OccamsRazor Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, hf101 said: Well, Vandevelde was on the team last year. but no he wasn't recruited by Hakstol. I'm not sure what you mean really, as players such as J. Toews, TJ Oshie, Z. Parise, T Zajac, B. Nelson, A. Dell were coached by Hakstol who are under contract for other NHL teams. So what do you mean by recruiting "his" players? Yeah and Drew Stafford, Taylor Chorney and Matt Greene too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, ruxpin said: J. Toews, TJ Oshie, Z. Parise, T Zajac, B. Nelson, A. Dell were coached by Hakstol. He developed. He couldn't seal the deal. He's a lousy strategist and game day coach. I think there's plenty of NCAA and NHL evidence. He recruited Brock Boser to but he was gone before he started playing too. I'm not defending him and saying he is a great coach at the NHL level, in fact the jury is clearly still out on him. However I think he was a great college coach. Just like Chip Kelly was but just like him things that worked down there is a lesser league just sometimes don't work in the best leagues in the world. And just like Chip he could be shown the door too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I think it was in response to me, but that was part of my point. He didn't win a championship with HIS players in SD. My point there being that he was good at something there (recruiting) that is NOT his responsibility in Philly. I'm theorizing that they won with the same players immediately after he left because he is not a very good game day bench coach (something that IS his responsibility in Philly). He had the players and seemingly did a good job with development (evidenced by the names you listed) but can't get a team to win (evidenced by wins immediately before abs, especially, after his tenure). I'm also theorizing that he's doing a decent job developing our kids, but he's a lousy strategist and game day bench coach. But you don't know if the same team that won the year he left would have won with him behind the bench if he were not recruited by Hextall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I am conflicted, although leaning toward firing Hakstol. On one hand, he doesn't have a lot of talent to deal with. On the other, he I don't think he is at good at in-game adjustments at all nor does he appear to be that good at dealing with veteran players. So, I am ready to try a veteran NHL coach at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, hf101 said: But you don't know if the same team that won the year he left would have won with him behind the bench if he were not recruited by Hextall. No. But I do know the teams he was behind the bench for didn't. I'm unwilling to believe, given the length of his tenure and the names that went through there that it's coincidence or luck that they won nearly immediately before and immediately after. And the comparison to Kelly is on sound in one respect: they both couldn't get it done at any level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I'm not defending him and saying he is a great coach at the NHL level, in fact the jury is clearly still out on him Only if the jury isn't paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: He recruited Brock Boser to but he was gone before he started playing too. I'm not defending him and saying he is a great coach at the NHL level, in fact the jury is clearly still out on him. However I think he was a great college coach. Just like Chip Kelly was but just like him things that worked down there is a lesser league just sometimes don't work in the best leagues in the world. And just like Chip he could be shown the door too. You know, my snark aside, your comparison to Kelly actually goes to my point. They were both better at the college level because they both excelled at something that is not existent at the pro level and a second thing that's only part of it. They were both good at recruiting. I think it's hard to argue against that for either one. I think both were pretty good at player development. I'll defer to you there on kelly, but would you agree? But game day left a lot to be desired at the pro level (Kelly had additional issues). The comparison diverges some on the pro level. Kelly was simply too arrogant to realize the pro game had to alter what he was song, not the other way around. Aside from game planning, he never learned that you can't do it all yourself at the pro level. Hakstol, I believe, is a lousy strategist and lousy bench coach. He is at the pro level, anyway. His lines, use of players, inability to adapt or to make adjustments, game management, etc. is just really subpar. I didn't follow him in college. It's only an assertion, but it's my assertion that he had similar issues in college and that contributed to (of not the reason) they didn't win during his tenure. I realize there are other things that go on, other contributing factors, but I think it's telling they won immediately before and immediately after. I'm happy to be proven wrong, so long as it's proven at the college level. I don't have much interest in the continued failed attempt at the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucked in the head Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 hours ago, ruxpin said: It's almost like I just said that. Wait, I did. I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Unless