radoran Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, King Knut said: But it'd help if everyone here and on twitter and what not could promise not to be short sighted complainers. Word of advice: ignore Twitter It's also a situation where on the one hand "they just beat STL on the road" and "they'd be leading the Pacific division" while on the other "they need to fix a bottom six problem or they're sunk because they can't win on the road." There are just as many folks who are pie in the sky optimists as there are shortsighted complainers. Again, I'm happy if they "fix the bottom six problem." Thrilled. It just seems like there's always a "problem" that this team that has underachieved for seven years needs to fix and then they'll be great. They needed a second line center. They needed more vets on the back end. They needed a new coaching staff. They have all of that and now the "reason" is that they need to fix the bottom six. "Fixing the bottom six" doesn't improve a power play that's 20th in the league. The bottom six isn't why they're 17th in the league in goals or 16th in GFA. Yes, there have been injuries and that certainly needs to be taken into account. But they're actually 11th in Goals Against, 10th in GAA and 8th on the PK. They need better and more consistent play from the guys who are paid to be the impact players. Giroux is on pace for 57 points. Voracek is on pace for 62. Couturier is on pace to lead the team with 70. There are already four guys in the league with 70+ points, and 12 with more than 57. Couturier is 40th in the league in points. Voracek is 66th. Giroux is 91st. I readily acknowledge that the bottom six is "an issue" but I'm not convinced it is the issue and that adding a 2LW or a 3RW is "the difference" between "making the playoffs" and "getting to the second round." This team - as currently constructed - should be good enough to make the playoffs. The top six simply hasn't been getting it done. So, basically, I'd like to see the guys that are supposed to be the impact players on this team actually be impact players. And if they do make the playoffs to "get to the second round" they're going to need much more then the 17 combined points Giroux, Voracek, and Couturier have in their past thirty combined playoff games (Couturier with nine of those in six games) regardless of what happens with the bottom six. Edited January 31, 2020 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 https://www.inquirer.com/flyers/dave-scott-philadelphia-flyers-alain-vigneault-ron-hextall-kevin-hayes-improvement-20200131.html FWIW, the article has quotes from Scott and Fletch saying they're looking for a 4C, so bottom six upgrade. That tells me Ghost would not be the one going the other way. Potential players mentioned in the article - Bonino, Staal, Eriksson Ek, Carter, and Pageau. Pageau would be the most expensive one and riskiest, as he could end up being a rental. Given this season as a statistical outlier for him, I wouldn't go near it. Like @radoran says, these next 12 games will make or break the season, and let Fletcher know what makes sense to do given where they are in the standings at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, brelic said: the article has quotes from Scott "definitely a playoff team" Never gets old, that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, radoran said: Word of advice: ignore Twitter I follow Journalists on Twitter. 1 hour ago, radoran said: Again, I'm happy if they "fix the bottom six problem." Thrilled. It just seems like there's always a "problem" that this team that has underachieved for seven years needs to fix and then they'll be great. They needed a second line center. They needed more vets on the back end. They needed a new coaching staff. This sounds familiar and tired. YES. there is always a problem with EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE THAT DID NOT WIN THE CUP. And usually even with the team that just did. Just to be clear on this team's "problems" IMHO, the biggest problem is that their 2C/3C ended up having a weird non-hockey related Migraine condition and their 2LW/3LW got cancer. I'd be pretty comfortable with this team this year and I'd wager had neither of those things happened, we'd be having very different conversations on this board. 7 years ago the problem was Homer lost his damned mind and traded the core for a handful of magic beans at exactly the moment Pronger got speared in the eye and lost his career, Homer then traded JVR for Luke Schenn, Signed Bryzgalov, dumped Bobrovsky, didn't re-up Jagr and signed VLC. Everything between then and the start of last season was an inevitable waiting game. Last year I contended and still do (and this is more or less born out by Gordon's tenure) was the coaching staff. 