Bring Tavares to Philly

[radoran]

22 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Could it??

 

I would think put putting the 30 goal scorer on the 3rd would piss him off.

 

How about..

 

Tavares

Coots

Patrick

???

 

I'm more comfortable with Couturier in the "shut down" role than a second year player. But I see this as 2 and 2B lines.

[radoran]

8 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

Couturier asks for a bigger offensive role and then proceeds to put up 30 goals and 70 points...how do we reward him? By putting him back down onto the 3rd line the following season.

 

We do that and Couturier likely asks for a trade out of Philly IMO

 

Well, this is why Tavares doesn't really work.

 

But Simmonds on one side and Frost on the other (as was suggested) isn't exactly where offense goes to die.

[King Knut]

On 4/24/2018 at 1:59 PM, elmatus said:

I know this has been mentioned in another thread, but I do believe it deserves more attention.

 

I fully expect people will have mixed feelings at this kind of move. From my standpoint, if Hexy has the opportunity to bring in a 27 year old gamebreaker like Tavares, I think he needs to give it some serious consideration.

 

Acquiring a guy like Tavares is not the same as getting an Evander Kane or a John Carlson or whatever other names have been floating around here. In my view, Tavares has a level of talent above anyone on our current roster -- yes, including Giroux. That kind of player generally cannot be signed while still in their prime. These are players teams will purposely tank to acquire. To sign a guy like that makes us tremendously better immediately, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind.

 

Yeah, he'd be expensive, but guess how many up and coming teams are about to have 20-25million in cap space next season? I'll give you a hint: It's a very short list.

 

Even if we need to tie up 10 million for seven years, I believe he would still be 100% worth it. With the right supporting cast -- something he has never had in NY -- this is a guy who can challenge 100 pts a year into his 30s. What's better? Having Tavares means a guy like Giroux cannot be double and triple teamed every game. Somewhere, someone's going to deliver the pain.

 

Consider a comparison to the *puke* Pens. Crosby is great, but a team that only has to worry about Crosby can probably shut him down and win. One of the main problems with Pittsburgh is the line up doesn't end with Crosby. That's why they have three cups in the last decade. That's why they're a top contender again this season as well.

 

Can Patrick become that kind of player? Maybe... but I like sure bets myself. We know Tavares has that ability. Worst case scenario, we're set with a rather impressive trio of Tavares, Couturier, and Patrick for the next whatever years. That is astonishing to say the least, and it would go a long way towards giving us the kind of depth required to elevate our game into contender territory in a hurry.

 

Is he enough? Well, he's not a goalie. So no, just adding him is unlikely to be enough right away. But it would be one hell of a step forward.

 

Bottom line, this kind of opportunity is virtually unheard of. Would the Flyers be a frontrunner to sign him at all? Who knows? Probably not. There's always a solid chance he just resigns in NY in the end. But, if I'm John Tavares, and I want to play for a team with a bright potential future... I could do a lot worse than the Flyers...

 

@brelic, #GetHexyOnThePhone

 

They can definitely afford it this year, but next year things start to get interesting.  

 

Frankly, I tend to agree with you.  I think they're more in need of a Wing or two, but you want to play the  best players and Tavares is one of the best in the league right now.  Putting him with Giroux or with Voracek or Weal or Simmonds should be a thing of beauty that will make all of them much  better.

 

What I truly like about it is that games 5 and 6 shows us that Coots isn't Giroux dependent to be great.  

 

I don't know if I think Tavares is interested in coming to Philly... but he may not be interested in being a complete and TOTAL jack ass to the Isles fans and choosing the Rangers.  

 

Then again, he may choose to go out west in San Jose or someplace.  The Habs and Leafs probably can't make a competitive offer.  I don't know if he was a Leafs or Senators fan growing up, but the Senators could try to make a play and that wouldn't be terrible for him or for them keeping Karlsson next year.  

 

But if he wants to start winning cups, I'd guess Philly and San Jose... maybe the Jets are his safer bets that can afford a serious offer.   

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

Well, this is why Tavares doesn't really work.

 

 

Too bad he can't play right wing...

 

Giroux-Coots- Tavares

 

That would be a nice top line...

 

Lindblom-Patrick-Jake

 

A solid 2nd line too...

 

...someone slap me i'm dreamin aloud again...

 

 

[King Knut]

38 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Too bad he can't play right wing...

 

Giroux-Coots- Tavares

 

That would be a nice top line...

