Game 27: Flyers at Rangers; 3/15/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[RonJeremy]

Sell in the off-season. Unload the failed core, don’t give up any prospects, just get rid of the perennial veteran failures .  Sell Mortimer ,sell !!!

[Samifan]

Of course they can’t convert on two breakaways in the final 5 minutes.

 

#IHATEJAKE 

 

 

[Samifan]

6 minutes ago, Samifan said:

Of course they can’t convert on two breakaways in the final 5 minutes.

 

#IHATEJAKE 

 

 

I still hate him!!!

[RonJeremy]

2 minutes ago, Samifan said:

I still hate him!!!

OK, for a change , our failed core scored key goals in an important game. Give it some time and they will go into their perennial  10-15 game scoreless streak. One big problem is that Jake,G and JVR are and always have been very streaky scorers. Either way our defense is a horror show.

[Howie58]

58 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Sell in the off-season. Unload the failed core, don’t give up any prospects, just get rid of the perennial veteran failures .  Sell Mortimer ,sell !!!

"Trading Places!  Wonderful!!!

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I won't argue over two points. But the effort we needed to get them is disturbing.  You'd reckon that going up 2-0 against a sub -.500 squad, it would be easy to put the game away.  Not a chance with this gang.  

 

I don't think Hart was awful.  But we continue the bang-bang giveaways/leaks.  Sad.

 

 

[mojo1917]

15 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

 If it was for one or two years and for less $$ than he’s making now, then maybe, but only if we unload two other big contracts somehow.

Aren't his and Couturier's up at the same time?

Fletcher could flip/flop the aavs for the players, G takes a pay cut Couturier gets a raise ?

I know 14 is due for a big payday, but his age puts him at a place where the current salary structure of long term to try to offset the cap number won't be palatable. I'd want to keep him around, Giroux too.

In modern times guys don't retire where they played. It's kind of ****** but that's reality. 

It will be weird to see 28 traded at the deadline for futures or some ****.

 

[OccamsRazor]

I didn't watch the whole game last night i watched the condensed version this morning and i came away thinking good lord Ghost and Prosser were down right terrible...especially Ghost.

 

 

I mean sure it would have been nice to see the stud Hart of old make that save but i digress.

 

Prosser is well kind of what you would expect from a 9th defenseman.

 

 

Was this AV's ploy to distract us from how bad Sanheim and Myers truly are.

 

 

Man Sanheim and Myers are both 24 years old WTF are we going to see some light come on for these two in displaying some sibilance of chemistry of know how to defend better together, when to know for one of the two to hang back incase one of them gets caught pinching??

 

I know it isn't all the defensemen's fault the forward suck at helping and to me the most discouraging part is damn Hart just looks like this year's Carson Wentz like in one year he totally forgot how to play his position like the stud he was.

 

Very concerned. Especially against a very underwhelming Rangers squad...

 

 

[RonJeremy]

50 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Aren't his and Couturier's up at the same time?

Fletcher could flip/flop the aavs for the players, G takes a pay cut Couturier gets a raise ?

I know 14 is due for a big payday, but his age puts him at a place where the current salary structure of long term to try to offset the cap number won't be palatable. I'd want to keep him around, Giroux too.

In modern times guys don't retire where they played. It's kind of ****** but that's reality. 

It will be weird to see 28 traded at the deadline for futures or some ****.

 

The other option is to deal Coots if the price is right, he would get us the biggest return of anyone on this team. If we are gonna suck for a few more years then we may as well suck totally.

[RonJeremy]

56 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Aren't his and Couturier's up at the same time?

Fletcher could flip/flop the aavs for the players, G takes a pay cut Couturier gets a raise ?

I know 14 is due for a big payday, but his age puts him at a place where the current salary structure of long term to try to offset the cap number won't be palatable. I'd want to keep him around, Giroux too.

In modern times guys don't retire where they played. It's kind of ****** but that's reality. 

It will be weird to see 28 traded at the deadline for futures or some ****.

 

Maybe the only way that G drops the no trade clause is if he fully realizes the Flyers are not winning a Cup any time soon and if we can somehow get a legit top 3 contender to trade for him. Maybe he really wants to win a Cup and would do it.

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The other option is to deal Coots if the price is right, he would get us the biggest return of anyone on this team. If we are gonna suck for a few more years then we may as well suck totally.

 

No i am not looking to deal Coots. There are plenty of options on this team to move.

[elmatus]

5 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The other option is to deal Coots if the price is right, he would get us the biggest return of anyone on this team. If we are gonna suck for a few more years then we may as well suck totally.

 

I strongly doubt Fletch would go down this road, but you're absolutely right that Couts would net a significant return. 

 

The question definitely should be asked whether this team is in need of a proper rebuild. If the answer is yes, then two things need to happen:

 

1) Giroux needs to be traded for the best return we can get (also Jake, though the return would be less for sure)

2) We all collectively have to brace for a number of very bad seasons

 

On point one, Giroux may get disparaged here, but he's one of the most consistent point producers in the league over the last decade. He would absolutely fetch a solid return from a contender who is in win now mode. In fact, adding a guy of his caliber in a role like that could very well be a huge boon to whatever team would get him. If this happens, and he goes to a team that is right now in a contender position, we should be ready to cry when we see him in the finals, cause that could absolutely happen.

 

On point two, the team right now has been a bubble team for at least 5-6 years. They're a bubble team again this year, despite what some might suggest is them "not living up to whatever expectations". BUT, losing the core vets who have been our top point producers over this 5-6 span is almost definitely going to mean a hit to our ability to win games. Put another way: if you think they're hard to watch now, wait till you watch them without the only guy on staff who routinely hits 80+ pts per season, and the one of only a few who happen to get another 60+ per.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. In fact, I'm pretty much getting to a place where I feel like a rebuild is exactly what we do need. I'm just saying we need to understand what that would mean if it were to happen. We're not used to teams who are truly bottom dwellers. We're used to bubble teams. It would be like watching Buffalo or Detroit 50-82 games in a year. It may be exactly what we need, but we should be ready mentally for what that exactly means in terms of the skill we see on the ice.

[RonJeremy]

1 minute ago, elmatus said:

 

I strongly doubt Fletch would go down this road, but you're absolutely right that Couts would net a significant return. 

 

The question definitely should be asked whether this team is in need of a proper rebuild. If the answer is yes, then two things need to happen:

 

1) Giroux needs to be traded for the best return we can get (also Jake, though the return would be less for sure)

2) We all collectively have to brace for a number of very bad seasons

 

On point one, Giroux may get disparaged here, but he's one of the most consistent point producers in the league over the last decade. He would absolutely fetch a solid return from a contender who is in win now mode. In fact, adding a guy of his caliber in a role like that could very well be a huge boon to whatever team would get him. If this happens, and he goes to a team that is right now in a contender position, we should be ready to cry when we see him in the finals, cause that could absolutely happen.

 

On point two, the team right now has been a bubble team for at least 5-6 years. They're a bubble team again this year, despite what some might suggest is them "not living up to whatever expectations". BUT, losing the core vets who have been our top point producers over this 5-6 span is almost definitely going to mean a hit to our ability to win games. Put another way: if you think they're hard to watch now, wait till you watch them without the only guy on staff who routinely hits 80+ pts per season, and the one of only a few who happen to get another 60+ per.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. In fact, I'm pretty much getting to a place where I feel like a rebuild is exactly what we do need. I'm just saying we need to understand what that would mean if it were to happen. We're not used to teams who are truly bottom dwellers. We're used to bubble teams. It would be like watching Buffalo or Detroit 50-82 games in a year. It may be exactly what we need, but we should be ready mentally for what that exactly means in terms of the skill we see on the ice.

The window is closing, JVR is at peak value  right now should be traded and if we let G, Jake and Hayes get a couple of years older while chasing a pipe dream of a Cup, then we will be stuck  with them totally and blew a chance to do a rebuild that is gonna happen anyway .

[elmatus]

Just now, RonJeremy said:

The window is closing, JVR is at peak value  right now should be traded and if we let G, Jake and Hayes get a couple of years older while chasing a pipe dream of a Cup, then we will be stuck  with them totally and blew a chance to do a rebuild that is gonna happen anyway .

 

I'm with you in that I think a rebuild is on the horizon. The question is more whether the management can see this. If they can, they should definitely trade Giroux this off season (if possible). He is worth a good amount now to a contender, but he won't be in another couple years. Move him while the return is still good.

 

Same with Voracek, though they'd get less for him. JVR may have increased his stock this year a bit, but I really don't think many GMs are looking at him with that much recency bias. I'm sure he could be moved, but it wouldn't be for any huge amount. It would possibly be similar to moving Voracek with the year he's having.

 

Still, move all three and you should get some amount of rebuild stuff back. Move Ghost too (the price here would be abysmal, but probably some picks or something). And move Patrick. Why sit on the kid in the feint hopes that he'll finally show something he really never has? He may fetch something of a return still based on some sort of untapped potential, so take it and run.

