TORT Claim

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

and does he HAVE to deliver a cup for it to be a success?

Short answer no.

For him to be successful the team needs to be hard to play against.

They need to play physically and fast.

There needs to be a toughness and accountability.

The group he made competitive in Columbus wasn't great when he got there. They did have a pretty stacked system of propects and AHL players, but those NHL teams always played 60 minutes of competitive hockey. They got better commensurate with their talent and maturity level, but he had those guys selling out from day one. The guys he chased out, my words, were Bobs...whatever, Dubois??? Panarin wanted a big city, and Jones, again wanted a bigger market. Those guys all played well for a time on Torts' watch.

Of those 4 players, the strangest case was Dubois; something happened with him and the coach/world, he went from "can't miss- to Flyers development path" pretty quickly and unexpectedly.

 

Also the crossing broad article posted by @albertaflyer

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2022/06/flyers-to-hire-john-tortorella-as-next-head-coach.html

 

Is interesting in that it really contradicts the whole Clarke/Holmgren cabal to cement their legacy by ruining the team until their rotted corpses are pulled from the E suite crap that has permeated social media, this site included regarding the Flyers.

Sometimes the fresh perspective points to tried and true values. 

The report says Tortarella scored very highly in the areas the committee valued most heavily and that was leadership and accountability. 

This hire isn't Fletcher being an imbecile, it is Scott helicopter parenting the GM, the search committee signals to me that people are not full of **** when they say no expense will be spared. The hiring committee is a relatively new idea in the world of sports management, I'm glad the Flyers are taking input from outside sources for this important hire.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by mojo1917

[FD19372]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Why do you think Tortorella wiil fail, and does he HAVE to deliver a cup for it to be a success?

Tortorella will fail, because he is a good coach for a veteran team, not this one. No, he doesn't have to deliver a Cup for his tenure to have been a success. I'll take just making the playoffs, especially if this roster doesn't make a huge upgrade (which it needs to). I think he's going rip into this team, further destroy the confidence of the young corps, fight with everyone who doesn't do things EXACTLY his way..right away. He was the wrong choice by Fletcher the Clown.

 

Not that you asked...you didn't...but I'll state it here. Trotz was probably NEVER a serious candidate here. He probably demanded that he become GM and head coach, and the Flyers said no. He knows the Mickey Mouse organization, that the Flyers have become. He knows that they threw their hands up organizationally, at even attempting to become successful on the ice. This is NOT a very talented team, and Trotz knows it. He also knows that this is a glorified *Flyer alumni association, and won't work for it. He wants to win another Cup - not just cash a check, and stroke his own ego. Enter Torts, which will end quickly and disastrously. I can see the orange smoke from Vorhees, NJ.. rising, as we speak.

[Captain Lando]

So what is the consensus on this hiring in the city of Philly right now? I am not just referring to what this forum is saying, but what is being said on Sports radio and outlets like that. Is Flyers Nation still b####ing about this move and blaming management that this is an awful move that will not solve anything or are the fans backing this move and seeing it as a positive thing and something that will somewhat help the club move forward in there process to retool?

[SCFlyguy]

I'm not in Philly, but I doubt the Flyers are being talked about at all on sports radio.

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

Valid points.

You have been one of the people that, for as long as I've known you here, never did like Torts.....like, anywhere, so you staying consistent with that is no surprise.

Perhaps best case scenario for you then would be he doesn't muck up or dull the skillsets of young players, while instilling a no nonsense approach to the game...perhaps that way you may be able to at least tolerate him there  

 

I think that's a fairly decent diagnosis on your part.

 

Because the Flyers really do need a no-nonsense paradigm, but I want to make sure it's also someone who can pull the kids along and draw the best out of them.  Because this organization has spent the last 7-8 years drafting and bringing kids along and they seem to die when they get to the NAHL -- i.e.., as soon as actual Comcast Spectacor staff is directly responsible for development and not some college or juniors coach.

 

We could have a discussion for weeks about whether the picks just weren't NHL players or if the (dis)organization destroyed them (I think there are case studies for both), but while I'm typing, I think Gostisbehere is another example of a player killed in Philly by counter-coaching.

 

Your bolded comment is probably my best answer to @CoachX's "what does success look like?" question.   Obviously, positive results while doing it, but a no nonsense approach that develops and utilizes the skillsets of the young players while getting them to work in a cohesive, intelligent way. 

 

That would be a refreshing change in Philly, to be sure.

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, Captain Lando said:

So what is the consensus on this hiring in the city of Philly right now? I am not just referring to what this forum is saying, but what is being said on Sports radio and outlets like that. Is Flyers Nation still b####ing about this move and blaming management that this is an awful move that will not solve anything or are the fans backing this move and seeing it as a positive thing and something that will somewhat help the club move forward in there process to retool?