 

Lindblom-Patrick-Jake

 

A solid 2nd line too...

 

...someone slap me i'm dreamin aloud again...

 

 

 

I bet he can play RW if you ask nicely and give him $10 million. 

 

I say go for it.  This would instantly make the Flyers so damn good it wouldn’t be funny. It would literally be like adding a second Giroux. 

 

I think you make him an offer and see if he’s at all interested.  It really will be up to him.  We have the cap room. 

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I bet he can play RW if you ask nicely and give him $10 million. 

 

I say go for it.  This would instantly make the Flyers so damn good it wouldn’t be funny. It would literally be like adding a second Giroux. 

 

I think you make him an offer and see if he’s at all interested.  It really will be up to him.  We have the cap room. 

 

I can't see the Isles letting him go and being left empty handed.

 

But if he doesn't want to sign then he doesn't want to sign.

 

Should have moved him this past deadline for a goldmine.

 

Why does something tell me if he leaves it could be for Toronto...

[OccamsRazor]

If he does walk than they should walk Garth Snow off the plank...

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Why does something tell me if he leaves it could be for Toronto...

 

Maybe because that's his hometown?

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Maybe because that's his hometown?

 

Oh well didn't know that....so yeah even a better reason...that is if he wants to play in his home town...now he has his chance.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Maybe because that's his hometown?

 

Well I guess now that I think about it more would be be the 2nd line center to Auston Matthews?

 

 

Yeah he might not want to play second fiddle.

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well I guess now that I think about it more would be be the 2nd line center to Auston Matthews?

 

 

Yeah he might not want to play second fiddle.

 

 

I think after playing in Purgatory, he may not care if he is a 2nd liner.  Leafs are a young team with a great upside and that combined with the hometown thing may be enough to lure him to Toronto.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Why does something tell me if he leaves it could be for Toronto...

 

I don't know if Tronno wants to pick up 8Y/$10M with all their young talent that's going to need to be re-signed in the relatively near future...

 

But crazier things have happened.

[ruxpin]

I actually don't agree that the islanders forwards are the dumpster fire people are claiming.  Whatever his production has been in Long Island, you can expect as much as similar here.  You can hope for 3-5 years barring injury before we have a thread a night on this very board complaining about his contract and/or creative ways to ditch it.   That, and heaping portions of "I'll drive him to the airport myself" posts. 

 

And still not have had a cup and our window closed because we didn't bother to get a goalie or a winger (what we really need) and had to trade Konecny for some schmuck because we didn't have the cap room to extend him. 

 

I'll pass. We don't need a center. We're good there {we do need a 3C).  We need other things that will improve us much faster. 

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I don't know if Tronno wants to pick up 8Y/$10M with all their young talent that's going to need to be re-signed in the relatively near future...

 

But crazier things have happened.

 

 

Good point and yes crazier things have happened.

[mojo1917]

I think as a general principle "bring a ++ player in to improve the roster " is solid.

I don't know if John Tavares is that guy though, the thought of G and JT and TK makes me feel funny, I will admit.

 

Rux and others, who've been advocating for goaltending help and an impact winger seems to make the most sense to me.

The pipeline is full of centermen.  One of the 90,000 we have in the system will eventually find a way into the 3C roll and the guy pushing him can play on the 4th line.

 

I don't know that we're those two players away from destroying the league, but we are those two players away from being a threat to win a couple of playoff rounds which is the next step.

 

There is talent on this team.   Simmond's exit interview revealed he was broken all season and still put up almost 50 pts, and that dude is on the 3rd line...  I hope he is resigned. I like him, he's a character guy all around.  He may take more than the summer to recover, but barring further injury he may have a Patrick type injury recovery where he's on the mend during the stretch run.

 

My hope is moves are made to improve the roster in a tangible way, I don't need "ohh, shiny" but I would like to see a run at Holtby, or a move to bring in a talented winger who is languishing playing in the capital of Canada...or a guy in the Jets system who is only big fast and smart not giant fast and smart. 

 

I have to say this team exceeded my expectations this year, I would like to have seen more of the young guys get their ojt as opposed to Weiss Manning et al but truly, this year was an improvement. 

 

 

 

[swflyers28]

We need some decent wingers.  Maybe another decent defenseman to push Gudas to the 7th d-man.