 

To my previous point though, losing all those guys (and most especially Giroux) will mean this team is going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for some amount of years. If they go down this route, we the fanbase need to recognize we're in for some even worse hockey for a good bit of time.

[OccamsRazor]

 

@ruxpin

 

To whomever else wants to chime in...

 

Very strange to wake to JVR sitting 3rd in the NHL in points (29 in 26 games) and 6th in goals (13) for LWs.

 

So i really have to ask since the discussion is rebuild or not and if so who to offer up.

 

Wouldn't be more beneficial to trade JVR if possible since his trade value will never truly be higher for a very nice return instead of just letting Seattle pluck him for nothing??

 

I'm just asking here as to which would suit the Flyers more???

 

And yes i know it would hurt the Flyers now to move their leading goal scorer.

 

But it seems that would be prefer to move him for assets than tp just lose him for nothing.

 

I guess if you ain't going to trade for defenseive help this year then damn might as well just move him too.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The window is closing, JVR is at peak value  right now should be traded and if we let G, Jake and Hayes get a couple of years older while chasing a pipe dream of a Cup, then we will be stuck  with them totally and blew a chance to do a rebuild that is gonna happen anyway .

 

I was just typing about maybe trading JVR at the deadline instead of letting Seattle pluck him for nothing.

 

I think Giroux stays and he and Coots swap cap hits for their next contracts Giroux (4.3 mill per) maybe inking a 3 year deal and Coots (7.5 mill per) a 5 year deal.

 

And maybe sometime next year if things aren't looking so well Jake would only have two years left on his deal and maybe you can move him now even if you have to maybe pick up about 3 mill of his salary to do so looks like a not so bad option....it frees up 5.2 mill per year to use elsewhere.

[Cheesesteak]

Imagine if this years' JVR, and Jake and Giroux all played like last night consistantly...this team would've actually been fun to watch 

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Man Sanheim and Myers are both 24 years old WTF are we going to see some light come on for these two in displaying some sibilance of chemistry of know how to defend better together, when to know for one of the two to hang back incase one of them gets caught pinching??

 

I have thought Myers hasn't looked "good" since he broke his ribs.

I've only ever had "strained ribs" and that hurt a lot, all the time, when I would swing (baseball), the pain somehow managed to get worse; until they healed.  I imagine broken ribs to be like that, but more everything bad.

So, I'm wondering if he's having some "body trust" issues.

It would make sense, since what I've been reading about him is the staff wants him to play "bigger", be first on pucks and take hits to make plays. Guys with hurt ribs might not commit to those endeavors fully until they're pain free. If he is pain free he might be a little leary of opening his core to contact.

Just a theory. 

 

I'll be interested to see how the d and forwards react to what they saw last night. The Rangers won some battles and jailbreaked their zone at full speed looking for that stretch pass.  I know in the case of the Gauthier goal, Ghost guessed wrong initially and then got turned inside out. I hope people can make an adjustment to have a forward chip that guy or stay with him in addition to winning more battles in the OZ.

This team has reacted poorly to teams that blitz them with speed, they need to be stronger on the puck and or/ keep that f3 higher.

Too many negative things happening all at once in that second period. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by mojo1917

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

deal Coots

 

Fukcen Reported man, for realz this time. Delete your account, etc., etc., 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

@ruxpin

 

To whomever else wants to chime in...

 

Very strange to wake to JVR sitting 3rd in the NHL in points (29 in 26 games) and 6th in goals (13) for LWs.

 

So i really have to ask since the discussion is rebuild or not and if so who to offer up.

 

Wouldn't be more beneficial to trade JVR if possible since his trade value will never truly be higher for a very nice return instead of just letting Seattle pluck him for nothing??

 

I'm just asking here as to which would suit the Flyers more???

 

And yes i know it would hurt the Flyers now to move their leading goal scorer.

 

But it seems that would be prefer to move him for assets than tp just lose him for nothing.

 

I guess if you ain't going to trade for defenseive help this year then damn might as well just move him too.

I'd argue to move him for the defensive help.   We legitimately are not having trouble scoring.   We're sixth in the league in GF/G.   Our problem is that we're also 5th worst in GA/G.    

 

So, JVR could be perceived by other teams as a real plus piece for their offense.   We'd need matching salary coming back, obviously, because I can't think of any contender that has that kind of cap room.   Maybe he goes to a non-contender thinking he's a nice piece to get them where they want to be on offense.   Say, Buffalo.  Olofsson and Montour would come close to matching cap.   Montour is an RFA and wouldn't need to be protected.  Oloffson has one more year.   The rest of this season could be a "show me."   If he's grabbed by Seattle, we've saved our incumbents and $3M in cap should we want to extend Montour.

