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The Flyers fans Rant Thread after D-Day (Disaster Day)


pilldoc

How do you really feel?  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Rate the Flyers off season so far. (includes Trades / FA signings)

    • A
      1
    • B
      0
    • C
      0
    • D
      6
    • F
      34
  2. 2. Rate the Flyers Draft

    • A - Outstanding
      0
    • B- - Good
      8
    • C - OK
      17
    • D- Meh - could have been better
      11
    • F - Epic Failure
      5
  3. 3. How many games do the Flyers win this season?

    • 50+ (Stanley Cup Bound)
      0
    • 45-50 (Playoff Bound)
      0
    • 35-45 (Close but no playoffs)
      4
    • 25-35 (just a bad hockey team)
      21
    • less than 25 (horrifically bad and in the chase for Bedard)
      16
  4. 4. Will you watch this team at all this year .....

    • Hell Yes! - I am a die hard fan no matter what
      3
    • Yes but not as many games as in years past
      11
    • No - the occasional score check and if I am bored or into FHL
      21
    • Hell No! - this team is a train wreck and a disaster and not worth my time this year.
      6
  5. 5. When do you think Fletch gets fired

    • Oct. (start of the season 10-15 games in)
      6
    • Nov or Dec (15-35 games in)
      10
    • Jan or Feb (35-50 games in)
      7
    • After Feb (50 + games in)
      2
    • He will not be fired during the season
      16


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OK folks..... let it all out here.   So many rants in so many threads.  Lets make it easy and keep all the rants about the recent transactions, err I mean transgressions,  the Flyers made within the past week including FA signings.  

 

Only rule ...keep it civil and try to keep somewhat family friendly .....

 

Go .......

Edited by pilldoc
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7 minutes ago, radoran said:

Not getting Gaudreau at that deal is a plus.

 

 

Yeah, but only because he couldn't get anyone to take JVR's contract. You know he tried. Good thing he had already traded the 2nd and other picks so they weren't available to him, I guess. Sheesh

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Chuck has made exponentially worse decisions the farther down the road he's gone.

 

Truly @radoran 's chasing the dragon bit.

 

 @SCFlyguycompared him to a junkie gambler chasing the big win.

Both are accurate and sad.

 

I wanted to see what he would do before pulling the plug on any sort of good will I'd be willing to extend.

He blew it again.

There were myriad players who could help the team short and medium term that signed to reasonable deals. Vinnie Trotchek got too much IMO but Mason Marchment didn't, neither did MacKenzie Weiger. The were acquired via money only, they're decent dudes and good at hockey. No draft picks, no calling teammates racial slurs, actual, you know, hockey skill.

 

IDGAF about not landing John Gadreau. 

I do care that reasonable available players who could improve the team were ignored. I don't dislike Justin Braun per se, but he does suck. I don't' think I knew about Desauliers until Chuck introduced him and didn't seem to know who he was either.  Who does the firing ? That committee can't move fast enough to suit me.

 

Edit: I'm not excited for the 2023 version of Jack Eichel or (gulp) JvR to "join the Flyers organization".

Edited by mojo1917
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26 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

I accept the stealth tank for Bedard, but then why trade for DeAngelo and give up all those picks, why give Delausiers a bloody 4 year contract???   At lease DeAngelo is only for 2 years.  Even trying to tank in stealth mode Fletch is screwing up royally. 

 

I think the "stealth tank" kicked in when they realized they weren't going to move JVR and that apparently there is a possibility Ellis actually plays next season.

 

Deangelo was made with the idea they were going to get JQH. Lindblom was bought out with the idea they were going to get JQH. They did everything but actually get Gaudreau.

 

Then they went back and filled in with a enforcer and a retread defenceman.

 

 

Edited by radoran
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4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I think the "stealth tank" kicked in when they realized they weren't going to move JVR and that apparently there is a possibility Ellis actually plays next season.

 

Deangelo was made with the idea they were going to get JQH. Lindblom was bought out with the idea they were going to get JQH. They did everything but actually get Gaudreau.

 

Then they went back and filled in with a enforcer and a retread defenceman.

 

 

https://twitter.com/avappleyard/status/1547522964098355201?s=20&t=Qs_iQmKQwPHkmbogkasxkw

 

 

 

 

I can actually buy that line of thinking AND it does make sense on a certain level.  What it appears to be is that good ol Fletch screwed the pooch on evaluating the worth of JVR ......(imagine that ...over valuing a player on the Flyers...insert eye roll here _______ )

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3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

What it appears to be is that good ol Fletch screwed the pooch on evaluating the worth of JVR .

 

I think it means that other teams know the Flyers were in a bad position and weren't there to "help."

 

JVR at $3.5M for one year should have value to someone. But if they know that you are desperate to unload the contract they are going to hold you up for it - especially if you've shown (Deangelo, Ristolainen) that you're willing to be fleeced. Nobody needs JVR.

 

I mean, kudos for not giving up next year's pick, but...

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27 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

I can actually buy that line of thinking AND it does make sense on a certain level.  What it appears to be is that good ol Fletch screwed the pooch on evaluating the worth of JVR ......(imagine that ...over valuing a player on the Flyers...insert eye roll here _______ )

As If Eye Roll GIF by MOODMAN

Edited by CoachX
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I posted this is another thread, but its more appropo here:

 

I have never hated another athlete more than Cindy Crosby. The way the NHL falls all over itself for him. The fact that he's the biggest puss ever. That announcers spend an entire game between two other teams, talking about him. The arrogant self entitled way he carries himself. Because of him, I hate the entire city of Pissburg

 

to me, JVR makes Crosby look like Bobby Clarke in his prime

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2 minutes ago, radoran said:

And, here's O'Connor saying that one of the justifications for bringing on the player was "to protect the youngsters"

so our players are pu$$ies? :hocky:

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1 hour ago, vis said:

The off-season is a failure.  
 

Their stated intention, which I disagree with FWIW, was to “aggressively retool.”   They failed miserably at that.  Their strategy, if they had one, to sign JG was a disaster.  If that’s your goal, you have to know exactly what it will take to get him and be willing to do whatever that is.  It seems like Fletcher got halfway there by buying our Lindblom and maybe also part of the reason for getting DeAngelo.  But he failed to trade JVR because he decided he couldn’t do what was necessary.  His balls shrunk when it came down to it.  Glad they did because JG shouldn’t have been a target, but Chuck failed in achieving his goal.  
 

Braun is a good vet example for young dmen.  I don’t mind the signing.  They will be better off the ice with him, but worse on it.  That’s ok.  
 

Deslauriers at that hit and term on day 1 of UFA is a horrific signing.  I wouldn’t mind him on a two year deal at $1m per year.  I think a player like him can serve a role on this team, but not at that price/term.  
 

No reason to buyout Lindblom for either of those moves.  I hope they at least legitimately tried to deal him before buying him out.  

 

DeAngelo.  Get it from an on-ice perspective.  Do not get it from an off-ice perspective.  Coach: “I think there were locker room issues last year.”  GM: “Let’s bring in a guy with a history of locker room problems.”  Really?  Just hope he behaves here.  Lots of draft capital to give up, which perhaps could have been used…I don’t know…to help with trading JVR instead???

 

Worse, signing DeAngelo and Braun is essentially an admission that Ellis is done.  But Fletcher was happy to hand out that contract last year.  Another failure.   
 

And let’s not forget about resigning Ristolainen in March.  That’s part of the off-season too and also sad and comedic.  
 

And, again, their strategy was to aggressively retool.  Never should have been the case to begin with.  So, their strategy was a failure but also their execution of it.  Double fail.  
 

 

 

Agree with much of this analysis. Good post.

