radoran Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 27 minutes ago, tucson83 said: really shows on how much you value defense because that lineup was disaster in 2021 but because of just money, it's ok to see our goalies get lid up 5 goals at game and think that's going to win games. You've watched this season, right? Is it markedly better than 2020-2021? Because they've spent a TON of capital to get to pretty much the same place. Almost like they didn't need to spend anything at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Is it markedly better than 2020-2021? It certainly is. But unless you've been watching you'll never know bc the numbers don't reflect "markedly better" and never will until the Flyers have better players. But the eye test reveals without a shadow of a doubt where the team has done a complete 180 this year. It's all the stuff that's easy to overlook but is nevertheless essential to (re)building a team...pride, accountability etc. You watched 20-21 do you remember how apathetic they were night in night out? They couldn't sink any lower attitude-wise. Depending on what management does this off-season we'll look back on 2022-23 as either Season One of the rebuild or just another season of Clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 35 minutes ago, tucson83 said: really shows on how much you value defense because that lineup was disaster in 2021 but because of just money, it's ok to see our goalies get lid up 5 goals at game and think that's going to win games. you know the old saying you give someone enough rope they will eventually hang themself ....you are getting mighty close. I'm really enjoying you proving to everyone on this forum your lack of hockey knowledge ....... As I mentioned to you in an earlier post, which I seriously doubt you read, I posted this gem.... let me refresh your memory. Out of all NHL defensemen with at least 200 minutes played at even strength this season, DeAngelo ranks third-worst in the league in terms of impact on his team’s ability to prevent expected goals, ahead of only John Klingberg and Ian Mitchell. Only six blueliners have been on the ice for more high-danger chances against per 60 minutes. By all public statistical models and measures, DeAngelo has been one of the worst defensemen in the NHL this season. What part of this this statement do you fail to comprehend? In addition .... quote from Coach Tortella: “We know what Tony is. ......his defensive liability is something we need to work at,” Tortorella said Thursday. ... But it is what it is.” I love how you keep moving the goalposts back........ I will admit ...you do keep me entertained ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: You watched 20-21 do you remember how apathetic they were night in night out? They couldn't sink any lower attitude-wise. I do remember the #legendary leadership of the time, yes. In terms of results? Fine. They're slightly less disastrous. Do you think that's because they spent all the draft capital to turn Gostisbehere and Hagg into Ristolainen and DeAngelo? Because I don't. I think they finally left behind the #legendary leadership and hired an outside company to choose a new coach. But I'd still rather have the draft picks over the different players doing basically the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: really shows on how much you value defense because that lineup was disaster in 2021 but because of just money, it's ok to see our goalies get lid up 5 goals at game and think that's going to win games. The only part of defence in Tony Deangelo is in the name of his position...he may well be the worst defensive defenceman, since...well, since Keith Yandle. Chuck sure can pick them. And Ristolainen may well be the dumbest player I've seen in years. Are you trolling or are you seriously thinking these guys are good? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 In addition I might add that DeAngelos turnovers are egregious at times, he gets caught flat-footed several times a game – as we witnessed several weeks ago against Chicago, Winnipeg, and Los Angeles – and sometimes he gets a little too “cute” with his passes and turns it over in his own zone. Therefore leaving Hart out to dry. Risto is what he is now ..... a very overpaid 3rd pair defenseman. Certainly not worth what we gave up nor what we are paying him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Certainly not worth what we gave up nor what we are paying him. But irreplaceable....since there's no way in hell of getting rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: since there's no way in hell of getting rid of him. sadly ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 23 hours ago, Mad Dog said: And how did de Angelo and Risto help correct the defensive woes? how did ghost and hagg correct our defense in 2021? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, tucson83 said: how did ghost and hagg correct our defense in 2021? They didn't...they were the same, but over $5 million and a fistful of draft picks cheaper, including a 1st and several 2nds. That all matters whether you think it does or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Just now, flyercanuck said: They didn't...they were the same, but over $5 million and a fistful of draft picks cheaper, including a 1st and several 2nds. That all matters whether you think it does or not. I figure that if you make this point, let's say, 1000 more times, ol' Tucson may start to understand your point. Godspeed. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, tucson83 said: how did ghost and hagg correct our defense in 2021? So, you agree that they've done nothing for all draft capital they spent to get them. Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 32 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I figure that if you make this point, let's say, 1000 more times, ol' Tucson may start to understand your point. Godspeed. Good luck .... He still does not respond to the questions I asked him ....he keeps moving the goal posts back. I believe, as @flyercanuck mentioned, he is now arguing for the sake of arguing ......he has no answers nor does he have a well thought out rebuttal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 41 minutes ago, pilldoc said: I believe, as @flyercanuck mentioned, he is now arguing for the sake of arguing pretty sure that was me (although FC may have also). I need credit wherever I can get it. Might be the only valid point I've made in a while 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, CoachX said: pretty sure that was me (although FC may have also). I need credit wherever I can get it. Might be the only valid point I've made in a while I credit you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I credit you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aziz Posted March 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, CoachX said: im trying really hard to see Tucson' s point, but I cant get my head that far up my a$$ fwiw, I'm pretty sure he is just trolling. Having a different opinion is one thing, even one nobody else agrees with. For example, I think the NHL should do what MLB did a long time ago, and for similar reasons - ban all sticks not made from straight up old school wood. I don't think there is a person in the world that would agree with me, but there it is. I also think all penalty shots should include a back checker that starts at the far zone's faceoff dots, it'd stop the stupid 2mph dipsy doodle crap that serves to decide games, would recreate an actual in-game pressure situation. And again, I doubt more than 2 people agree with me. I have my reasons, though, and they are valid. Not valid enough to change minds, fine, but valid nevertheless. Tucson isn't saying anything valid, he isn't making an actual argument. He's just saying everything is fine and things should keep going as they are and all will be well. Which is clearly insane. I don't see an objective and defensible perspective that says Fletcher has done anything but terrible damage to the team and its near future, and Tucson hasn't tried to describe or defend a perspective like that, only to endorse it. Tucson is saying he's been fine and no worries, but at no point says why, or why what we see as disastrous moves were not disastrous. He's just saying, "nope, ur wrong". Feed as you will, but there's no there there. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, aziz said: Having a different opinion is one thing, even one nobody else agrees with. For example, I think the NHL should do what MLB did a long time ago, and for similar reasons - ban all sticks not made from straight up old school wood. I don't think there is a person in the world that would agree with me, but there it is. Actually, it wouldn't bother me one little bit if they did. And I hate thee shootout so any change to it would be welcome. In fact I would be ok with letting the goalie bum rush the shooter and deliver a body check, ala Mr. Hextall (I wonder if Chelios still has nightmares?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, aziz said: fwiw, I'm pretty sure he is just trolling. Having a different opinion is one thing, even one nobody else agrees with. For example, I think the NHL should do what MLB did a long time ago, and for similar reasons - ban all sticks not made from straight up old school wood. I don't think there is a person in the world that would agree with me, but there it is. I also think all penalty shots should include a back checker that starts at the far zone's faceoff dots, it'd stop the stupid 2mph dipsy doodle crap that serves to decide games, would recreate an actual in-game pressure situation. And again, I doubt more than 2 people agree with me. I have my reasons, though, and they are valid. Not valid enough to change minds, fine, but valid nevertheless. Unless the goalies cut back on basically wearing a mattress I don't think composite sticks are going anywhere. But I like your backchecker idea (if we HAVE to have shootouts, which apparently Uncle Gary says we do...I was always fine with ties in the regular season) and since they like hyping up crap, give the backchecker a flamethrower. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, CoachX said: same...and these emojis suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Troll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, CoachX said: Actually, it wouldn't bother me one little bit if they did. And I hate thee shootout so any change to it would be welcome. In fact I would be ok with letting the goalie bum rush the shooter and deliver a body check, ala Mr. Hextall (I wonder if Chelios still has nightmares?) They'd probably call it a trip or charging or something, like when Hasek did that to Gaborik (albeit a normal course breakaway, not a PS). Just get a guy starting 60 feet behind the shooter try to chase him down. If the shooter keeps a reasonable pace, it wouldn't change the breakaway much, but it would make him get to the point. I find exactly zero interesting with a Kane-style approach, coming in at a snail's pace, making literally 40 "moves", because he has -also literally- as much time as he wants, so long as he keeps moving forward. It's stupid. Having that guy coming changes the PS into a thing with actual game pressure. Get it done, make your one or two moves and take the shot. Edit: also: no, Chelios doesn't have nightmares. He turtled up, and the whole situation broke Hextall's career. He was suspended the first 12 games of the next season, came back out of game shape, and tore his groin. Which is an injury that never fully heals. I hate Chelios, and I am pretty sure he smiles really big when he thinks back to that. Both putting Propp in the hospital and tanking what could have been an impressive goaltending career. