Flyers are a bottom five team, what are the desired plans for the rebuild we don't need?

[RonJeremy]

The games are a bore, there is nothing exciting to discuss. We will finish in the bottom five, so let's look at potential deadline trades....injuries to other teams and multiple teams bidding could drive up the price for our players . If we gut the roster and Coots does not come back, we are assured of a  top three pick. Here's my thoughts on what players we can dump and potential cost or return. 

 

JVR- contract expiring , if he scores 20-25 ,I can see a playoff team giving up a second rounder for a PP net front scorer.

 

DeAngelo-  he has one more year after this ,depending how he continues to play, I think we can get a second and third for him, plenty of teams could use a righthand PP dman who can move the puck.

 

Hayes- hes putting up good numbers, he's still lazy and has 3 more years after this at 7 million. If he continues to play well we may be able to dump him but we would probably have to throw in picks or pickup big $$,unless a top playoff team loses a center to injury. 

 

Risto- four years left after this, he's only a -2,so he's having a career season. Still an overpaid underachiever. Unless we throw in picks or a prospect,  it will be hard to move him, unless a team gets a catastrophic injury on defense and they are desperate. 

 

Atkinson- considering he's missed so much time, I'm not sure if a team would take a risk on him, unless it's for a conditional pick based on games played and production. 

 

Provorov and Konecny ,both players only have two more years left after this and they will be UFAs. Konecny looks like he's on his way to a career season, Provorov is doing better than last year. So both players have been through a failed six year rebuild and are facing another rebuild. Do you really think they wanna stick around for that? I don't see either player not testing the UFA market. Trading these two guys will get us our biggest returns and start the rebuild properly. Especially if Konecny has a career season.

 

Hart- he's a good young goalie, he's due a new contract at the end of 23/24 , the team will suck for at least another 4-5 years, he will be close to thirty by then . Do we trade him or let him suffer on a rebuilding team ?  Or sign a washed up vet and let him get hung out to dry with Sandstrom, while we develop Ersson ,who actually looks real good.

 

Braun, Willman,Charlie Brown, Sedlak are all on expiring contracts, you might get a third for Braun and a third for Sedlak. Willman and Brown are worthless. 

 

Coots and Ellis, let's hope both retire, I sure don't want to tie up 13 million on two injured fading players during a rebuild. The moron Fletcher will not be able to rationalize anything but a rebuild if these two guys don't come back. That's what I am hoping for.

 

Let York, Attard, Forrester and Desoyners develop in the AHL for the most part, give them a few NHL games here and there after the  trade deadline, give Gauthier some AHL time when the college season ends and if does well , a few NHL games. Everyone else on the Flyers roster you keep for next year,  sign Frost for one more chance and let all these young guys battle for rosters spots next year. 

I would rather watch some skilled young players lose than watch Charlie Brown and Braun bore me to death and lose.  If you lose 3-1 or 5-1 its still a loss.

[GrittyForever]

Well it's going to be tough, but who knows. The draft is the key. 

 

Not sure we will be bottom 5 with some of the crap out west. Bottom 10 definitely, bottom 5 maybe. Unlikely to be dead last (Ducks are horrible). 

 

We're stuck with Risto. He is what he is, hopefully Torts keeps him mediocre reasonable, but there's very little chance he gets moved. 

I'd like to see JVR deadline dealt. Just make him be gone. A bag of pucks is fine. 

Atkinson's a serious question mark but I suspect he stays here. 

Hayes, lol, sorry, he ain't going anywhere and we will continue to hate him for at least 2 more years, probably 3. 

DeAngelo, Provorov, Konecny, that's our core for now. Is what it is. 

Goaltending is fine, and you do not trade a solid goalie. If we did that, well that would signal total tear down and that won't happen (even if it should).

 

I doubt Coots and Ellis retire. not sure if they give us much or anything, but they aren't going to walk away from their money (would you?). 