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3 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

DeAngelo is on the top pairing? Oooh, boy... They're going to bleed scoring chances.

 

 

You think they put him second pair with Ristolainen, instead?

 

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

 

 

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8 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You think they put him second pair with Ristolainen, instead?

 

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

 

 

 

heh

 

I'm not saying you don't already know, but ideally, he would be a sheltered 3RD with lots of PP time.

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3 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah, but only because he couldn't get anyone to take JVR's contract. You know he tried. Good thing he had already traded the 2nd and other picks so they weren't available to him, I guess. Sheesh

 

 

So for once in his life JVR was useful to keep Johnny in Columbus...

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Again ... I generally do not post whole article from a paid site.....however, due to the natural of said article here it is. Enjoy.

 

https://theathletic.com/3421254/2022/07/14/philadelphia-flyers-free-agency-trade-fletcher/

 

Just before Philadelphia Flyers general manager Chuck Fletcher walked up to the microphone in the second-floor news conference room at the Flyers Training Center in Voorhees, New Jersey, to reflect on his just-concluded first day of free agency, a chant rose from the lower levels of the facility — the section open to the public.

 

The chant didn’t last long. And perhaps it wasn’t even heard by its intended target. But given a little over an hour’s notice via social media that Fletcher would be speaking, a small group of Flyers fans made the trek just to try to make their opinions heard, and it echoed loud and clear up the stairs:

 

Fire Chuck.

 

The fans who showed up to Voorhees to express their dissatisfaction: pic.twitter.com/K3Hz40eqTI

— Charlie O'Connor (@charlieo_conn) July 13, 2022

 

Yeah, this offseason isn’t exactly going well for the Flyers.

 

In late January, both Fletcher and Comcast Spectacor chairman and CEO Dave Scott promised that the brain trust would soon “aggressively retool” a team that had proven to be one of the worst in the NHL to that point. Scott in particular vowed that “we should be in it next year.” And while Fletcher slightly amended the promise in May, he still compared their plan to that of 2019, when the team added Kevin Hayes, Matt Niskanen and Justin Braun, moves that ultimately helped push them comfortably into a playoff spot. The message from the brass to fans was clear and unequivocal: we’re going to fix this in the near future, so expect big moves.

 

What did those fans get? Tony DeAngelo, an offense-first defenseman who was kicked off his second-to-last team and who stands as one of the most divisive players in the NHL. Nicolas Deslauriers, a 31-year-old enforcer who has averaged six goals a year for the past five seasons. Oh, and a now-35-year-old Braun was brought back after being traded at the deadline.

 

There’s your aggressive retool.

 

“We’re out on all the remaining free agents, with the reality of our cap situation right now,” Fletcher said once he sat down in front of the microphone. “It probably precluded us from looking at some of the more expensive options in the market today. Today, to us, was more about depth signings, getting guys that make us a little bit harder to play against and making sure we have some players on two-way contracts that can move between Lehigh Valley and Philadelphia.”

 

That’s not at all what most Flyers fans were expecting.

 

And it wasn’t just the past promises from Fletcher and Scott. The looming free agency of local star Johnny Gaudreau has been discussed for years in the Philadelphia area, and for good reason. ESPN’s Emily Kaplan reported early in the morning Wednesday that the Flyers were Gaudreau’s top choice; little surprise given that it’s been an open secret in hockey circles for years that Gaudreau would welcome a return to Philadelphia to play for his hometown team, the team he grew up rooting for. So when Gaudreau turned down the final offer from the only NHL club he’s ever known (the Calgary Flames) on Tuesday night and made it clear he was going to market, the stage appeared to be set. Johnny was coming home. Fletcher would fulfill the promise of the aggressive retool, of the “blank check” that Scott vowed in January he had given the GM to return the team to relevancy. At the very least, Gaudreau would provide a reason to show up at the Wells Fargo Center to watch what would likely still be a flawed team.

