Flyers are a bottom five team, what are the desired plans for the rebuild we don't need?

[RonJeremy]

4 hours ago, FD19372 said:

If they...Fletcher...or whoever, gets a second rounder for JVR, they should take it and run. In my opinion, they'll be lucky to get a 3rd.

Teams have always overpaid at the deadline for a playoff run. JVR is a valuable PP guy, I really think we can get a second if he plays well. His contract is expiring,so he’s strictly a playoff rental.

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, Holymakinaw said:

 

We don't want your bad players.  Sorry.  You have to keep him.

 

Y'all should trade just about everyone else tho, and really bottom out for a chance at Bedard.  You won't be winning any time soon with Atkinson, JVR, Hayes, Laughton, Provorov (he's youngish but he stinks defensively too).  Fire sale.  Everything must go.  And then the healing can begin one day soon.

I’m sorry but your GM is hanging on by a thread, he will take Risto In a desperate move to have a physical presence for the playoffs because anything less than at least a trip to the Cup means big trouble for Toronto. So I’m trying to help the Leafs.  

[OccamsRazor]

15 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

You tear it down but you don't gut it of everything and leave nothing.

 

Exactly some good pieces to build with...

 

 

Hart

Ersson

 

Provorov

Sanheim

York

Zamula

Andrea

Attard

 

Konecny

Farabee

Tippett

Allison

Cates

Foerster

Desnoyers

Gauthier 

 

But stables still have room. I can't say for sure there are Super Stars in there. But a lot of good hockey talent to fill in around.

 

They need some much need upper skill. Otherwise throwing darts at the board...

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

I don't think he said TDA is a cornerstone piece but whatever he is he's played very well for the Flyers so far. Best of all he's kept his mouth shut. 

 

Ok, if we're nitpicking he didn't use the actual term "cornerstone", but he listed all of 3 players to keep, which to me means cornerstone, no?

 

I know +/- isn't everything, but when you have the 2nd worst +/- on a really crappy team it doesn't mean you're playing "very well" either. Unless you mean in comparison to how well Fletcher is managing, then yes, he's playing very well. And yes, in his career of....25 games with the Flyers he's kept his mouth shut. He's never kept his mouth shut for long on ANY team he's ever been on, so I'm going to bet he doesn't keep it shut for the duration of his contract.  

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

. JVR is a valuable PP guy, I really think we can get a second if he plays well.

 

 

Haha! Good one!

[flyercanuck]

56 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

They need some much need upper skill. Otherwise throwing darts at the board...

 

 

They need a guy to acquire that who knows what that looks like...cause the guy they have now certainly doesn't. 

[RonJeremy]

55 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Haha! Good one!

You don’t think a second round pick for a 20 goal net front scorer is reasonable ? 

[flyercanuck]

27 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

You don’t think a second round pick for a 20 goal net front scorer is reasonable ? 

 

Sure. But you said "if he plays well". And he's done that for about 20 shifts in 8 years as a Flyer. 

[GratefulFlyers]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

my thoughts on Konecny  and Provy is basically this… both are UFAs in two seasons after this, both will be  near thirty.

Sure if you consider 27 “near 30” - I mean they’re both just 25 now and neither one has hit his prime or reached his potential. We’ve seen spurts from both and TK is further along so I think it’d be a mistake to trade either one. You may be right they may want to test the market but that’s a conversation for next year. 
 

Provorov’s game, his level of play is so dependent on the rest of the team, more than any other Flyer I can recall. He rises and falls with the team like he’s some kind of human barometer. Maybe that’s a knock on him but it also means as the team gets tighter, more mistake-free Provorov will fit right in.
 

Will it cost the Flyers a healthy chunk of the cap to resign them? Yes but what’s the alternative? You’re going to pay somebody to defend, to score goals. Might as well be 2 of your best homegrown talent. 

[tucson83]

8 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Sure if you consider 27 “near 30” - I mean they’re both just 25 now and neither one has hit his prime or reached his potential. We’ve seen spurts from both and TK is further along so I think it’d be a mistake to trade either one. You may be right they may want to test the market but that’s a conversation for next year. 
 