Captain Lando, I think the majority of Flyers fans...myself included...realize that the organization is a show run by clowns. We're in the "remove the clowns" phase. I think that, realistically...there's no way that this is going to end well. Tortorella is a good to very good coach for the right team, a team with veterans..as I said before. Not this one. I think he might in fact further RUIN the confidence of many of these young players.

[ruxpin]

If the hiring of Torts over Fletcher's objections causes the latter's resignation, then I'll volunteer to go pick up Torts at the airport.

 

@CoachX, I amend my answer to the "definition of success" question.

Edited June 16, 2022 by ruxpin

[mojo1917]

5 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I'm not in Philly, but I doubt the Flyers are being talked about at all on sports radio.

the only way flyers gets mentioned on philly talk radio is when some says they saw some "flyers" for missing pets on the telephone poles around the Novacare complex.

Edited June 16, 2022 by mojo1917

[FD19372]

3 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I'm not in Philly, but I doubt the Flyers are being talked about at all on sports radio.

They aren't, in general, anyway. The only guy I know of, that ever brings them up..is Al Morganti. It's Eagles and Eagles with a bit of Phillies and Sixers, mixed in.

[Captain Lando]

7 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Captain Lando, I think the majority of Flyers fans...myself included...realize that the organization is a show run by clowns. We're in the "remove the clowns" phase. I think that, realistically...there's no way that this is going to end well. Tortorella is a good to very good coach for the right team, a team with veterans..as I said before. Not this one. I think he might in fact further RUIN the confidence of many of these young players.

Glancing over the Flyers roster there are not very many veteran players on the squad. You have Hayes, Ellis, Van Riemsdyck, Laughton, Jones,Ristolainen, Thompson and Atkinson. I guess you could also throw in Konecny and Provorov, but they are still both kind of young. Atkinson, could have been a key contributor to the hiring of Torts here. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Compete level, attitude, and pride...that's what he is there for.

 

I'm just going to wait to see how this plays out.

 

But these are the things that need to change and be at it's peak level in order to change things.

 

These always seem to be the 3 things that have been devoid of this team since Lavy was here the year they got bounced by a Devils team in the playoffs.

 

Now they have some good pieces on this roster to build around. But first things first the current team needs to be sifted through and the ones who don't fit into the team's plan/goal jettisoned.

 

Hayes, JVR and Risto are the main 3 who will have the biggest issues moving forward into 2023.

 

Not sure i will sign up for watching hockey again next season may still keep my money.

 

But let's see what else transpires between now and the drop of the puck for the new season.

 

Torts is the guy who will be able to be hard and hold the players accountable like some of us wanted.

 

Will it be what this team really needs to get going in the right direction on a consistent basis well i can't say i'm no smarter than any of you guys. I'll just wait and see WTF else are we going to do??

 

What i will not get caught up in here is the constant bitching and moaning about every goddamn thing this team does no matter what and how it will never work because of the past.

 

No one gets a sucker for being right about something negative that could possibly go wrong. 

 

I hope we finally start to see change towards what they need to become. But will we??

 

Carry on yall have fun whining and crying don't let me stop yall............boo hoo.

[CoachX]

 

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

The problem I think is that I want more out of a team than just hockey. I want to like the people involved.

Interesting point.  The internet has llowed so much information, it has tainted my like for the team. I liked it better when I neve rknew who the GM was, what teh cap situation was, or who the front office toolbags were....in other words, the 70's and 80's

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

Torts will “fail” because this team is woefully devoid of talent, but management can’t admit it and doesn’t have a plan to change it

good post. and yes, i was asking you directly, although I appreciate everyone else who answered

 

So you're not saying Torts will fail because he a bad coach, but becasue the team is just beyond repair

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

This was discussed in the last "Top Shelf Hockey" episode on YouTube.  There is talk that Briere is being groomed. 

YAY! we're saved!

[CoachX]

36 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If the hiring of Torts over Fletcher's objections causes the latter's resignation, then I'll volunteer to go pick up Torts at the airport.

 

@CoachX, I amend my answer to the "definition of success" question

atta boy RuX!

[CoachX]

The responses today to the matter at hand just solidify another reason why I love being a Flyers fan

 

[FD19372]

14 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

Interesting point.  The internet has llowed so much information, it has tainted my like for the team. I liked it better when I neve rknew who the GM was, what teh cap situation was, or who the front office toolbags were....in other words, the 70's and 80's

I liked it better when the team was run by hockey people, who knew what they were doing, not alumni that we have to ASSUME know what they're doing. Now, it's just a clown show.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

YAY! we're saved!

 

Well at least he knows first hand what it takes to get to where they need to go.