 

The Flyers didn’t oblige.

 

Truthfully, fans should have seen this outcome from a mile away. Over the past five months, Fletcher and the Flyers have been on a run seemingly tailor-made to crush the spirits of longtime Flyers fans, particularly those of the sentimental or analytically inclined variety.

 

First, the Flyers re-signed analytics whipping boy Rasmus Ristolainen to a laughable five-year, $25.5 million extension. Then, they shipped out Claude Giroux, easily the most popular player on the team. A franchise legend, Giroux almost certainly never really wanted to leave Philadelphia until an increasingly disastrous team-wide situation forced his hand. Then, last week, they traded three picks to give DeAngelo at least a million more per season than his last team was willing to give him, knowing full well that his past actions and vocal political leanings were sure to alienate a not-insignificant section of the fan base. Then, they bought out Oskar Lindblom, maybe the second-most universally beloved player after Giroux, because adding DeAngelo’s $5 million cap hit created too much of a cap crunch to bet on him returning to form two years after beating cancer. And finally, on Wednesday, they signed a 31-year-old enforcer to a four-year, $1.9 million (that’s per year) contract despite already having Ristolainen and Zack MacEwen — both of whom were brought in largely to fill that “hard to play against” role. Oh, and after all that, they didn’t have anywhere near enough cap space to take a run at the local superstar.

 

Unintentional or not, the sheer disdain on display for both long-suffering fans and stat-based logic over this past half-year has been truly staggering on the part of the front office. They’ve shipped out fan favorites, replaced them with players who constantly get stuck in their own end of the ice or are flat defensive liabilities and after acknowledging on multiple occasions that the team’s biggest need was high-end talent, failed to adequately prepare to acquire a 115-point player who seemingly was all but begging to join the club.

So were Flyers fans sold a bill of goods by the front office and ownership?

 

“Well, sold a bill of goods … I mean, we’ve been very aggressive in trying to fix some of our holes,” Fletcher said. “Right now, we felt we had some major holes on defense with the uncertainty around Ryan Ellis. He’s progressed, but there’s no guarantee when he’ll be back. That’s a massive hole in our lineup, which we filled with Tony DeAngelo. Justin Braun is a guy that we know, that was able to come in on an affordable contract and provide depth, and help our penalty kill.”

 

But does this argument really hold up under close inspection? Are the Flyers actually any better than they were in 2021-22 when they were the NHL’s fourth-worst team?

 

Let’s start with the defense. Cam York in for Keith Yandle is a clear upgrade. DeAngelo for Ellis is too, simply because one presumes they’ll get more than four games out of DeAngelo, but there’s no guarantee that DeAngelo will work in the top-pair role that Fletcher — by his own admission Wednesday — is basically penciling him into. Sure, DeAngelo clicked with Jaccob Slavin in Carolina on the first pair. But Slavin is better than Ivan Provorov, and DeAngelo is no lock to click with the demanding John Tortorella, either. Beyond those two changes, the defense is exactly the same as it was in 2021-22. Braun filled a hole that was created by trading … Braun at the deadline. Even the depth guys — Nick Seeler and Kevin Connauton — are back. A defense with DeAngelo in for Ellis and a one year older York in for Yandle might be a bit better, but it’s not scaring anyone — except perhaps Flyers fans.

 

Then, there are the forwards. Yes, the Flyers very well might get 53 more games of a healthy Sean Couturier, if he successfully returns from back surgery. But they’re also going to get 57 fewer games from Giroux, and apparently Fletcher is not going to even try to replace his production in the lineup. Kevin Hayes might be healthier this time around — not a guarantee either, though certainly a hope — but now they have Joel Farabee coming off neck surgery. Unless young players like Morgan Frost or Owen Tippett take big steps forward, it’s difficult to see how the forward group is significantly better on paper than the one the Flyers dressed last season.

 

This has the potential to be a very bad team if only just a few things break against the Flyers.