Provorov’s game, his level of play is so dependent on the rest of the team, more than any other Flyer I can recall. He rises and falls with the team like he’s some kind of human barometer. Maybe that’s a knock on him but it also means as the team gets tighter, more mistake-free Provorov will fit right in.
 

Will it cost the Flyers a healthy chunk of the cap to resign them? Yes but what’s the alternative? You’re going to pay somebody to defend, to score goals. Might as well be 2 of your best homegrown talent. 

 

i think provy is the type that he wont be that top 2 guy, he doesnt score, he doesnt defend, he makes the same mistakes for last 5 years in terms of turnovers, that's not what a top 2 dman does. they score, they defend, they get the puck of the zone, provy doesnt do none of those things and i wont be surprised he will be moved, risto as well, we need more puck movers on d, we have too many stay at home dman that cant move the puck out, that's why we are struggling in our dzone, keep getting outshot every game.

 

the forwards i can see what the problems are, not enough shoot first type of players and too much passing around that's causing more turnovers and odd man rushes. we are not going to win hockey games this way, whoever the gm is bottom line is we have to get more offensive players and puck movers through drafting, fa, trades.

[GrittyForever]

17 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Yes.

 

 

 Ok.

 

 

Huh? This guy is a cornerstone piece? 

he isn't a cornerstone piece but he wanted to be in Philly so I think the team will keep him. That's all. 

[GrittyForever]

7 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

We have York and Attard knocking on the door, DeAngelo is solid but in the long run for a rebuild, you don’t need him. Konecny is 2.5 years away from UFA and a huge payday. Would you stay for second rebuild after six years of losing  or would you sign with a contender? Why would a rebuilding team give a 29 year old UFA a seven year eight million dollar contract ? We haven’t learned from Hayes, Coots and Ellis.  Y the time the team is decent , Konecny will be washed up. 

You need veteran leadership though, and right now Konecny is stepping into that role. No you don't NEED DeAngelo but he wants to be here so I think he stays. He isn't terrible and you need defensive depth. So if he moves down the line up so what? Will just mean we are getting good. 

I wouldn't overpay Konecny, but I would try to sign him. 

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ok, if we're nitpicking he didn't use the actual term "cornerstone", but he listed all of 3 players to keep, which to me means cornerstone, no?

No it doesn't. But there's no reason to get rid of him either. he isn't terrible and he wants to be here so why not keep him? End of his contract you reevaluate where you are and where he wants to be and what his place is. If Torts thinks he's a valuable asset we definitely keep him. 

[radoran]

4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Sure if you consider 27 “near 30” - I mean they’re both just 25 now and neither one has hit his prime or reached his potential.

 

This is both true and also an indictment of the franchise.

 

Provorov was tapped as a potential #1 from the jump. Where is that?

 

I get that the overall roster is lacking.

 

Is Provorov a legit #1 on a different squad at this point in his career? He's 25, wearing an A, and paid to be an impact performer.

 

Projecting forward, he and Sanheim would be the foundation of the Flyer defense.

 

How does that make folks feel?

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

he isn't a cornerstone piece but he wanted to be in Philly so I think the team will keep him. That's all. 

 

Hayes wants to be in Philly, after he said he didn't unless they overpaid him, which they did, so now he loves making way more money than he's worth for putting in half effort games which is why Winnipeg and the Rangers (teams we look up at in the standings) didn't want him........and neither do I. 

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

 he isn't terrible and he wants to be here 

 

If only he was from Minnesota that would hit the Chuck Fletcher trifecta of how to construct a team. Which is why we completely suck. Ok, so half of Chucks acquisitions are terrible. But they want to be here, so we got that going for us. Well, some of them want to be here. Some just were basically bribed into coming.

Edited December 7, 2022 by flyercanuck

[mojo1917]

9 hours ago, radoran said:

Projecting forward, he and Sanheim would be the foundation of the Flyer defense.

 

How does that make folks feel?