The Sabres could legitimately think JVR would look good next to Eichel.   They'd be mistaken, but they could think that.

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Fukcen Reported man, for realz this time. Delete your account, etc., etc., 

Haha , report me , Im already on double secret probation. If a rebuild is really on the horizon then it makes sense to shop Coots , see what kind of offers we get, because he can get us a much bigger return than anyone else we have. Kinda like when we traded Recchi for Desjardins , Leclair and Dionne. I love Coots but , no point in keeping him if we are rebuilding. Of course ,we only do the deal if it makes sense and we get exactly what we want. If the deal is not totally in the Flyers favor, then don’t do it.

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I love Coots but , no point in keeping him if we are rebuilding.

 

So which vets are going to show these newly acquired kids the way then???

 

Surely you aren't talking about icing a team full of 21-24 years olds right???

 

I mean name a team that started like that and they when the kids where ready the just achieved said goal without some kid of vet guidance??

 

Someone needs to show them along the way on how to conduct themselves and i sure as hell don't want it to be JVR or Jake and Giroux skills have eroded to them point he may not be able to show them. 

 

Coots just turned 28 this past December....so to me he is worth keeping of all the "older" forwards in fact he is my next Captain to be.

 

So he is the last guy i am wanting to move right now he embodies everything i want the kids to learn to play like.

 

My 2 cents on that so there are as i said a couple more options i would pursue to move out than he.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by OccamsRazor
bourbon isn't working

[Howie58]

26 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Haha , report me , Im already on double secret probation. If a rebuild is really on the horizon then it makes sense to shop Coots , see what kind of offers we get, because he can get us a much bigger return than anyone else we have. Kinda like when we traded Recchi for Desjardins , Leclair and Dionne. I love Coots but , no point in keeping him if we are rebuilding. Of course ,we only do the deal if it makes sense and we get exactly what we want. If the deal is not totally in the Flyers favor, then don’t do it.

This would be tough for the fans, but as others have noted, he will be getting a huge salary boost post-'22.  Giroux's  current contract ends as well, and I am not sure the franchise will want to continue a long-term contract signing at current salary.  Current contenders might want a boost.   Voracek is the big, long albatross.  But carrying him would mean less if we have freedom elsewhere.  

 

I wouldn't mind a "process," if we started drafting some exciting players. We hoped for that after the 2010 blowup.  Hmmmmm.

[albertaflyer]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I didn't watch the whole game last night i watched the condensed version this morning and i came away thinking good lord Ghost and Prosser were down right terrible...especially Ghost.

 

 

I mean sure it would have been nice to see the stud Hart of old make that save but i digress.

 

Prosser is well kind of what you would expect from a 9th defenseman.

 

 

Was this AV's ploy to distract us from how bad Sanheim and Myers truly are.

 

 

Man Sanheim and Myers are both 24 years old WTF are we going to see some light come on for these two in displaying some sibilance of chemistry of know how to defend better together, when to know for one of the two to hang back incase one of them gets caught pinching??

 

I know it isn't all the defensemen's fault the forward suck at helping and to me the most discouraging part is damn Hart just looks like this year's Carson Wentz like in one year he totally forgot how to play his position like the stud he was.

 

Very concerned. Especially against a very underwhelming Rangers squad...

 

 

The give and go goal was more on Lindblom then anybody. He was so afraid to touch the puck because it was offside he let them have an easy out. He touches the puck the plays dead or at least put pressure on the Ranger player there's no way they get out of the zone that easy. Although those two D men have been bad no one is even close to as bad as Ghost defensively. He's a train wreck and doesn't have to the foot speed to correct his mistakes. Then add the fact that he's as soft as a pillow in front of the net it's not good.

[RonJeremy]

Just now, Howie58 said:

This would be tough for the fans, but as others have noted, he will be getting a huge salary boost post-'22.  Giroux's  current contract ends as well, and I am not sure the franchise will want to continue a long-term contract signing at current salary.  Current contenders might want a boost.   Voracek is the big, long albatross.  But carrying him would mean less if we have freedom elsewhere.  

 

I wouldn't mind a "process," if we started drafting some exciting players. We hoped for that after the 2010 blowup.  Hmmmmm.

On a good note , it took forever ,but we finally did draft some offensively skilled ,shoot first players that seem more exciting than the players we have now. Wisdom, Brink, Foerester and Desoyners all seem to be highly skilled. We also have two big guys that can shoot Allison and Ratcliffe. If Coots gets trade it has to be for blue chip  young players.