 

And in truth, that wouldn’t be the worst outcome — if the Flyers were very clearly embarking on a rebuild. It wouldn’t even have to be to the degree of the Chicago Blackhawks, who are executing a scorched-earth teardown at the moment. Just an acknowledgement that the team needs to stockpile as many assets as possible while the next couple years become mostly about developing youngsters and getting high draft picks.

 

The Flyers, of course, aren’t doing that. At least not completely.

 

There are elements of the past few months that felt like a rebuild. The trade of Giroux, for example. The mass call-up of prospects and college free agent signings at the end of the season. And then, finally, the decision on Fletcher’s part to start stockpiling first-round draft picks, rather than use them as ammunition to clear out big contracts like James van Riemsdyk and take a real run at Gaudreau.

 

Had the Flyers fully committed to a rebuild, Fletcher’s unwillingness to clear space at all costs for Gaudreau would have made sense, and might even have been accepted by the fan base. But such an approach is difficult to reconcile with Fletcher’s other moves over the past few months, which imply far more of a win-now plan. The re-signing of Ristolainen, for starters, rather than trading a then-expiring contract for a haul at the deadline. The hiring of Tortorella as well, a coach who certainly has no interest in signing up for a long rebuild. And then the move to trade three mid-round draft picks for DeAngelo. A team simply trying to stockpile assets to build for the future certainly doesn’t make that move.

 

How does a GM keep Ristolainen, hire Tortorella, trade for DeAngelo but then draw the line at clearing sufficient cap space to acquire an actual NHL superstar? The lack of consistency isn’t difficult to spot. So is it a rebuild or a retool? Fletcher was asked.

 

“Well, we’re retooling, Charlie,” he responded, before quickly transitioning into an explanation that sure sounded like the description of a rebuild.

 

“We felt our biggest hole right now, our biggest weaknesses right now were on defense,” he continued. “Adding DeAngelo and Braun, we feel helps our group, gives us a much better top six in the event that Ellis takes longer to heal to get back. If Ellis can come back quicker, we have depth and we can figure out what to do if we have too many good players. It’s not a problem if you have too many good defensemen. Right now, my bigger concern was not having enough good defensemen and relying too much on young players like we did last year. Fixing the defense was extremely important to us.

 

“Up front, we have a lot of young players. We have to see if they can play. We have a lot of young players that require waivers at some point, players like Morgan Frost and Owen Tippett and (Wade) Allison, (Tanner) Laczynski, (Hayden) Hodgson and (Isaac) Ratcliffe. These kids need a chance to play. They need a chance to earn a spot. As an organization, we need to see where they’re at, so you know what we have going forward.”

 

OK, so it’s a rebuild. The Flyers are going to play the kids and use this as a year to evaluate them, all while adding another high pick from an expected-to-be-loaded draft into their farm system. That makes sense. Except if that was truly the plan, wouldn’t Fletcher have not even bothered to try to open up cap space this summer?

 

“I talked to a lot of teams over the last little while about maybe ways to get cap flexibility,” Fletcher said when asked if it was true that he wasn’t willing to include a first-round pick in order to move out van Riemsdyk’s contract. “I don’t know that it’s fair to comment on specific players. We looked at some different options, but the price of moving contracts is really expensive. In some cases, even more expensive than what you indicated to me.”

 

So Fletcher was willing to clear space to buy — the prices were just too high. That would imply that the aggressive retool idea wasn’t fully off the table until very late in the process, which would line up with the Tortorella hire and the DeAngelo trade.

In other words, maybe the reason why the overarching plan seems to have so little coherency and consistency is because it’s changing on the fly. Which barely makes it a plan at all.