 

I mean, not terrible.

They are not bad hockey players. 

Neither are ZOMG Cale Makar level talents...but there are only a few of those cats around at any one time.

Both players are top 4 talents.

Neither seem to be top dog though, maybe Sanhiem has a little more of that in him? he seems to carry his partners a little better than Provorov. Now is that because Provorov is asked to make heavier lifts?  I don't see that-but there might be analytics that show otherwise.

Having "not questions" for 2 positions in your top 4 D can be the start of something.

What are the other 2 players in that top 4?  that's where a dynamic puck moving player and a solid defender with an excellent first pass/touch need found or developed.

I thought the extension for Sanhiem was too long, I thought the .aav was market range. Everything I've ever read about that guy says he's worthy of the investment because of his character and work ethic. 

Provorov, when he's not on TikTok, is a highly motivated and prepared player who takes care of himself and always finds a way to be available.

I wouldn't mind those guys being around to show the young talented hotdogs how to "pro" in addition to being steady influences on the team during their minutes. 

 

[CoachX]

13 hours ago, radoran said:

Is Provorov a legit #1 on a different squad at this point in his career? He's 25, wearing an A, and paid to be an impact performer.

 

Projecting forward, he and Sanheim would be the foundation of the Flyer defense.

 

How does that make folks feel?

Depends on what the remaining roster looks like. Right now I makes me feel like choking Santa Claus

[OccamsRazor]

13 hours ago, radoran said:

Projecting forward, he and Sanheim would be the foundation of the Flyer defense.

 

How does that make folks feel?

 

Without knowing who is going to take their spot I am good with those two moving forward I think Torts can do something with their skill set.

[radoran]

5 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I mean, not terrible.

They are not bad hockey players. 

 

Yeah, people have been wavering on Provorov a bit and Sanheim was worrisome until this recent hot streak. Perhaps he can keep it up.

 

I think we project York into the Top 4 and then they're - still looking for that "True #1"?

 

Lots of teams are...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

"True #1"?

 

Emil Andrea

 

 

But would they be patient and let him develop?? He'll 21 in February. Not sure how long before he comes over.

 

Not my words but i read somewhere a few weeks ago this kid was said to have that type of upside from what he has seen so far.

 

It was a Swedish article and i had to translate it and i do know know the creditability of the guy who wrote it so as far as i know it could have been a FillDill type nut.

 

But even a few years if your 2nd pair becomes Ivan and Travis on the right side (i think if put there he can learn it) i am good with that.

 

York and Attard on the bottom pair.

 

Pieces you can move.

 

RR

TDA

 

Zamula for now the 7th? Or traded for... 

 

 

[GrittyForever]

12 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Hayes wants to be in Philly, after he said he didn't unless they overpaid him, which they did, so now he loves making way more money than he's worth for putting in half effort games which is why Winnipeg and the Rangers (teams we look up at in the standings) didn't want him........and neither do I. 

So what's your f'n point besides bitching and whining? 

the team is what it is. Yes, it's Fletcher's fault. We all know this. So what's the point of complaining about Hayes forever? there is none. 

You improve until he's irrelevant (like JVR is now) or you just let the contract run out when it does. If you could trade him you do, but you won't be able to with his salary so you just live with it. 

[GrittyForever]

12 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

If only he was from Minnesota that would hit the Chuck Fletcher trifecta of how to construct a team. Which is why we completely suck. Ok, so half of Chucks acquisitions are terrible. But they want to be here, so we got that going for us. Well, some of them want to be here. Some just were basically bribed into coming.

Right. And? 

Your entire post is yesterday's news. 

[Podein25]

23 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

And he's done that for about 20 shifts in 8 years as a Flyer

 

On a pro-rated basis he's not only the highest paid hockey player in league history, he's the highest paid anything. Truly incredible. 

[GratefulFlyers]

7 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Provorov, when he's not on TikTok,

What’s this about? Is Provorov some kind of big deal on Tik Tok or something? I’m flashing back to the Center City Crew and the Dry Island drama. Say it ain’t so…