 4th overall pick...yet i guess par for the course for the Flyers scouts back then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: /offtopic He had problems in Edmonton, too. He opted not to room with any of his teammates, and instead stayed in a hotel downtown, and brought his mother to town to live with him. Ethan Moreau admitted that Pitkanen wasn't a very outgoing person and didn't fit in with the players or the coaches like they thought he would. He noted that Pitkanen often didn't respond when spoken to, and often didn't even make eye contact. Eric Desjardins publicly said that Pitkanen was very immature. I don't know. Odd duck, that one. I agree: can't really put Pitkanen's problems on Ken Hitchcock. Interesting stuff. Doesn't explain the nose-picking though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: /offtopic He had problems in Edmonton, too. He opted not to room with any of his teammates, and instead stayed in a hotel downtown, and brought his mother to town to live with him. Ethan Moreau admitted that Pitkanen wasn't a very outgoing person and didn't fit in with the players or the coaches like they thought he would. He noted that Pitkanen often didn't respond when spoken to, and often didn't even make eye contact. Eric Desjardins publicly said that Pitkanen was very immature. I don't know. Odd duck, that one. I agree: can't really put Pitkanen's problems on Ken Hitchcock. Sounds like the hockey version of Bates Motel.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said: This is kind of a problem. If teams are going to go after him and he can’t handle it he has no value. It makes him a liability, as his play has shown. True, but how does he learn to handle it? I think you have to let him play through it and adjust. The tough part about trading him is: when do you pull that trigger? Every other scout in the league sees his struggle, so his value is probably low. But he is RFA at the end of the year and probably won't command a huge bump in pay given his struggles. So maybe that's attractive. if you wait, and keeps struggling next year, then good luck dealing him. I doubt the Flyers will trade him unless they are clearly coming out on top of a trade with a desperate team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Pitkanen never wanted to be in Philadelphia and he was homesick and lonesome. It also didn't help masters that when John Stevens took over, he allowed Todd Fedoruk to take liberties with Pitkanen in practice and beat him up. I'm serious about Hitchcock coaching the defensemen though. The only other coach I think of who has helped their defensemen reach elite status might be Joel Quenneville, maybe Barry Trotz. Other than that, nobody had the record that Hitch has developing young defensemen. Don't believe me? Look at all the active coaches in the NHL and compare them to the job Hitch has d done. Honestly, nobody in the game right now measures up. I get that Hitch had issues developing forwards, but defensemen are his forte. Can we hire him to just work with the D men because he really held back a lot of talented forwards who went on to do good things and win cups with other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 minute ago, King Knut said: Can we hire him to just work with the D men because he really held back a lot of talented forwards who went on to do good things and win cups with other teams. Well i think you have to give a lot of credit to Rick Wilson back in the day working with the Star Dmen not so much Hitchcock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, vis said: True, but how does he learn to handle it? I think you have to let him play through it and adjust. The tough part about trading him is: when do you pull that trigger? Every other scout in the league sees his struggle, so his value is probably low. But he is RFA at the end of the year and probably won't command a huge bump in pay given his struggles. So maybe that's attractive. if you wait, and keeps struggling next year, then good luck dealing him. I doubt the Flyers will trade him unless they are clearly coming out on top of a trade with a desperate team. I don't think there is a rule about how to handle it. Everyone is different. I don't see him working this out on his own (this year), but I also don't think he is mentally tough enough to handle being sent to the minors. There is nothing about him that seems tough for resilient. I think they're just have to wait to see how he plays next year. I don't think they are going to trade him anytime soon, I think that is just us throwing our opinions around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well i think you have to give a lot of credit to Rick Wilson back in the day working with the Star Dmen not so much Hitchcock. I have no interest n Hitch at all... is kinda my point. But someone needs to work with these kids. They can't play along side MDZ and MacDonald and learn much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @fanaticV3.0 you're gonna love this... I watched him play some hockey when he was in college. He made aggressive plays all over the ice, he used his speed to cover his mistakes. He always seemed to be everywhere at once, when he was on the ice he impacted the game. Some of that is skill but some of it is hockey iq too. I don't think he's a stupid player, I think he has the ability and brains to bounce back. I think he's having some growing pains that we get to watch in the NHL. Kinda gives some credence to Hextall's argument that guys should "develop" in the A, don't it? (Not saying you disagree with that). Reading this, I already knew @fanaticV3.0 was gonna mention Couturier, but honestly there's not a lot of opportunity in the NHL to "use speed to cover your mistakes." You have to learn how not to make them in the first place. And doing so in the NHL can be very problematic. Teams build the proverbial "book" on you and know how to exploit weaknesses. Kid came in, flew under the radar, made a big name for himself especially in 3-on-3 and the power play (22 of 46 points were on the pp, 4 of 5 GWGs were in overtime...) And is having trouble in his second year playing 5-on-5? Maybe he just needs to be named an All Star.... Both the pp and OT are places where "speed" can be used much more than it can 5-on-5. Of the "offensively minded" defensemen, Gotstobehere was always the third in line after Provolone and Samhain when it came to projections. I am not advocating trading him for a skate sharpener but if you can solve a big problem by moving him, I would certainly not be against it just because "he could wind up being good somewhere else." If nothing else, this definitely lowers the bar on the "bridge" contract he's going to be getting as an RFA after the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 2 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said: I heard Couturier was quite the player in juniors too… “Oh no he didn’t! I'm glad you hit it after I went through the trouble to tee it up for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 50 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said: I don't see him working this out on his own (this year), but I also don't think he is mentally tough