 

None of the Flyers’ stated goals hold up under scrutiny. They want to be “harder to play against,” but the players they’re acquiring to do so (Ristolainen, Deslauriers, MacEwen) have historically made it significantly easier for the other team to have the puck the majority of the time. They want to be building for the future, but they’re still burning draft picks on DeAngelo with the aim of … protecting York and Ronnie Attard from tougher minutes as rookies? They want to improve now, but after an offseason that — assuming there are no more big moves looming — they didn’t improve the team much on paper, they’re banking almost entirely on the impact of their new coaching staff and a questionably constructed blue line corps to drive said improvement. Both are legitimate unknowns.

 

“I just want us to pick a direction,” T.J. Edwards — one of the fans who showed up at the Flyers Training Center to express his displeasure with Fletcher and the Flyers — explained after Fletcher’s availability concluded. “Are we gonna go for it? If we’re gonna go for it, then let’s go for it. If not, let’s tear it down and rebuild. The middle ground’s getting us nowhere. I’m sick and tired of this mediocrity.”

 

Edwards isn’t alone.

Edited by pilldoc
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1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

ow does a GM keep Ristolainen, hire Tortorella, trade for DeAngelo but then draw the line at clearing sufficient cap space to acquire an actual NHL superstar? The lack of consistency isn’t difficult to spot. So is it a rebuild or a retool? Fletcher was asked.

 

“Well, we’re retooling, Charlie,” he responded, before quickly transitioning into an explanation that sure sounded like the description of a rebuild.

 

“We felt our biggest hole right now, our biggest weaknesses right now were on defense,” he continued. “Adding DeAngelo and Braun, we feel helps our group, gives us a much better top six in the event that Ellis takes longer to heal to get back. If Ellis can come back quicker, we have depth and we can figure out what to do if we have too many good players. It’s not a problem if you have too many good defensemen. Right now, my bigger concern was not having enough good defensemen and relying too much on young players like we did last year. Fixing the defense was extremely important to us.

 

“Up front, we have a lot of young players. We have to see if they can play. We have a lot of young players that require waivers at some point, players like Morgan Frost and Owen Tippett and (Wade) Allison, (Tanner) Laczynski, (Hayden) Hodgson and (Isaac) Ratcliffe. These kids need a chance to play. They need a chance to earn a spot. As an organization, we need to see where they’re at, so you know what we have going forward.”

 

OK, so it’s a rebuild. The Flyers are going to play the kids and use this as a year to evaluate them, all while adding another high pick from an expected-to-be-loaded draft into their farm system. That makes sense. Except if that was truly the plan, wouldn’t Fletcher have not even bothered to try to open up cap space this summer?

 

 

This right here is Fletcher being a POS.  Talking from both ends of his rear.  I want him fired.  Period.  The sooner the better.

 

His crappy answers prove he and the rest of the FO cronies have no idea in which to steer this organization.

 

The Flyers MUST go the rout of the Blackhawks, who are executing a scorched-earth teardown at the moment.  Ok, maybe not as severe, but you get my drift.  There is no way to fix this mess except to fire the entire FO and start from scratch .......

 

Boat GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

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I think I laid down my rant yesterday in one of the other threads, but IMO the "stealth tank" happened when Chuck stepped backward in **** after seeing how all his previous misdealings prevented him from making yet another cap-crippling move. He accidentally did the right thing by handcuffing himself in the rookie-level EA Sports BE A GM game mode he's playing. Like American politics, there's no accountability here, and no consequences unless you're as stupid as Al Franken. There's no wonder why the directionless ineptitude at the top makes its way to the ice.

 

It has fck all to do with his "strategy" if he ever had one, which we know he doesn't and neither does anyone above the coach level past drawing Xs and Os on the whiteboard. I don't know who's *really* to blame here: is it Homer and Clarke as master of puppets? Is it braindead, clueless Dave Scott? Is it Valerie and the Comcast marketing team? I do know that Chuck will get, and deserves, 100% of the blame right now. And the team is just as clueless and braindead. That post announcing Deslauriers yesterday was an absolute insult to the fans.

 

 

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