Polaris922 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2015/05/29/Adam-Bittner-The-Flyers-moral-indignation-toward-Penguins-is-pitiful/stories/201505290304?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1432945347Adam Bittner: The Flyers’ moral indignation toward Penguins is pitifulThe Philadelphia Flyers, unable since 1975 to create a Stanley Cup championship team, have in the meantime decided to invent a moral high ground to justify their failures.Senior vice president Bob Clarke, a playing member of the last Broad Street championship team, told the Inquirer’s Sam Carchidi in a ’75 retrospective Tuesday:“We’ve been to the Finals so many times and played so good and so hard and didn’t quite get it done. It [angers me] that teams try to lose continually to come up with the Crosbys . . . and Malkins.‘‘The Flyers have never intentionally tried to lose. That would put a foul taste in my mouth. Who wants to be a part of any organization like that? I wouldn’t want to be.”The implication there, of course, is that the Penguins’ Cup win in 2009 is cheapened by the fact that stars Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were acquired through top draft choices made possible by years of lousy hockey preceding them, all while the Flyers were nobly serving as the NHL’s Charlie Brown, never quite kicking that football but always trying so hard.This is wildly disingenuous in a couple of ways.The first is that Clarke is a hypocrite. His holier-than-thou attitude didn’t preclude the Flyers from selecting James van Riemsdyk second overall in 2007 after finishing with by far the lowest point total in the NHL. And the Flyers hold the seventh overall pick in next month’s draft, one they have yet to forfeit as a triumph of superior moral fiber. So really, they use the top of the draft the same as the Penguins did, and it’s only because van Riemsdyk was mostly a bust that the Flyers aren’t similarly anchored by a highly touted superstar.But even if you grant Clarke that the Flyers have mostly avoided the top of the draft by fielding solid teams over the years, citing that as some type of ethical victory is a red herring. The goal of the game is to win, and trying to define success in professional sports any other way is just a lame attempt to deflect attention from a failed strategy after the fact.The Penguins correctly embraced a years-long process of stripping down their expensive, aging roster in the early aughts to prepare through the draft for a post-lockout NHL where they’d be on a more level playing field economically with the big markets — not the least of which is Philadelphia, which had no compunction about exploiting that unfair advantage for decades before 2004.In the end, that long-term strategy paid off with a championship and nine consecutive postseason berths. If the Flyers want to move the goal posts and narrow true success to winning without top draft picks, then they should go out and actualize it with a Cup after they’ve recused themselves from making that seventh overall selection next month.But they won’t. They’re going to use that pick to their advantage, either by selecting a young stud or using its value in a trade. And when they do, not only will they be losers, but sanctimonious losers who project their insecurities on the biggest rival's success.Who wants to be part (or fan) of any organization like that? I wouldn’t want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I believe that the Flyers went to the Cup Finals 8 or 9 times winning twice!The Pens went 4 times winning 3! I agree to the point that I don't like the idea of losing on purpose to get a better position in the draft! In fact the Pens would have a coach that would coach and a goalie that would stop the puck the would easily have 3 to 4 more appearances in the finals! No one can cry over spilled milk! I don't see the Pens going to the finals any time soon I don't think that the Pens will make the playoffs next season! Not with the G.M. making trades for misfits and trade draft choices just to make a trade and a goalie who has his head up his...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sounds like a certain Pens beat writer is quite bitter and has nothing else better to write about. Talk about typical homerism journalism that is so common place in todays world. Nothing like a good ol' smear article with no substance to rile up the fans on both sides. This topic has been beaten to death ad nauseaum on here. Time to move on folks. Take his ridiculous article with a grain of salt and just walk away. Had a similiar article been written by a Flyers beat writer, then Pens fans will have taken umbrage. In a "what have you done for me now" society, the Pens haven't exactly lived up to their billing. Depending on how the current Stanley Cup Finals go..the tandem of Toews /Kane could have more cup wins than Crosby / Malkin. Let that sink in for a moment. The Flyers certainly have their faults, but to continually dredge up the "tanking" of the Pens is old history now. In the end I predict this thread to get quite lengthy with each side trying to prove the other wrong and eventually emotions will get the better of some of us. Ahhh and so goes the life of the Pens / Flyers rivalry......... (getting off my soapbox and now bringing out a box of popcorn for the coming entertainment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Wow and I thought that Philly writers had cornered the market on senseless drivel!! You know the offseason is here when you read this kind of claptrap. Call the wahhhhhhhhmbulance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ***Substitute the word waitress for Penguins**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The Flyers and Pens are rivals....who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sounds like a certain Pens beat writer is quite bitter and has nothing else better to write about. Talk about typical homerism journalism that is so common place in todays world. Nothing like a good ol' smear article with no substance to rile up the fans on both sides. This topic has been beaten to death ad nauseaum on here. Time to move on folks. Take his ridiculous article with a grain of salt and just walk away. Had a similiar article been written by a Flyers beat writer, then Pens fans will have taken umbrage. In a "what have you done for me now" society, the Pens haven't exactly lived up to their billing. Depending on how the current Stanley Cup Finals go..the tandem of Toews /Kane could have more cup wins than Crosby / Malkin. Let that sink in for a moment. The Flyers certainly have their faults, but to coninually dredge up the "tanking" of the Pens is old history now. In the end I predict this thread to get quite lengthy with each side trying to prove the other wrong and eventually emotions will get the better of some of us. Ahhh and so goes the life of the Pens / Flyers rivalry......... (getting off my soapbox and now bringing out a box of popcorn for the coming entertainment) LOL! that is a good one! Outta curiosity what are thephilly newspaper? Iknow about the inquiirer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm hoping this is the last year of Jim Rutherford! I know its the second year of a two year deal, I hope there isn't a other contract! The pens need a Scotty Bowman type coach and G.M. I don't think Mario would go for that type of management! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 LOL! that is a good one! Outta curiosity what are thephilly newspaper? Iknow about the inquiirer! the newspapers are "the Inquirier" and "the Daily News". However everyon is online nowadays anyway. Here is the link to Silly Sports.com (private joke for some of us on here). Philly Sports --> http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2015/05/29/Adam-Bittner-The-Flyers-moral-indignation-toward-Penguins-is-pitiful/stories/201505290304?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1432945347Adam Bittner: The Flyers’ moral indignation toward Penguins is pitifulThe Philadelphia Flyers, unable since 1975 to create a Stanley Cup championship team, have in the meantime decided to invent a moral high ground to justify their failures.Senior vice president Bob Clarke, a playing member of the last Broad Street championship team, told the Inquirer’s Sam Carchidi in a ’75 retrospective Tuesday:“We’ve been to the Finals so many times and played so good and so hard and didn’t quite get it done. It [angers me] that teams try to lose continually to come up with the Crosbys . . . and Malkins.‘‘The Flyers have never intentionally tried to lose. That would put a foul taste in my mouth. Who wants to be a part of any organization like that? I wouldn’t want to be.”The implication there, of course, is that the Penguins’ Cup win in 2009 is cheapened by the fact that stars Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were acquired through top draft choices made possible by years of lousy hockey preceding them, all while the Flyers were nobly serving as the NHL’s Charlie Brown, never quite kicking that football but always trying so hard.This is wildly disingenuous in a couple of ways.The first is that Clarke is a hypocrite. His holier-than-thou attitude didn’t preclude the Flyers from selecting James van Riemsdyk second overall in 2007 after finishing with by far the lowest point total in the NHL. And the Flyers hold the seventh overall pick in next month’s draft, one they have yet to forfeit as a triumph of superior moral fiber. So really, they use the top of the draft the same as the Penguins did, and it’s only because van Riemsdyk was mostly a bust that the Flyers aren’t similarly anchored by a highly touted superstar.But even if you grant Clarke that the Flyers have mostly avoided the top of the draft by fielding solid teams over the years, citing that as some type of ethical victory is a red herring. The goal of the game is to win, and trying to define success in professional sports any other way is just a lame attempt to deflect attention from a failed strategy after the fact.The Penguins correctly embraced a years-long process of stripping down their expensive, aging roster in the early aughts to prepare through the draft for a post-lockout NHL where they’d be on a more level playing field economically with the big markets — not the least of which is Philadelphia, which had no compunction about exploiting that unfair advantage for decades before 2004.In the end, that long-term strategy paid off with a championship and nine consecutive postseason berths. If the Flyers want to move the goal posts and narrow true success to winning without top draft picks, then they should go out and actualize it with a Cup after they’ve recused themselves from making that seventh overall selection next month.But they won’t. They’re going to use that pick to their advantage, either by selecting a young stud or using its value in a trade. And when they do, not only will they be losers, but sanctimonious losers who project their insecurities on the biggest rival's success.Who wants to be part (or fan) of any organization like that? I wouldn’t want to be. I have no problem with the ultimate point of "shut up, Clarke!" I thought it was dumb in general when I originally read his quote, and especially dumb specifically referencing the Pens. But the above bold is kind of nonsense. It's not like the Flyers aren't going to use (or attempt to) use draft picks. Clarke is just claiming the Flyers aren't going out of their way to lose to make those draft picks better to grab a Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, etc. Much to the consternation of many Flyers' fans, by the way. I like that the writer doesn't stick to the typical "but we didn't do that!" routine. It doesn't matter if they did or didn't, but for the record, I don't think they did. I also like the point he makes about the Flyers being one of the handful of teams who didn't blink about taking advantage of the previous economic inequalities. Good point. But the "they're going to use their draft picks!" really goes off the point a bit and enters the realm of silliness. A team can simply be bad without trying (although Holmgren was so bad you wonder how one can be so bad without trying) and the rules are that bad teams draft first. I think that's the point the writer was trying to make (a good point) but goes at it from such an angle that the bolded reads like nonsense. Overall, not a bad article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The Pens wish they were the Flyers' "biggest rivals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The Flyers and Pens are rivals....who knew?I didn't know that I thought that they were kissing cousins! Was Lucy and Charlie Brown related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ruxpin Guy had a good point. Went about making it in an almost equally whiny way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ruxpinGuy had a good point. Went about making it in an almost equally whiny way.You said that way more succinctly than I did. Kudos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 I found it funny that Clarke embarrassed himself whining then a beat writer gets press whining about his whining... But yes he did have some good points. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 In a "what have you done for me now" society, the Pens haven't exactly lived up to their billing. Depending on how the current Stanley Cup Finals go..the tandem of Toews /Kane could have more cup wins than Crosby / Malkin. Let that sink in for a moment.You're missing the most valuable difference between the Hawks and the Pens. Supporting cast. The Hawks' big contracts haven't kicked in yet. Guys like Hossa, Sharp, Versteeg, Saad and Hjalmarsson are supporting cast. When the Pens won in '09 Dupuis and Satan were on the 4th line! Now the Pens mismanagement has AHL players on the second line routinely. Toews scored one goal in twenty playoff games during a run and still won a Cup that year. Stamkos has one goal until facing the Rags this year. Make Ben Lovejoy the Hawks' #2 defenseman this playoffs and tell me they'd still be going to the Cup. The Pens are struggling to succeed past a couple rounds lately, sure... But it's hardly on Crosby and Malkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You're missing the most valuable difference between the Hawks and the Pens. Supporting cast. The Hawks' big contracts haven't kicked in yet. Guys like Hossa, Sharp, Versteeg, Saad and Hjalmarsson are supporting cast. When the Pens won in '09 Dupuis and Satan were on the 4th line! Now the Pens mismanagement has AHL players on the second line routinely.Toews scored one goal in twenty playoff games during a run and still won a Cup that year. Stamkos has one goal until facing the Rags this year. Make Ben Lovejoy the Hawks' #2 defenseman this playoffs and tell me they'd still be going to the Cup.The Pens are struggling to succeed past a couple rounds lately, sure... But it's hardly on Crosby and Malkin. I never said it was Crosby / Malkin's fault. Totally agree you need to have the right supporting cast. I was merely stating what is an undisputed fact. If the Hawks win the SCF this year, then the combination of Towes/Kane witll have 3 Cup wins as compared to just 1 win for Malkin / Crosby. The Hawks will be gutted like a fish out of water when the contracts kick in, unless the younger players they have step right in and perform. Non knowledgable hockey fans will just see the window dressing of Toews/Kane will have more cup wins than Crosby / Malkin. You can't argue the point that this is a"show me what have you done lately" society, because it is. The Pens have failed for a myriad of reasons and not all of it is Crosby / Malkins fault. However, they are are the face of the Pens franchise and either rightly or wrongly, fans in general will place alot of the blame for the Pens failures on their shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You're missing the most valuable difference between the Hawks and the Pens. Supporting cast. The Hawks' big contracts haven't kicked in yet. Guys like Hossa, Sharp, Versteeg, Saad and Hjalmarsson are supporting cast. When the Pens won in '09 Dupuis and Satan were on the 4th line! Now the Pens mismanagement has AHL players on the second line routinely.Toews scored one goal in twenty playoff games during a run and still won a Cup that year. Stamkos has one goal until facing the Rags this year. Make Ben Lovejoy the Hawks' #2 defenseman this playoffs and tell me they'd still be going to the Cup.The Pens are struggling to succeed past a couple rounds lately, sure... But it's hardly on Crosby and Malkin. I agree the blame goes to Pens management for not supplying Crosby and Malkin with a good supporting cast. But those two could also learn a thing or two about how to handle adversity...they may be the easiest superstars to get off their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 @pilldoc@flyercanuckI agree they will shoulder the blame. but their overall stats are no different than other "superstar" players with streaks up and down. Guess we'll see where they sit at careers endings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 But yes he did have some good points. Absolutely. I just thought the article derailed here and there with some weird reasoning. Overall, his main point is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 However, they are are the face of the Pens franchise and either rightly or wrongly, fans in general will place alot of the blame for the Pens failures on their shoulders. THIS ↑↑↑↑↑ Right or wrong the best players on the Team usually shoulder the ire of fans. Come over to the Flyers section and look at 1/2 of the moronic "trade G - he is a terrible Captain!" comments during the season. As an outsider I think Polaris hit it on the head - it really is about developing a strong supporting cast. As a Flyers fan I thank Shero and hope Rutherford "The Idiot" is the GM over in Pennsyltucky until his timely death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 As a Flyers fan I thank Shero and hope Rutherford "The Idiot" is the GM over in Pennsyltucky until his timely death. That's not nice! Now I regret being happy for you guys Holmgren is no longer GM. And I'm even tempted to add "you still have Snider and Clarke" as a signature just to avenge this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Clarke needs to stfu. that article is bitchy and whiny , I can't believe I wasted my time on it. my feelings about this echo @ruxpin 's . Chicago's big 3 are better than Pittsburgh's big 3 when it comes to winning; Peyton Manning was great but would you take him over Tom Brady who has all the rings and married a super model ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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