enough to handle being sent to the minors. There is nothing about him that seems tough for resilient. I disagree with this. He's from Florida... you know, the hockey hotbed, he's small, he didn't play major junior ....yet somehow still made it to the NHL. By some miracle, he was a finalist for the Calder trophy. I think he is probably "mentally tough". He's already overcome a bunch of biases. I think a benching or a reassignment won't phase him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, fanaticV3.0 said: I don't think there is a rule about how to handle it. Everyone is different. I don't see him working this out on his own (this year), but I also don't think he is mentally tough enough to handle being sent to the minors. There is nothing about him that seems tough for resilient. I think they're just have to wait to see how he plays next year. I don't think they are going to trade him anytime soon, I think that is just us throwing our opinions around. agree on all points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 36 minutes ago, radoran said: Kinda gives some credence to Hextall's argument that guys should "develop" in the A, don't it? (Not saying you disagree with that). Reading this, I already knew @fanaticV3.0 was gonna mention Couturier, but honestly there's not a lot of opportunity in the NHL to "use speed to cover your mistakes." You have to learn how not to make them in the first place. And doing so in the NHL can be very problematic. Teams build the proverbial "book" on you and know how to exploit weaknesses. Kid came in, flew under the radar, made a big name for himself especially in 3-on-3 and the power play (22 of 46 points were on the pp, 4 of 5 GWGs were in overtime...) And is having trouble in his second year playing 5-on-5? Maybe he just needs to be named an All Star.... Both the pp and OT are places where "speed" can be used much more than it can 5-on-5. Of the "offensively minded" defensemen, Gotstobehere was always the third in line after Provolone and Samhain when it came to projections. I am not advocating trading him for a skate sharpener but if you can solve a big problem by moving him, I would certainly not be against it just because "he could wind up being good somewhere else." If nothing else, this definitely lowers the bar on the "bridge" contract he's going to be getting as an RFA after the season. Is he having trouble playing 5 on 5? He's got the third best Corsi for on the team. Best for a D man. He's not getting quite the time he did last year nor is he skating with the puck the way he did last year and as a result, he's missing the net more. They need to unleash him more and figure out how to compensate for the defensive holes that creates. Beyond that, if they can sort out ways to have him use his skating and coordination skills defensively more, then they need to work on that with him, but that will be it's own invention as no one's ever really done it like that before. Long story short, trying to make him a prototypical two way responsible D man is useless. YOu have Provo for that. You'll have Sanheim for that. That's simply not what Ghost is ever going to be good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 29 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I disagree with this. He's from Florida... you know, the hockey hotbed, he's small, he didn't play major junior ....yet somehow still made it to the NHL. By some miracle, he was a finalist for the Calder trophy. I think he is probably "mentally tough". He's already overcome a bunch of biases. I think a benching or a reassignment won't phase him. Benching him and expecting him to suddenly have a different skill set however will confuse and frustrate him. It's just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't know what his Corsi is, but he was just last night offsides while carrying the puck. also, given - as you note - that he hasn't been hitting the net, his "shots for" aren't all that impressive. When I see hin, I see a player who is having struggles at 5 on 5 which then create "defensive holes" and, quite frankly, isn't good for the team. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 54 minutes ago, radoran said: I don't know what his Corsi is, but he was just last night offsides while carrying the puck. also, given - as you note - that he hasn't been hitting the net, his "shots for" aren't all that impressive. When I see hin, I see a player who is having struggles at 5 on 5 which then create "defensive holes" and, quite frankly, isn't good for the team. YMMV Kind of sounds like the description for G too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, murraycraven said: Kind of sounds like the description for G too It's a fairly accurate description for most of the team. They have any wins at all thanks to the PP. Consistently, they're driving play (with a few exceptions) but they're not scoring when everything would suggest that they should and they're getting scored on when everything would suggest that they shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Podein25 said: I think these are two different things. The one, that people have figured him out, is a question of whether he can adapt, change, grow, develop what have you. I don't think that's the same thing as saying he has a permanently limited skill set. He's mobile and has great offensive instincts. He just needs to become a more complete player. Which is normal at his age. My two cents... Pair him with Provorov and then let's revisit this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 6 hours ago, JR Ewing said: /offtopic He had problems in Edmonton, too. He opted not to room with any of his teammates, and instead stayed in a hotel downtown, and brought his mother to town to live with him. Ethan Moreau admitted that Pitkanen wasn't a very outgoing person and didn't fit in with the players or the coaches like they thought he would. He noted that Pitkanen often didn't respond when spoken to, and often didn't even make eye contact. Eric Desjardins publicly said that Pitkanen was very immature. I don't know. Odd duck, that one. I agree: can't really put Pitkanen's problems on Ken Hitchcock. Yeah, on all counts. And definitely, Pitkanen cannot be put on Hitchcock. I know I came across that way (others took it that way, too) but basically just saying not to ever put him on the list of anyone's success stories. He was a goober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 6 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said: I seem to remember someone pointing that out and getting a lot of sh-t for it. He was young, smart, the works! Whatever happened to that nice fella? That's a tough call.I definitely hear you're saying and agreed to a point, but this is Pitkanen we're talking about here. I overstated the case a bit with Hitchcock/Pitkanen. Hitchcock didn't destroy him. Pitkanen was going to do that all by himself. But just the same, I refuse to believe he was decent for one season BECAUSE of Hitchcock. I'm not buying that no matter how it's packaged. And I don't want Mr. themaker03 anywhere near the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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