Giroux Trade Talk

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Who's the last one that did (who had a say in the matter)?

 

I have to think about that for a second so you mean guys who freely just signed here?

 

Or how about guys who were traded and reupped on their own?

 

I got nothing off the top of my head but it is early and I'm having my first cup of coffee so I need a minute for my brain to wake up...

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Or how about guys who were traded and reupped on their own?

 

Pronger?

 

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Pronger?

 

 

Really it has been that long no way has to be someone in there...but I have not thought of anyone.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Really it has been that long no way has to be someone in there...but I have not thought of anyone.

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

 

Ok.

 

So all I got is Jagr.

 

The only only since Pronger that I can think of...and Steve Mason?

 

But I can't remember if they trade for Steve or not but now after thinking about it we'll it is worse than I thought...yeah all I got.

 

 

[ruxpin]

48 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think they just add another A till the end of the season and hold out hope since they never gave the C out that it will give them hope he will come back.

 

And I'm afraid if it happens it will be more of the same.

 

It is why once they start to close the door they should all the way and leave it shut.

 

It is time to move on just like with Jake and if they bring him back well that tells me they just want to compete for the 9th seed again.

They could always resign him to a one year and then trade him AGAIN at next year's deadline in an attempt to "fix" what they inevitably screw up this offseason.

[flyercanuck]

42 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Who's the last one that did (who had a say in the matter)?

 

 Hayes? I mean not that he's that good. But he didn't want to come to Philly. 

 

 They made him.

Edited February 20, 2022 by flyercanuck

[pilldoc]

47 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

So all I got is Jagr.

still IMO one of the biggest mistakes by this organization by not keeping him around…. I get the age factor … but still…. Huge opportunity lost…

[radoran]

31 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

still IMO one of the biggest mistakes by this organization by not keeping him around…. I get the age factor … but still…. Huge opportunity lost…

 

It gets worse because he wanted to stay and the organization* wouldn't even talk to him because they wanted to chase Parise and Suter, who had both said they weren't interested.

 

That's a decision worthy of the Flyers Hall of Fame these days...

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yet pretty bad they had two of the best players ever at their positions arguably in Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson and they said they would rather retire than play another game for that franchise.

 

Well Flyers seem to be heading down that path full steam and if it don't change soon we'll maybe no good players will want to come to Philly my how that has changed...

Maybe this is the strategy to get rid of JVR. Only difference,  JVR sux goat balls

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

after thinking about it well it is worse than I thought.

 

[RonJeremy]

6 hours ago, radoran said:

 

It gets worse because he wanted to stay and the organization* wouldn't even talk to him because they wanted to chase Parise and Suter, who had both said they weren't interested.

 

That's a decision worthy of the Flyers Hall of Fame these days...

And just think, as bad as we are now when we kept most of our picks,  we we would have had no first round picks for 4 years if Nashville didn’t match the offer sheet for Shea Weber and we also offered a lot to FLA when we tried to get the #1 pick for Ekblad.  Had those deals gone through we still would have sucked for that 5 year period,  and had even less good players than we do now.Weber Is washed up it would have been an epic failure. 

[elmatus]

I get the frustration for this team for sure. What I don't get is how the team's failures are so much about Giroux. The way folks are talking, one would think being a captain should be enough to give a player superpowers. Sure, he's not the best player in the world, but he is not the reason this team has been mediocre at best since 2010. 

 

Maybe he's not the best captain. I honestly don't know what he's like in the locker room. All I know is the team hasn't had any success in the last decade. That sucks of course, but I also realize this is a team sport with ~20 other players. Giroux can't mind control them or give them super speed or turn into the Hulk because a C was stitched on to his sweater. Is he an able motivator? I don't know. Does he work well as a go-between with coaches? No clue. Is he skilled at playing the refs during a game? Actually that one we can pretty well see he's not.

 

Are there better players in the league? Yeah, of course there are. But as the fourth highest producer in the last decade, the list in front of him is really quite short. Put another way, take Giroux out of the equation, and this team would have gotten no higher than 20-25th in this timeframe. The only sensible argument to make for Giroux being a problem is that without him, there's a reasonable chance we would have bottomed out and had more shots at some other top end talent along the way.

 

As far as his trade value goes, he's going to have his pick of suitors, and for very good reason. Yeah, the return won't be as much as it might have been a season or two ago -- which is when he should have been traded imo -- but it should still be very solid for a guy who can easily fit in wherever he's most needed on any team in the NHL. For a contender looking to win this season, he should absolutely be no.1 on the radar.

Edited February 21, 2022 by elmatus

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, elmatus said:

I get the frustration for this team for sure. What I don't get is how the team's failures are so much about Giroux. The way folks are talking, one would think being a captain should be enough to give a player superpowers. Sure, he's not the best player in the world, but he is not the reason this team has been mediocre at best since 2010. 

 

 

 Actually he is the reason they've been mediocre. Without Giroux they would have been a lot worse.

[CoachX]

15 hours ago, elmatus said:

I get the frustration for this team for sure. What I don't get is how the team's failures are so much about Giroux. The way folks are talking, one would think being a captain should be enough to give a player superpowers. Sure, he's not the best player in the world, but he is not the reason this team has been mediocre at best since 2010. 

 

Maybe he's not the best captain. I honestly don't know what he's like in the locker room. All I know is the team hasn't had any success in the last decade. That sucks of course, but I also realize this is a team sport with ~20 other players. Giroux can't mind control them or give them super speed or turn into the Hulk because a C was stitched on to his sweater. Is he an able motivator? I don't know. Does he work well as a go-between with coaches? No clue. Is he skilled at playing the refs during a game? Actually that one we can pretty well see he's not.

 

Are there better players in the league? Yeah, of course there are. But as the fourth highest producer in the last decade, the list in front of him is really quite short. Put another way, take Giroux out of the equation, and this team would have gotten no higher than 20-25th in this timeframe. The only sensible argument to make for Giroux being a problem is that without him, there's a reasonable chance we would have bottomed out and had more shots at some other top end talent along the way.

 

As far as his trade value goes, he's going to have his pick of suitors, and for very good reason. Yeah, the return won't be as much as it might have been a season or two ago -- which is when he should have been traded imo -- but it should still be very solid for a guy who can easily fit in wherever he's most needed on any team in the NHL. For a contender looking to win this season, he should absolutely be no.1 on the radar.

The problem I have with Giroux is in large part the same problem I have with Laughton. They can be better on the ice. Whatever is, or isn't said, in the locker room is nothing but speculation. I get the guy has good stats over a long period. I also think as a whole, he's the most talented guy in the roster. But when your team is sucking, and you are the "leader", I want to see you bring it every night. And by "bring it", I dont mean just scoring goals. Do something,  ANYTHING, to make a difference. 

 

Maybe you think he's done that. That's cool. But I havent seen it for a long time

[FD19372]

This doesn’t have anything to do with trading Giroux, but apparently the Flyers have interest in Canadiens defenseman Jeff Petry. This is according to TFP.

[FD19372]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

The problem I have with Giroux is in large part the same problem I have with Laughton. They can be better on the ice. Whatever is, or isn't said, in the locker room is nothing but speculation. I get the guy has good stats over a long period. I also think as a whole, he's the most talented guy in the roster. But when your team is sucking, and you are the "leader", I want to see you bring it every night. And by "bring it", I dont mean just scoring goals. Do something,  ANYTHING, to make a difference. 

 

Maybe you think he's done that. That's cool. But I havent seen it for a long time

Giroux, at 34, doesn’t have the ability to take over games as much as the tesm needs him to, nor does he have the skill to overcome what are so many of the Flyers flaws. Too much was thought of these young Flyer players by Flyers management, and Giroux can’t make up for the crater-sized hole in their talent. He would be smart to move on, and the Flyers would be also.

[flyer4ever]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

This doesn’t have anything to do with trading Giroux, but apparently the Flyers have interest in Canadiens defenseman Jeff Petry. This is according to TFP.

SHHHHHH! Don't give Chuck any stupid ideas.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, FD19372 said:

This doesn’t have anything to do with trading Giroux, but apparently the Flyers have interest in Canadiens defenseman Jeff Petry. This is according to TFP.

 

Uh no. 34 and signed for 4 more years at 6.25 mill unless they want Kevin Hayes for him I pass.

 

Now I would do it for David Savard he is the guy I wanted instead of Risto.

 

Savard is 31 and signed for 3 years after this one for 3.5 mill. I think he would be a good partner for Sanheim.

 

Now I know Savard is on IR I don't give a damn but he is a good option for the #4 spot but I pass on Petry.

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Uh no. 34 and signed for 4 more years at 6.25 mill unless they want Kevin Hayes for him I pass.

 

Now I would do it for David Savard he is the guy I wanted instead of Risto.

 

Savard is 31 and signed for 3 years after this one for 3.5 mill. I think he would be a good partner for Sanheim.

 

Now I know Savard is on IR I don't give a damn but he is a good option for the #4 spot but I pass on Petry.

 

This team will never learn ....its like freakin Ground Hog Day for eternity on a continuous loop.....

[radoran]

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Uh no. 34 and signed for 4 more years at 6.25 mill unless they want Kevin Hayes for him I pass.

 

Oh, man... Konecny to Montreal in 5... 4... 3...

 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Too much was thought of these young Flyer players by Flyers management

 

The guys that have been here for four, three, or fewer years are not why they have been treading water for a decade.

 

To your point, though, it's the guys that keep doing the same thing they've always been doing expecting different results over the past ten years just might be the problem...

[flyercanuck]

39 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The guys that have been here for four, three, or fewer years are not why they have been treading water for a decade.

 

To your point, though, it's the guys that keep doing the same thing they've always been doing expecting different results over the past ten years just might be the problem...

 

 So what you're saying is...trading Konecny for 34 year old Jeff Petry is the missing piece for the cup! 

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 So what you're saying is...trading Konecny for 34 year old Jeff Petry is the missing piece for the cup! 

 

What? This isn't immediately evident to you?

 

Throw in a 3rd just to make sure.

 

[elmatus]

20 hours ago, CoachX said:

But when your team is sucking, and you are the "leader", I want to see you bring it every night. And by "bring it", I dont mean just scoring goals. Do something,  ANYTHING, to make a difference. 

 

I guess I'm just not sure what this is supposed to mean? He's a skill-based playmaker who has very good ice vision, can create space for others, and is at his best when making high skill passes that few players in the world can do. I feel he's done that very consistently the whole time.

 

I don't think it's fair to suggest he doesn't care or he doesn't try. I think it is fair to suggest he can't do it all, and there are things he shouldn't frankly be asked to do, because that's just not his game. He's scored a bunch of points, so he's clearly "bringing it" in that regard.

 

But if we're not talking about his actual captain duties of motivating the team, working as a go-between with coaches, and dealing with refs, what are we talking about in terms of his captaincy? To me, if we're going to suggest he's not a great captain, those are very much the things we should be considering. It doesn't seem fair to say he's not a good captain because he's not Lindros or Clarke. There are virtually no such players left in the NHL today, but plenty of NHL captains who find success.

 

This is all besides the point of the thread also. Again, in terms of his value to a contending team, his skills make him easily the most impactful player on the market this season. What that fetches in a trade though, with all the challenges related to his status longer term and age, is anyone's guess.