 

Back in my military years it was always hard for me to take instructions of combat scenarios of tactics, maneuvers and how to conduct ones self in a combat situation from instructors who have been sitting behind a desk their whole career and have never been in these situations. 

 

So yes Danny has earned that from me, because i watched his 2010 playoff run and it was hands down one of the best playoffs performances i have ever witnessed the 2nd best was Big E's 96-97 performance dragging the Flyers to the Cup. (Honorable mention Giroux's 2010 playoff run.)

 

I can't speak for anyone else but i always accepted instructions from experience instructors.

 

Some how makes me trust more of what they say. And Danny and his run was more relevant than from old guys coming from an era where they didn't wear helmets or play team defense. 

 

But that is me and i'm old school....with a splash of some modern way of looking at things.

 

I hope this all works because these last 3 years have exhausted me...

[elmatus]

27 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

Interesting point.  The internet has llowed so much information, it has tainted my like for the team. I liked it better when I neve rknew who the GM was, what teh cap situation was, or who the front office toolbags were....in other words, the 70's and 80's

 

I can appreciate that. That's a very valid point. The internet is a double-edged sword for sure when it comes to that, and in so many other ways.

 

I'm not old enough to remember the 80s, and I wasn't born in the 70s. I mostly remember Lindros and on. The internet wasn't what it is today back then either, but for whatever reasons I remember liking Lindros and the LoD. I'm not from Philly. I'm not even American. Watching a guy come into the league and turn virtually all comers into putty was enough for me at the time. 

 

I started rooting for this team not because of place or any kind of patriotic affiliation. I was a teenage hockey fan and liked those players at a time when I was very impressionable, and it stuck. Without liking the people involved, I wouldn't be a fan of this team at all. Granted, I obviously prefer them winning just like anyone else here, but I want more than just that.

 

Anyway, this feels like it all went a bit off the rails. Clearly Torts is the guy for the next few years. I wish him all the luck in the world. Maybe this is finally the time where he can learn to not be a complete d*** to everyone and everything that dares to look at him funny. I really don't think him being in the position is going to make much difference anyway. I'll just stay away from press conferences and anything "behind the scenes" and hope he doesn't ruin the few semi-shiny pieces we actually have.

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, Captain Lando said:

 Van Riemsdyck, 

 

you mean Van Slothdyck ..... FIFY   I will personally drive him to where ever the Flyers can ship is a$$$$ out to.

Edited June 16, 2022 by pilldoc

[CoachX]

29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Some how makes me trust more of what they say. And Danny and his run was more relevant than from old guys coming from an era where they didn't wear helmets or play team defense. 

yeah, maybe. I get your point. But being a good/great player doesn't make you a good exec. Getrzky was a head coach

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, CoachX said:

yeah, maybe. I get your point. But being a good/great player doesn't make you a good exec. Getrzky was a head coach

 

Sure and for evminutes... Gretzky failure that doesn't I give you Steve Yzerman and Sakic...

 

...so guess we can see where he falls.

 

 

So chill and wait and see.

 

He wasn't Chuck's choice so that is a good sign for me already.

 

But feel free to join the whiners if you wish don't let me stop you.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#Bourbon up

[OccamsRazor]

One of Tort's biggest principal that I agree with that may certainly rub some of these modern stars the wrong way...

 

"You practice how you play. Especially when I turned pro, I learned that from John Tortorella," Atkinson said at his end-of-the-season press conference in late April.

 

...embrace it or GTFO.

[flyer4ever]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

 

Interesting point.  The internet has llowed so much information, it has tainted my like for the team. I liked it better when I neve rknew who the GM was, what teh cap situation was, or who the front office toolbags were....in other words, the 70's and 80's

All 32 teams have the same access to the internet and technology. 30 seem to have figured it out, Fletcher and the Yotes not so much. I hear your thought about not being a click away from the info. I also know that in Toronto in the 70's if I saw Keith Allen's name in a morning headline it meant the Flyers had just gotten even better. Now when I see Chuck Fletchers name anywhere it means the Flyers just got worse.

As long as we're talking technology, I get a good laugh whenever I see anyone on the Flyers bench looking at their Ipads, and then going back on the ice and repeating the same lazy assed behavior. The team currently has no accountability, in every aspect of a hockey operation. If Briere and/or Torts can add even an iota of it, there will be an improvement. 

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

accountability

 

It all starts there.

 

Look in the mirror. Identify your strengths and utilize them.

 

But importantly Identify your weaknesses and work on them to turn it around to not being a weakness any longer.

 

When you do that you can move on to something else.

 

Keep it simple stupid.

 

Edit: Not calling you stupid.

 

Just the old saying.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#Bourbon up