 

We can assemble a solid 4th line bottom end to this roster with grit and sandpaper. We can be hard to play against, but we will lack top end talent until prospects develop or we draft more. Which ones? idk. That's another discussion I think. The way the league is now I actually expect Gauthier to start the season next year as a Flyer. Whether or not he stays or goes down will be determined by how he plays but the trend these days is to play the kids and get them the NHL coaching and I expect we will follow that trend. 

[RonJeremy]

5 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Well it's going to be tough, but who knows. The draft is the key. 

 

Not sure we will be bottom 5 with some of the crap out west. Bottom 10 definitely, bottom 5 maybe. Unlikely to be dead last (Ducks are horrible). 

 

We're stuck with Risto. He is what he is, hopefully Torts keeps him mediocre reasonable, but there's very little chance he gets moved. 

I'd like to see JVR deadline dealt. Just make him be gone. A bag of pucks is fine. 

Atkinson's a serious question mark but I suspect he stays here. 

Hayes, lol, sorry, he ain't going anywhere and we will continue to hate him for at least 2 more years, probably 3. 

DeAngelo, Provorov, Konecny, that's our core for now. Is what it is. 

Goaltending is fine, and you do not trade a solid goalie. If we did that, well that would signal total tear down and that won't happen (even if it should).

 

I doubt Coots and Ellis retire. not sure if they give us much or anything, but they aren't going to walk away from their money (would you?). 

 

We can assemble a solid 4th line bottom end to this roster with grit and sandpaper. We can be hard to play against, but we will lack top end talent until prospects develop or we draft more. Which ones? idk. That's another discussion I think. The way the league is now I actually expect Gauthier to start the season next year as a Flyer. Whether or not he stays or goes down will be determined by how he plays but the trend these days is to play the kids and get them the NHL coaching and I expect we will follow that trend. 

So if they don't retire and go to LTI , as long as we get the cap space I, don't care. I just don't want them coming back. So with no Coots or Ellis, If we trade Provy, JVR, DeAngelo and Konecny, I think that definitely puts us in the bottom three picks . I'd rather trade Konecny and Provy now then lose them as UFAS in a couple of years. They are the most valuable trade chips. Why would you keep Hart for another 5 year rebuild, it makes no sense. Fletcher will be fired by years end, they can say what they want but a rebuild is imminent. 

[RonJeremy]

12 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Well it's going to be tough, but who knows. The draft is the key. 

 

Not sure we will be bottom 5 with some of the crap out west. Bottom 10 definitely, bottom 5 maybe. Unlikely to be dead last (Ducks are horrible). 

 

We're stuck with Risto. He is what he is, hopefully Torts keeps him mediocre reasonable, but there's very little chance he gets moved. 

I'd like to see JVR deadline dealt. Just make him be gone. A bag of pucks is fine. 

Atkinson's a serious question mark but I suspect he stays here. 

Hayes, lol, sorry, he ain't going anywhere and we will continue to hate him for at least 2 more years, probably 3. 

DeAngelo, Provorov, Konecny, that's our core for now. Is what it is. 

Goaltending is fine, and you do not trade a solid goalie. If we did that, well that would signal total tear down and that won't happen (even if it should).

 

I doubt Coots and Ellis retire. not sure if they give us much or anything, but they aren't going to walk away from their money (would you?). 

 

We can assemble a solid 4th line bottom end to this roster with grit and sandpaper. We can be hard to play against, but we will lack top end talent until prospects develop or we draft more. Which ones? idk. That's another discussion I think. The way the league is now I actually expect Gauthier to start the season next year as a Flyer. Whether or not he stays or goes down will be determined by how he plays but the trend these days is to play the kids and get them the NHL coaching and I expect we will follow that trend. 

You know Toronto lost Muzzin with a back injury ,he's done for the year. Toronto is a team that got pushed around in the playoffs and would just be dumb enough to take Risto off our hands I would eat 1.5 million per year for the remaining four years, so Toronto could have him at 3.5 mil per year. Never underestimate a desperate team.