1 hour ago, radoran said: They need better and more consistent play from the guys who are paid to be the impact players. Giroux is on pace for 57 points. Voracek is on pace for 62. Couturier is on pace to lead the team with 70. There are already four guys in the league with 70+ points, and 12 with more than 57. Couturier is 40th in the league in points. Voracek is 66th. Giroux is 91st. I just don't agree with this. Edmonton has two of these 70 point guys. The top two actually. How's that working out for them? The Stanley Cup Champions last year had point leaders of 70, 68, 54 and 46. How'd that work out for them? What about the Penguins? They exactly one player with more points than any Flyer (Malkin) who has 50 (compared to Coots' 43). Yet they're in 2nd place. The league leading Capitals have 2. The Oilers, Maple Leafs, Sabres, Blackhawks, Rangers, Jets, Golden Knights, all have players with more points than any Flyer and they're all worse than the Flyers. The Flyers problem isn't that they don't score enough goals or that their top guys don't score enough goals, it's that they give up too many goals (usually in the first two periods) on the road. That's really what's put them off the pace. If you REQUIRE multiple hundred point scorers on your team to be competitive in today's NHL, you will not be competitive in today's NHL. The game is about controlling play, not scoring tons of goals. 1 hour ago, radoran said: I readily acknowledge that the bottom six is "an issue" but I'm not convinced it is the issue and that adding a 2LW or a 3RW is "the difference" between "making the playoffs" and "getting to the second round." This team - as currently constructed - should be good enough to make the playoffs. The top six simply hasn't been getting it done. So here's the difference I guess: I'm saying the top 6 are playing well and doing what it takes to win games when AV cannot control who is on the ice against whom. What you're saying is that the top 6 are not playing better enough to make up for the bottom 6 when AV cannot control who is on the ice against whom. In some ways, it's a matter of perspective I guess, but the question I'm left with at the end of the day is what's going to be more realistic for a team that spent up to the cap: Fixing it's top 6 or fixing it's bottom 6? You can want more out of Giroux, Jake, JVR and Hayes I guess but your options there are trying to replace them and just hoping they do better neither one seems very actionable. I'm trying to see the problems on the team that can actually be fixed in the next three years. 1 hour ago, radoran said: I readily acknowledge that the bottom six is "an issue" but I'm not convinced it is the issue and that adding a 2LW or a 3RW is "the difference" between "making the playoffs" and "getting to the second round." This team - as currently constructed - should be good enough to make the playoffs. The top six simply hasn't been getting it done. So, basically, I'd like to see the guys that are supposed to be the impact players on this team actually be impact players. And if they do make the playoffs to "get to the second round" they're going to need much more then the 17 combined points Giroux, Voracek, and Couturier have in their past thirty combined playoff games (Couturier with nine of those in six games) regardless of what happens with the bottom six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, King Knut said: I follow Journalists on Twitter. Our of curiosity, who are the "shortsighted" journalists to which you referred? 1 hour ago, King Knut said: I'm trying to see the problems on the team that can actually be fixed in the next three years. OK, I thought the conversation was about making a move rightnow to lift the team into the playoffs this year. They sure as heck have to improve the bottom six in the offseason. No question. But this discussion this derives from was about trading Ghost for someone like Toffoli or Kapanen or Johnsson to improve the bottom six so they can compete better in the road games over the next 12 critical games of the season and get them into the playoffs where they would then advance past the first round for the first time in seven years. So as we compare the Flyers to teams that have actually won playoff rounds on a more or less consistent basis over the past seven years, let's keep that in mind. Those teams have won playoff rounds. The Flyers have not. Let's get into the playoffs and win a round and we can look towards whether or not they're on the same level as teams that have won the Stanley Cup in recent memory. My point, for the record, was that the team as constructed should be good enough to make the playoffs. As they sit two points out of the playoffs in the East rightnow, that's not that far fetched a concept. They need to go do it. Further, once they do get into the playoffs, they're going to need more than the 4 points each in the past 12 playoff games that Giroux and Voracek have managed and they're going to need Couturier to be the guy that had nine points in five games the last time he was in the playoffs. And, again, they can do it, but they need to actually do it. Finally, when looking ahead, the Flyers have nine forwards signed and the prossibility of Frost and Ratcliffe coming up, and even Patrick coming back. That alone gives them more depth than they have now without the need to make a deal. As always, if a good deal is there, then go make it. Edited January 31, 2020 by radoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 2:46 PM, radoran said: Our of curiosity, who are the "shortsighted" journalists to which you referred? Some of them play up the ignorant angle on stuff seemingly to appeal to the ire of their readers. On 1/31/2020 at 2:46 PM, radoran said: My point, for the record, was that the team as constructed should be good enough to make the playoffs. As they sit two points out of the playoffs in the East rightnow, that's not that far fetched a concept. They need to go do it. I agree if we mean the team as constructed on opening day. As