 

 Wingers UFAs:  Riley Nash,  Matt Calvert, Thomas Vanek, Patrick Maroon, Kulemin, Evander Kane, Tyler Bozak, James Neal or Paul Stastny

Defense UFAs:  John Carlson, Jack Johnson, Mike Green (for cheap), Alexei Emelin, Calvin DeHaan, Sustr (he's big), Toby Enstrom.

[FD19372]

50 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think as a general principle "bring a ++ player in to improve the roster " is solid.

I don't know if John Tavares is that guy though, the thought of G and JT and TK makes me feel funny, I will admit.

 

Rux and others, who've been advocating for goaltending help and an impact winger seems to make the most sense to me.

The pipeline is full of centermen.  One of the 90,000 we have in the system will eventually find a way into the 3C roll and the guy pushing him can play on the 4th line.

 

I don't know that we're those two players away from destroying the league, but we are those two players away from being a threat to win a couple of playoff rounds which is the next step.

 

There is talent on this team.   Simmond's exit interview revealed he was broken all season and still put up almost 50 pts, and that dude is on the 3rd line...  I hope he is resigned. I like him, he's a character guy all around.  He may take more than the summer to recover, but barring further injury he may have a Patrick type injury recovery where he's on the mend during the stretch run.

 

My hope is moves are made to improve the roster in a tangible way, I don't need "ohh, shiny" but I would like to see a run at Holtby, or a move to bring in a talented winger who is languishing playing in the capital of Canada...or a guy in the Jets system who is only big fast and smart not giant fast and smart. 

 

I have to say this team exceeded my expectations this year, I would like to have seen more of the young guys get their ojt as opposed to Weiss Manning et al but truly, this year was an improvement. 

 

 

 

Maybe you're overthinking it. Putting an All-Star player like Tavares on that line makes it even more dangerous. He doesn't take games off like Voracek.

[Lindbergh31]

18 minutes ago, swflyers28 said:

We need some decent wingers.  Maybe another decent defenseman to push Gudas to the 7th d-man.

 

 Wingers UFAs:  Riley Nash,  Matt Calvert, Thomas Vanek, Patrick Maroon, Kulemin, Evander Kane, Tyler Bozak, James Neal or Paul Stastny

Defense UFAs:  John Carlson, Jack Johnson, Mike Green (for cheap), Alexei Emelin, Calvin DeHaan, Sustr (he's big), Toby Enstrom.

Mike Green might not be bad if he's cheap, he's a right-handed shot which would help out on the second powerplay unit. Hexie has his work cut out for him this summer but the Flyers definitely need a goalie!

[ruxpin]

20 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Maybe you're overthinking it. Putting an All-Star player like Tavares on that line makes it even more dangerous. He doesn't take games off like Voracek.

I disagree. If you need a car, you doing go buy a refrigerator. I don't care how good the refrigerator is. 

 

Taveras would be foolish short term and a disaster long term.  We need summer and goalie and a 3C. Taveras is none of those things. It's $10m/yr for something we don't need and for someone who scored 8 more points than our current 1C and was - 12 to our current guy's +34.

 

Get a goalie, a 3C and hopefully a scoring winger and we're better off than this year.   Get the PK just to middle of league and it's a different ballgame altogether. Tavares does none of that. All he does is create a weird situation for a lot of money and all of our problems remain. 

 

As for not taking games off, this year was different but he usually takes the first two months off.

 

I'll pass and use resources more effectively. 

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Too bad he can't play right wing...

 

Giroux-Coots- Tavares

 

That would be a nice top line...

 

Lindblom-Patrick-Jake

 

A solid 2nd line too...

 

...someone slap me i'm dreamin aloud again...

 

 

 

He played RW for TC at the WJs...phenomenally. 

 

As mentioned though...he doesn't play goal. Or defence. And those are the areas that need fixing. And we already have one extremely high priced winger. 

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I can't see the Isles letting him go and being left empty handed.

 

But if he doesn't want to sign then he doesn't want to sign.

 

Should have moved him this past deadline for a goldmine.

 

Why does something tell me if he leaves it could be for Toronto...

 

You say that like the Isles have much of a say in the matter at this point.  They moved to Brooklyn for him and that didn’t work and now they’re homeless and missed the playoffs.  

 

Toronto would be be a good home for him and we could sign Bozak if they got him, but their cap situation is a lot more restrictive than the Flyers this year. 

 

They do have $15 mil or so opening up in UFAs if they don’t resign anyone. But that’s 5 key roster roles they’d then have to fill whereas the flyers literally don’t need to fill any of the roles they’re losing from outside if they don’t have to and the only one that’s key is Filppula’s which clearly needs improvement.  Toronto also has to resign RFA Nylander. 