I'm not following you. Because that's exactly what I was saying. He recruited the right guys. May even have developed the right skills. But he's a horrible game day bench coach and couldn't get it done. Someone else was able to come in behind him, with the same players (his players) and win. I also don't follow the post about not recruiting any of his players now. That was also the point to my post. My point was that he was there 11 yrs ,probably had a hand in recruiting those (college) players but didn't win a championship.... Just because he coached some future NHL stars doesn't qualify him to coach at this level , especially when he couldn't win at the NCAA level even with these future stars on his roster and I might have had more of a point but I got called away for a while but, basically that's about it for now unless I remember later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucked in the head Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 hours ago, hf101 said: Well, Vandevelde was on the team last year. but no he wasn't recruited by Hakstol. I'm not sure what you mean really, as players such as J. Toews, TJ Oshie, Z. Parise, T Zajac, B. Nelson, A. Dell were coached by Hakstol who are under contract for other NHL teams. So what do you mean by recruiting "his" players? I just meant he had nothing to do with the drafting of the players on the roster currently ,he "inherited" them if you will... And even when he had all of the current players mentioned above he still didn't win it all ,so I don't see why they bring him here in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucked in the head Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Philly needs to bring in WINNERS to coach the team not yet another unproven coach. You want to win the cup that's what you do ,stop bringing in mediocre people at best... You get out what you put in... You put schitt in you get schitt out.... Get a real coach if you want a real chance to win.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 7 hours ago, flyer4ever said: Lindberg i have been around for the ride since 1969 when Clarke was a rookie. Saw his 1st game at MLG. Never missed a Flyer game in Toronto in his career. Was at his HOF induction. Clarke is the way hockey was meant to be played. All in all the time. Nobody on this Flyer team is wired like him. Pro hockey is not kindergarten. If you are part of the everybody gets a ribbon brigade you are part of the problem, not the solution. Making the playoffs this year will stunt the development of this team. I personally would like to see another cup or 6 before I'm gone. That should be the goal of everyone in the organization, but IMO that is not true right now. Watching this current team is not a ride that impresses me. I've been following the Flyers since Parent came back to the Flyers in a trade with the Leafs, Clarke and the rest of the crew in the 70's was what it meant to be a Flyer but the guy who gave them the confidence to play that way was Bernie Parent. Nobody could match Clarke's work ethic but the Flyers don't win those cups without Parent in the net (which is something the current Flyers don't have). And I'm not part of the ribbon brigade because I ***** hate when sports organizations give out participation medals for just showing up . This generation and the one before it don't know what it means to play a sport to win and be pissed when they lose. I hate the new NHL, it's nothing more than glorified shinny hockey where small players can skate around using their sticks without having to worry if someone was going to beat the **** out of them. I love to see the NHL go back to the high flying eighties when there was lots of goals, the goalies had smaller equipment, there was no instigation rule and there was hitting! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't agree with your statement that this year's playoffs will stunt the development of the team but that's just me, in fact, it gives Hextall an idea what areas he has to concentrate on going forward. It will give the young Flyer players who haven't played in the playoffs an idea what playoff hockey is like which isn't a bad thing. Hextall has a plan and he's sticking to it. He's building through the draft just like other teams like Chicago and LA did and unless he's drafting in the top 5 then getting a little playoff experience doesn't hurt (if the Flyers did miss the playoffs this year, they'd probably being drafting 14th or 15th overall, last year's 2nd overall was a gift). And I believe Hextall's goal is the same as yours, winning the cup, it's just taking a bit longer than some Flyers fans want or willing to wait for. Hell I've been waiting for over 40 years to see them win another cup, so what's another couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Pucked in the head said: My point was that he was there 11 yrs ,probably had a hand in recruiting those (college) players but didn't win a championship.... Just because he coached some future NHL stars doesn't qualify him to coach at this level , especially when he couldn't win at the NCAA level even with these future stars on his roster and I might have had more of a point but I got called away for a while but, basically that's about it for now unless I remember later Okay cool. That's pretty much what I was saying, so we agree. And lol @ may have had more of a point. Been there (some would say in every post of mine!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 9 hours ago, ruxpin said: No. But I do know the teams he was behind the bench for didn't. I'm unwilling to believe, given the length of his tenure and the names that went through there that it's coincidence or luck that they won nearly immediately before and immediately after. And the comparison to Kelly is on sound in one respect: they both couldn't get it done at any level. I hear ya loud and clear, rux. Fire Hakstol this year. Next year, Cup = ours. We should have fired him sooner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 8 hours ago, Pucked in the head said: Philly needs to bring in WINNERS to coach the team not yet another unproven coach. You want to win the cup that's what you do ,stop bringing in mediocre people at best... You get out what you put in... You put schitt in you get schitt out.... Get a real coach if you want a real chance to win.... Exactly who are you speaking of to hire as a replacement for Hakstol? You post as if there is a line outside Hextall's door of Stanley Cup winning coaches to select from. Hextall hired Kris Knoblauch last June as an assistant coach to Hakstol who was the head coach of the Erie Otters. His record included a second place finish in the OHL playoffs in 2014-15, the OHL championship in 2016-17, and a runner-up performance in the 2017 Memorial Cup, and the league’s best regular-season record in 2015-16. He was named OHL coach of the year in 2015-16. Currently, Knoblauch is in charge of the Flyers PP. My guess is he could be Hakstol's replacement at some point but not next season. These young successful coaches are all a part of Hextall's plan of building a team for the future. Hextall took the Flyers GM job to rebuild the entire organization changing the previous mentality that you can buy a cup. Hextall has currently drafted talented cornerstones has installed young successful coaches to build the foundation. That is where this team is at, it's a process and their time for success is not now. Thus give it a rest. Hakstol isn't getting fired anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, hf101 said: Exactly who are you speaking of to hire as a replacement for Hakstol? You post as if there is a line outside Hextall's door of Stanley Cup winning coaches to select from. Hextall hired Kris Knoblauch last June as an assistant coach to Hakstol who was the head coach of the Erie Otters. His record included a second place finish in the OHL playoffs in 2014-15, the OHL championship in 2016-17, and a runner-up performance in the 2017 Memorial Cup, and the league’s best regular-season record in 2015-16. He was named OHL coach of the year in 2015-16. Currently, Knoblauch is in charge of the Flyers PP. My guess is he could be Hakstol's replacement at some point but not next season. These young successful coaches are all a part of Hextall's plan of building a team for the future. Hextall took the Flyers GM job to rebuild the entire organization changing the existing mentality that you can buy a cup. Hextall has currently drafted talented cornerstones has installed young successful coaches to build the foundation. That is where this team is at, it's a process and their time for success is not now. Thus give it a rest. Hakstol isn't getting fired anytime soon. Well he needs to at least show Murphy and Lappy the door at season's end. Hak I think gets to the length of his contract and I don't mean he has to finish his last year it could be a couple weeks in and Hexy don't like the ways it's going he could pull the plug like they did on Lavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, brelic said: I hear ya loud and clear, rux. Fire Hakstol this year. Next year, Cup = ours. We should have fired him sooner! That's the spirit! (It kind of worked when the Eagles fired Chip Kelly. It's gotta work here. It's only logical ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well he needs to at least show Murphy and Lappy the door at season's end. We might see one or both of them gone, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, hf101 said: We might see one or both of them gone, I don't know. Well i hope both. It's time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, hf101 said: Exactly who are you speaking of to hire as a replacement for Hakstol? You post as if there is a line outside Hextall's door of Stanley Cup winning coaches to select from. Hextall hired Kris Knoblauch last June as an assistant coach to Hakstol who was the head coach of the Erie Otters. His record included a second place finish in the OHL playoffs in 2014-15, the OHL championship in 2016-17, and a runner-up performance in the 2017 Memorial Cup, and the league’s best regular-season record in 2015-16. He was named OHL coach of the year in 2015-16. Currently, Knoblauch is in charge of the Flyers PP. My guess is he could be Hakstol's replacement at some point but not next season. These young successful coaches are all a part of Hextall's plan of building a team for the future. Hextall took the Flyers GM job to rebuild the entire organization changing the previous mentality that you can buy a cup. Hextall has currently drafted talented cornerstones has installed young successful coaches to build the foundation. That is where this team is at, it's a process and their time for success is not