of the last game, they're only icing 3 rookies / minor leaguers. But they have needed as many as 5 or 6 some nights. Farabee might keep breaking out if he plays with Coots the rest of the year, but knowing AV, he's going to swap him with someone else who needs help. Kube and Bunny are trying their best and doing better. Ruby was okay his last stint, but the others haven't been great. I know the top 6/7 should be good good enough to make the playoffs, but in today's NHL, if you have a decent system and Decent D, having a decent bottom 6 can in fact make up for having a mediocre top 6. The good news is, I thought the bottom 6 played a hell of a game against the Penguins in Pittsburgh and that night, indeed your assessment held out. The Top guys were shut down pretty well (Jake's PPG aside) but Pitt's system and D and the Bottom 6 showed up big time to make a game of it. If this kind of thing can keep happening, I'll feel real good about the team's chances. On 1/31/2020 at 2:46 PM, radoran said: Further, once they do get into the playoffs, they're going to need more than the 4 points each in the past 12 playoff games that Giroux and Voracek have managed and they're going to need Couturier to be the guy that had nine points in five games the last time he was in the playoffs. And, again, they can do it, but they need to actually do it. More than likely, you're right, but if they give up 4+ goals a game, it won't really matter what Giroux and Jake do. The other half of the argument is that the last two playoff appearances, the bottom 6 (actually the bottom 9 really) were pretty bad which made the Flyers essentially a one line team and thus a relatively easy to shut down. I have to admit that the 2018 series against the Penguins made little to zero sense. It was yet another situation where they simply didn't have a healthy NHL goalie and that didn't help anything, but for the most part, that series had no rhyme or reason to it. The lop sidedness of the wins, regardless of which team was winning was just odd. It was an odd series on the whole. If we look back to 2016 and the caps however, I'll point out that the Flyers were 2-2 in that series when they held the caps to 2 goals or under. G and Jake were essentially shut down, but also at that time there really wasn't anyone else to score. At least in 2010, you had an emerging G, Briere, Richards, Carter, Hartnell, JVR and Gagne. But God love them (or hate them) some of what really made the difference that year was the likes of Ville Leino , Lappy and Dan Carcillo showing up. That team also had a mostly healthy Timmo, Coburn and what was that other guy's name? Oh yeah, Pronger... they almost helped make up for the backup and the minor leaguer in net. If you go back two years earlier to 2008, they had even fewer "stars" and it showed because they didn't score much at all, but what they did was not give up much at all in the series they won. On 1/31/2020 at 2:46 PM, radoran said: Finally, when looking ahead, the Flyers have nine forwards signed and the possibility of Frost and Ratcliffe coming up, and even Patrick coming back. That alone gives them more depth than they have now without the need to make a deal. I like the idea of Frost coming up for the playoffs and I hope they get him some more NHL time before then. I think he could end up being a nice wild card in the third line that teams might not know how to deal with. Ratcliffe's still got a ways to go. I don't know what to make about Patty. Fletch keeps saying he expects to see him this year... but nothing I'm seeing or hearing suggests that's even close to happening. I wish it were, but at this point in the season, what kind of player are they going to get? On 1/31/2020 at 2:46 PM, radoran said: As always, if a good deal is there, then go make it. I don't want them to take a bad deal. Throughout this thread I think my posts (even the Toffoli or Getzlaf suggestions which didn't see it happening unless JVR was involved which I admitted didn't make sense for the Kings or Ducks) were metered. I'm not gung ho for anything in exchange for Ghost. Though Johnsson could make me think twice and Kappanen would probably get me to pull the trigger. There's no way to make it work cap wise because the Leafs aren't taking JVR back to be sure, but I'd jump at the chance to make Nylander work as well. That would get Giroux back onto wing and could make Hazy the full time 3C... though admittedly, it would be all but giving up on Patrick. Maybe Fletcher has enough information to do that. Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, King Knut said: Some of them play up the ignorant angle on stuff seemingly to appeal to the ire of their readers. I really try to actively avoid "Flyer Twitter" - like the rest of the platform it's overly reactionary and hyper polarized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 15 hours ago, radoran said: I really try to actively avoid "Flyer Twitter I follow a couple of dudes like Alexander Appleyard and Charlie O'Connor so I see all kinds of stupid stuff pertaining to the Flyers on twitter. For example just the other day a guy was saying that Phil Myers was caught up in a numbers game here, and should be targeted by Dubas because Myers could be "had" for "not much" - paraphrasing. As if the bunch a rubes running the team don't know what they have with the kid. Flyers twitter is stupid. You are far too kind with your description. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Flyers twitter is stupid. You are far too kind with your description. I only get some of it as I do have Meltzer in my follows. They spend a lot of time telling each other how stupid Flyers Twitter is, too. #ouroboros 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I follow a couple of dudes like Alexander Appleyard and Charlie O'Connor so I see all kinds of stupid stuff pertaining to the Flyers on twitter. For example just the other day a guy was saying that Phil Myers was caught up in a numbers game here, and should be targeted by Dubas because Myers could be "had" for "not much" - paraphrasing. As if the bunch a rubes running the team don't know what they have with the kid. Flyers twitter is stupid. You are far too kind with your description. I follow a lot of it because i find it pretty entertaining and it makes me feel sane....there are some very very scary people out there amongst us and some if not most of them we don't even know they are there...but i get it some folks believe everything they hear and read but that is just like the new today....you have to be able to wade through the bullsh*t!!!! Many can't do it...but man if you're just sitting on the pot it is a great way to pass the time....if only it you were able to wipe with most of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: you have to be able to wade through the bullsh*t!!!! No, you really don't. When you wade through the bullsh*t, you're guaranteed to get covered in ****... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, radoran said: No, you really don't. When you wade through the bullsh*t, you're guaranteed to get covered in ****... I enjoy the adventure...besides i have plenty of wet wipes handy... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: I enjoy the adventure...besides i have plenty of wet wipes handy... Did you get them from Giroux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, CoachX said: Did you get them from Giroux? Can not divulge this info....sorry. Inside information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 11:59 AM, radoran said: Word of advice: ignore Twitter I've never been so happy. Had it pretty much since its inception until about 6 months ago when I was permanently banned. Ticked me off at first--pretty much because of WHAT got me banned while the rest of the cesspool continues---but it's been great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 20 hours ago, radoran said: I really try to actively avoid "Flyer Twitter" - like the rest of the platform it's overly reactionary and hyper polarized. I follow Jsaquella and agree with most of his views. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I follow a couple of dudes like Alexander Appleyard and Charlie O'Connor so I see all kinds of stupid stuff pertaining to the Flyers on twitter. For example just the other day a guy was saying that Phil Myers was caught up in a numbers game here, and should be targeted by Dubas because Myers could be "had" for "not much" - paraphrasing. As if the bunch a rubes running the team don't know what they have with the kid. Flyers twitter is stupid. You are far too kind with your description. I don't disagree, but that particular example sounds like Toronto Twitter being stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just now, King Knut said: I don't disagree, but that particular example sounds like Toronto Twitter being stupid. LOL He showed up in an Appleyard thread, there were other flyers heads poking at him, but I agree he was wearing the wrong colors in the bad part of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I follow Jsaquella and agree with most of his views. I miss him on the board, actually. He never made the jump here (or it was brief if he did). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I follow Jsaquella and agree with most of his views. I liked Jsaq as a poster backinnaday and was following him for a while. Then I had the apparent temerity to question an assertion on the assumption that posing something publicly was meant to create an opportunity for engagement and discussion. It was an experience that convinced me I really didn't need "Flyer Twitter." I think I'm still following Gazoo at this point, but I haven't seen a lot from the li'l green guy recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Trade deadline is approaching. Tick tock. It's never too late: Think what a player like Nylander would do for the female fan base in Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said: Trade deadline is approaching. Tick tock. It's never too late: Think what a player like Nylander would do for the female fan base in Philly. He looks like he should be in some boy band.....LOL....good lord! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 hours ago, fan4ever said: He looks like he should be in some boy band.....LOL....good lord! I would love to have him. we'll ugly him up fast enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, King Knut said: I would love to have him. we'll ugly him up fast enough. Not on todays Flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 hours ago, fan4ever said: He looks like he should be in some boy band.....LOL....good lord! I thought I saw him on the Disney Channel 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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