 

Of Toronto wants to sign Tavares and let us sign Bozak and Nylander, I’ll take that in a heartbeat. 

[mojo1917]

11 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Maybe you're overthinking it. Putting an All-Star player like Tavares on that line makes it even more dangerous. He doesn't take games off like Voracek.

I could be, that's fair. A top line of Giroux, Tavares, and Koneckny would be hella fun to watch play.

To me, John Tavares represents 0 cap flexibility down the road. So if he is targeted, I think one of Voracek or Simmonds goes. Most likely Voracek and he's 85pts to replace.

The Flyers would still have 16-18m per year tied up in two players, still have the same weakness on the roster, with the addition of having to replace 60 to 90pts.  

JT isn't coming here for 4 years, you know? 

HIs money would mean less for guys the Flyers developed who could be cornerstones.

Having said all that, it could be time to look outside of the Flyers system and use the assets acquired to improve the club.

i"m not opposed to that in the least. 

 

 

[brelic]

34 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I could be, that's fair. A top line of Giroux, Tavares, and Koneckny would be hella fun to watch play.

To me, John Tavares represents 0 cap flexibility down the road. So if he is targeted, I think one of Voracek or Simmonds goes. Most likely Voracek and he's 85pts to replace.

The Flyers would still have 16-18m per year tied up in two players, still have the same weakness on the roster, with the addition of having to replace 60 to 90pts.  

JT isn't coming here for 4 years, you know? 

HIs money would mean less for guys the Flyers developed who could be cornerstones.

Having said all that, it could be time to look outside of the Flyers system and use the assets acquired to improve the club.

i"m not opposed to that in the least. 

 

 

 

If you replace Voracek with JT, you've effectively covered the point production issue. Of course, you're replacing a winger with a center. But production is production.

 

The more I think about it, and having read that article about Simmonds wanting to finish his career here, how he is 'bad cop' to Giroux's 'good cop', and how much he is valued in the community, I'm kinda feeling - at least today - that keeping Simmonds and extending him until he's 35 would be a better *team* move than trading him and keeping Voracek.

 

We can just do nothing and keep both, of course. 85 points from JV is 85 points. 

 

 

[mojo1917]

12 hours ago, swflyers28 said:

Wingers UFAs:  Riley Nash,  Matt Calvert, Thomas Vanek, Patrick Maroon, Kulemin, Evander Kane, Tyler Bozak, James Neal or Paul Stastny

Paul Stastny  or ugh, that's not a lot of great options. I don't know what I'd think about bringing Maroon back, would he be interested ? how would his game fit ?

 

I think SJ will try to lock Kane down because he's been excellent for them and is doing all the right things to repair his image. His image suffered because he was bored in winterpeg? I don't get the surly Buffalo business, he could have been a leader there,...anyway he's in a honeymoon phase with the Sharks. I think he may now be "woke" in regards to how his behavior affects his fortunes.

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, brelic said:

Of course, you're replacing a winger with a center. But production is production.

 

I'm not sure that's the case.  Because you have to add in what production is diminished by moving another center down roster.

 

For example, assume you're slotting Tavares in at 1C and that necessitates putting Couturier back at 3C.   Does Couturier still get 75 points?   Hard to say with certainty, but I would argue no.   And someone has to play RW.   Who plays that gets close to Voracek's production -- enough that it compensates for the reduction of Couturier?    Maybe Coots goes to 2C and Patrick goes to 3C.   I don't think Patrick is a good fit there, but at the very least his potential production is reduced.

 

Tavares has played RW and has done very well there, albeit on a limited basis.   So maybe you slot in Tavares in the spot that Voracek was in and that solves the issue at C (although still needing a 3C).    But then, what was the point of that switch?   Tavares scores more, but the points are a dead heat.    So, you've exchanged an $8.25M contract with 6 years for probably a $10M+ contract for 8 years or whatever the limit is for one point?

 

Again, if my need is a range and a dishwasher, I'm not going out and getting a new fridge but still not being able to cook my food or wash my dishes.   It's fun to think about in a fantasy way, but realistically it's a really bad move.

 

I started out saying I wouldn't be upset if they did this but think it's a bad idea.   The more I'm thinking about it, the more I think I'd really be irritated if they did this.  I think it Holmgrenesque kills their chances in the next 5 years.