now. Thus give it a rest. Hakstol isn't getting fired anytime soon. Well said HF, Hextall is trying to model the organization like Chicago and LA but it's going to take time. He has his potential number one defenseman in Provorov and potential number one centre in Patrick and number two centre in Couturier not to mention rebuilding their farm system. And he's hoping he found a number one goalie in Hart but he's years away. Hakstol will probably be on a short leash and we'll see what happens with him. It would be nice to have a goalie that will give the Flyers consistent goaltending until Hart is ready because you can see the frustration on the Flyers players in this series with Elliot. He **** the bed in game one, played great in game two and has played like **** since then. If you look at all the cup winners in the past 10 or 20 years, they all had consistent to great goaltending that allowed them to take chances in the offensive zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 12 hours ago, ruxpin said: It's almost like I just said that. Wait, I did. I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Unless I'm not following you. Because that's exactly what I was saying. He recruited the right guys. May even have developed the right skills. But he's a horrible game day bench coach and couldn't get it done. Someone else was able to come in behind him, with the same players (his players) and win. I also don't follow the post about not recruiting any of his players now. That was also the point to my post. I don't understand how this wasn't understood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 hours ago, hf101 said: Currently, Knoblauch is in charge of the Flyers PP. My guess is he could be Hakstol's replacement at some point but not next season. These young successful coaches are all a part of Hextall's plan of building a team for the future. Hextall took the Flyers GM job to rebuild the entire organization changing the previous mentality that you can buy a cup. Hextall has currently drafted talented cornerstones has installed young successful coaches to build the foundation. That is where this team is at, it's a process and their time for success is not now. Thus give it a rest. Hakstol isn't getting fired anytime soon. that is wonderful and all but none of this actually means Hak should not be fired. Sorry, if Filp is at 1C tonight and Sanheim is in the rafters while Manning and Gudas are paired together he deserves to be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 19 hours ago, ruxpin said: Yeah, oddly MacDonald hasn't been a concern for me. I agree he's not $4.5M good, b How about $5M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Pucked in the head said: Philly needs to bring in WINNERS to coach the team not yet another unproven coach. You want to win the cup that's what you do ,stop bringing in mediocre people at best... You get out what you put in... You put schitt in you get schitt out.... Get a real coach if you want a real chance to win.... You know, it's interesting to me that Laviolette got back to the Finals - and could be poised to do so again - but the Flyers haven't been out of the first round. When they even make the playoffs... Maybe it wasn't the coach's fault that the team played totally flat with no emotion. Maybe these players just aren't as good as their point totals and press clippings. I certainly haven't seen anything that leads me to believe they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 11 hours ago, FD19372 said: I am conflicted, although leaning toward firing Hakstol. On one hand, he doesn't have a lot of talent to deal with. On the other, he I don't think he is at good at in-game adjustments at all nor does he appear to be that good at dealing with veteran players. So, I am ready to try a veteran NHL coach at this point. Like you, I thought Hakstol did a good job at times during the season with a roster lacking in talent and having a number of young players. I think he got a good deal out of them at times. I also like that he didn't panic and continued to show faith in his players. By all accounts, this meant a lot to the players and helped them pull through the difficult times. However, it was evident during the season, and maybe moreso in these playoffs, that he does not have a sense of the game at times and his personnel. Usage of certain players is questionable at times. He also seems to lack any sort of "command" behind the bench. I get that some would call it stoic. But there is a time and place for being more assertive and I have yet to see that. And the team reflects his unassertiveness, which is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, radoran said: You know, it's interesting to me that Laviolette got back to the Finals - and could be poised to do so again - but the Flyers haven't been out of the first round. When they even make the playoffs... Maybe it wasn't the coach's fault that the team played totally flat with no emotion. Maybe these players just aren't as good as their point totals and press clippings. I certainly haven't seen anything that leads me to believe they are. well, I think you have a fair point. I felt a hell of a lot better with Lavy behind the bench than "one of the brightest hockey minds" in Berube and Hak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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