[flyercanuck]

Who's worse than Ristolainen with an even worse contract? Cause that's what you're getting in a trade.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by flyercanuck

[Samifan]

Best part of this thread is how the nickname Charlie Brown has not only stuck, but is the only named used to reference that guy.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

Who's worse than Ristolainen with an even worse contract? Cause that's what you're getting in a trade.

 

When Fletcher is fired ,our new GM can trade Risto to Fletcher and his new team. I’ve solved the problem.

[GrittyForever]

10 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

So if they don't retire and go to LTI , as long as we get the cap space I, don't care. I just don't want them coming back. So with no Coots or Ellis, If we trade Provy, JVR, DeAngelo and Konecny, I think that definitely puts us in the bottom three picks . I'd rather trade Konecny and Provy now then lose them as UFAS in a couple of years. They are the most valuable trade chips. Why would you keep Hart for another 5 year rebuild, it makes no sense. Fletcher will be fired by years end, they can say what they want but a rebuild is imminent. 

That's not how you do it. You tear it down but you don't gut it of everything and leave nothing. Sabres did that when they tanked for McDavid (got Eichel) and it resulted in them sucking for a decade and maybe only now rebuilding. If you have a franchise goalie in this league you lock him up for 8 years, not trade him away. He's the cornerstone. Konecny and DeAngelo aren't going anywhere either. They will be re-signed. Provy not so sure. JVR is a dead man walking. 

[GrittyForever]

10 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

You know Toronto lost Muzzin with a back injury ,he's done for the year. Toronto is a team that got pushed around in the playoffs and would just be dumb enough to take Risto off our hands I would eat 1.5 million per year for the remaining four years, so Toronto could have him at 3.5 mil per year. Never underestimate a desperate team.

maybe, but I think unlikely. 

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

 If you have a franchise goalie in this league you lock him up for 8 years, not trade him away. He's the cornerstone.

 

 Yes.

 

4 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Konecny

 

 Ok.

 

4 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

 

and DeAngelo aren't going anywhere either. 

 

Huh? This guy is a cornerstone piece? 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

Huh? This guy is a cornerstone piece? 

So much so that a franchise that perceives itself as a contender let him walk without even attempting to keep him.

 

In favor of a 37 yr old whose best days are behind him.

 

Where's your argument?

[GratefulFlyers]

Great. Jettison everybody. Trade Hart. Move Provorov. Get rid of TK. Gut the team!! Outstanding.

 

and then what? Begin the search for a goalie who's as good as Hart. Get a D-man with the upside of Provorov. Find a 30-goal scorer like TK...

 

Of course prune the scrubs but don't lose your best players in the process. Identifying who's who is what this year is all about.

 

edit: nothing personal @RonJeremy I know you're looking for answers. I just think if you're going to do a clean sweep then start in the front office that's where the cobwebs are clogging up the process.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by GratefulFlyers

[GratefulFlyers]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Huh? This guy is a cornerstone piece? 

 

I don't think he said TDA is a cornerstone piece but whatever he is he's played very well for the Flyers so far. Best of all he's kept his mouth shut. 

[mojo1917]

I have thoughts about this;

First and foremost. Chuck Fletcher is not involved in any aspect of rebuilding the roster.

Thanks for the analytics department, and the beefed-up scouting, but get the **** out and never come back.

 

I attach zero picks or prospects as sweeteners to get out of cap trouble. 

As the next GM noticed, dudes aren't playing ball, so **** 'em, they can't have my picks or my good players. I will spend comcast's endless money to buyout people I don't want to play for my team.

No one is untradeable, the exception at the moment is Carter Hart. There are guys I'd like to keep around; Farrabee, Tippet, Cates, Konecny, Provorov, Sanhiem maybe Murder Face...but if someone wants to give a 1st, 2nd or blocked prospect...see ya later. That's it for the NHL roster everyone is available for the right price.

 

Next; I pay a not insignificant portion of Kevin Hayes contract for the remainder of it's life. maybe 3m aav next year, 2 aav in year 2 and 1.5 in year 3. 

I do the same for Ristolaienen maybe there is a team that wants a physical right hand shot who can skate and he actually brings a little value. If not, I will split his salary in the same decreasing fashion as Hayes but if there are zero takers. I pay him to not play for my team. 

 

**** Ryan Ellis.  I trade him for nothing, or buy him out. (it's not my money, that's for you SC,) I do think buying out all these guys would amount to the equivalent of one dead money player @ around >6.8 aav.  But if my scouting department gets the picks right, I can play kids who are team controlled until that player becomes Nick Delauriers instead of Travis Sanheim. 

I love Couturier, but I buy him out too. I ask him to stay around the team in some sort of capacity, skills coach, pro-development coach.... but I'm not going into every season having his availability being a question mark.

 

I try to move JvR at the deadline to recoup some of my draft depth, if he's scoring maybe he fetches a 2nd...if I can't trade him. I let him walk. 

 

Comcast doesn't want to pay attention to the team... well they will when they see they're paying 5 dudes 38 million dollars to not play for the team. 

That ought to either get them to put serious talent and resources toward the team or sell it to some ego maniac like John Montgomery who just wants to shag infield grounders and win. 

The rebuild doesn't have to be 5 years, the team can be competitive in 3 if some things break right, some high picks pan out, some guys near their ceiling. 

I don't trust too many of the existing brass to get a rebuild right, so I Frank Slade the E suite. 

hoo-ah

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by mojo1917

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I have thoughts about this;

First and foremost. Chuck Fletcher is not involved in any aspect of rebuilding the roster.

Thanks for the analytics department, and the beefed-up scouting, but get the **** out and never come back.

 

I attach zero picks or prospects as sweeteners to get out of cap trouble. 

As the next GM noticed, dudes aren't playing ball, so **** 'em, they can't have my picks or my good players. I will spend comcast's endless money to buyout people I don't want to play for my team.

No one is untradeable, the exception at the moment is Carter Hart. There are guys I'd like to keep around; Farrabee, Tippet, Cates, Konecny, Provorov, Sanhiem maybe Murder Face...but if someone wants to give a 1st, 2nd or blocked prospect...see ya later. That's it for the NHL roster everyone is available for the right price.

 

Next; I pay a not insignificant portion of Kevin Hayes contract for the remainder of it's life. maybe 3m aav next year, 2 aav in year 2 and 1.5 in year 3. 

I do the same for Ristolaienen maybe there is a team that wants a physical right hand shot who can skate and he actually brings a little value. If not, I will split his salary in the same decreasing fashion as Hayes but if there are zero takers. I pay him to not play for my team. 

 

**** Ryan Ellis.  I trade him for nothing, or buy him out. (it's not my money, that's for you SC,) I do think buying out all these guys would amount to the equivalent of one dead money player @ around 6 aav.  But if my scouting department gets the picks right, I can play kids who are team controlled until that player becomes Nick Delauriers instead of Travis Sanheim. 

I love Couturier, but I buy him out too. I ask him to stay around the team in some sort of capacity, skills coach, pro-development coach.... but I'm not going into every season having his availability being a question mark.

 

I try to move JvR at the deadline to recoup some of my draft depth, if he's scoring maybe he fetches a 2nd...if I can't trade him. I let him walk. 

 

Comcast doesn't want to pay attention to the team... well they will when they see they're paying 5 dudes 38 million dollars to not play for the team. 

That ought to either get them to put serious talent and resources toward the team or sell it to some ego maniac like John Montgomery who just wants to shag infield grounders and win. 

The rebuild doesn't have to be 5 years, the team can be competitive in 3 if some things break right, some high picks pan out, some guys near their ceiling. 

I don't trust too many of the existing brass to get a rebuild right, so I Frank Slade the E suite. 

hoo-ah

 

 

 

Agree 100% .... Honestly this might be the only way out of this hell hole they created ........

[FD19372]

21 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

JVR- contract expiring , if he scores 20-25 ,I can see a playoff team giving up a second rounder for a PP net front scorer.

 

If they...Fletcher...or whoever, gets a second rounder for JVR, they should take it and run. In my opinion, they'll be lucky to get a 3rd.

[Holymakinaw]

20 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

You know Toronto lost Muzzin with a back injury ,he's done for the year. Toronto is a team that got pushed around in the playoffs and would just be dumb enough to take Risto off our hands I would eat 1.5 million per year for the remaining four years, so Toronto could have him at 3.5 mil per year. Never underestimate a desperate team.

 

We don't want your bad players.  Sorry.  You have to keep him.

 

Y'all should trade just about everyone else tho, and really bottom out for a chance at Bedard.  You won't be winning any time soon with Atkinson, JVR, Hayes, Laughton, Provorov (he's youngish but he stinks defensively too).  Fire sale.  Everything must go.  And then the healing can begin one day soon.

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Great. Jettison everybody. Trade Hart. Move Provorov. Get rid of TK. Gut the team!! Outstanding.

 

and then what? Begin the search for a goalie who's as good as Hart. Get a D-man with the upside of Provorov. Find a 30-goal scorer like TK...

 

Of course prune the scrubs but don't lose your best players in the process. Identifying who's who is what this year is all about.

 

This.   Completely this.    Yes, we need a rebuild, but keep the pieces that would make sense to rebuild around.   Those you list are prime examples.  Hart, in particular, but all three.

[CoachX]

My plan for the rebuild is to not watch any of the games, making it so I don't have to think about it. Frankly it makes my head hurt and will do long term damage to my liver. From afar I will pick up a tidbit or two of info so that I don't come off sounding any more incoherent than usual in my posts. I don't care who they keep, or who they trade. The only guy I like right now is Torts.  They created this mess and they can go fck themselves silly until it gets fixed, Im not buying.

 

Go Eagles!

 

[Math]

18 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Who's worse than Ristolainen with an even worse contract? Cause that's what you're getting in a trade.

 

 

Debatable of course, but mitigating the player's age, his salary amount and length with the degree of suckage, I'd say Jones, Vlasic and Fowler.

 

Ryan Suter is also a much worse player than Ristolainen but his contract is not that terrible and he's buyout-friendly.

[radoran]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

**** Ryan Ellis.  I trade him for nothing, or buy him out.

 

Pretty sure you can't buy out injured players.

 

You would need to sweeten it, which I know you don't want

[Cheesesteak]

4 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I have thoughts about this;

First and foremost. Chuck Fletcher is not involved in any aspect of rebuilding the roster.

Thanks for the analytics department, and the beefed-up scouting, but get the **** out and never come back.

 

I attach zero picks or prospects as sweeteners to get out of cap trouble. 

As the next GM noticed, dudes aren't playing ball, so **** 'em, they can't have my picks or my good players. I will spend comcast's endless money to buyout people I don't want to play for my team.

No one is untradeable, the exception at the moment is Carter Hart. There are guys I'd like to keep around; Farrabee, Tippet, Cates, Konecny, Provorov, Sanhiem maybe Murder Face...but if someone wants to give a 1st, 2nd or blocked prospect...see ya later. That's it for the NHL roster everyone is available for the right price.

 

Next; I pay a not insignificant portion of Kevin Hayes contract for the remainder of it's life. maybe 3m aav next year, 2 aav in year 2 and 1.5 in year 3. 

I do the same for Ristolaienen maybe there is a team that wants a physical right hand shot who can skate and he actually brings a little value. If not, I will split his salary in the same decreasing fashion as Hayes but if there are zero takers. I pay him to not play for my team. 

 

**** Ryan Ellis.  I trade him for nothing, or buy him out. (it's not my money, that's for you SC,) I do think buying out all these guys would amount to the equivalent of one dead money player @ around >6.8 aav.  But if my scouting department gets the picks right, I can play kids who are team controlled until that player becomes Nick Delauriers instead of Travis Sanheim. 

I love Couturier, but I buy him out too. I ask him to stay around the team in some sort of capacity, skills coach, pro-development coach.... but I'm not going into every season having his availability being a question mark.

 

I try to move JvR at the deadline to recoup some of my draft depth, if he's scoring maybe he fetches a 2nd...if I can't trade him. I let him walk. 

 

Comcast doesn't want to pay attention to the team... well they will when they see they're paying 5 dudes 38 million dollars to not play for the team. 

That ought to either get them to put serious talent and resources toward the team or sell it to some ego maniac like John Montgomery who just wants to shag infield grounders and win. 

The rebuild doesn't have to be 5 years, the team can be competitive in 3 if some things break right, some high picks pan out, some guys near their ceiling. 

I don't trust too many of the existing brass to get a rebuild right, so I Frank Slade the E suite. 

hoo-ah

 

 

Are YOU available to GM?  

[Cheesesteak]

4 hours ago, FD19372 said:

If they...Fletcher...or whoever, gets a second rounder for JVR, they should take it and run. In my opinion, they'll be lucky to get a 3rd.

I keep seeing JVR pop up in threads but I'll be damned if I can remember hearing his name called or seeing him on the ice at all.   granted I have had trouble scraping up any interest in watching this season and when I do it's on in the background

 

 

btw, in bold, i wrote scraping up because I couldn't think of the right word to use and tried to find an alternative...any wordsmiths have a synonym that works better?   I usually am pretty good but got nothing for a word to describe gathering together even a meager amount at a cost or it being difficult to do so.     I bet TropicalFruitGirl will know, she's a smart cookie.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Cheesesteak

[RonJeremy]

6 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Great. Jettison everybody. Trade Hart. Move Provorov. Get rid of TK. Gut the team!! Outstanding.

 

and then what? Begin the search for a goalie who's as good as Hart. Get a D-man with the upside of Provorov. Find a 30-goal scorer like TK...

 

Of course prune the scrubs but don't lose your best players in the process. Identifying who's who is what this year is all about.

 

edit: nothing personal @RonJeremy I know you're looking for answers. I just think if you're going to do a clean sweep then start in the front office that's where the cobwebs are clogging up the process.

 

 No problem , my thoughts on Konecny  and Provy is basically this… both are UFAs in two seasons after this, both will be  near thirty. Why get that close to UFA and a big payday to sign with team that’s doing another rebuild, when you can go to a contender, especially  after you endured  6years of losing already . Now from the Flyers standpoint are you gonna hand out two big long term contracts to a couple of thirty year olds when you are rebuilding?  If you are Chuck Fletcher the answer is yes, if you are a real GM , you realize it’s a stupid thing to do . Haven’t we learned anything from giving long term contracts to older players?   Oth of these guys will be around thirty two by the time we are decent.You know both players will be 

looking for long term in big $$ for their last contract. If you trade them now you can get some good returns for the future. I would not trade them  just for picks, I would want top can’t miss prospects for these guys.

[RonJeremy]

14 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

That's not how you do it. You tear it down but you don't gut it of everything and leave nothing. Sabres did that when they tanked for McDavid (got Eichel) and it resulted in them sucking for a decade and maybe only now rebuilding. If you have a franchise goalie in this league you lock him up for 8 years, not trade him away. He's the cornerstone. Konecny and DeAngelo aren't going anywhere either. They will be re-signed. Provy not so sure. JVR is a dead man walking. 

We have York and Attard knocking on the door, DeAngelo is solid but in the long run for a rebuild, you don’t need him. Konecny is 2.5 years away from UFA and a huge payday. Would you stay for second rebuild after six years of losing  or would you sign with a contender? Why would a rebuilding team give a 29 year old UFA a seven year eight million dollar contract ? We haven’t learned from Hayes, Coots and Ellis.  Y the time the team is decent , Konecny will be washed up.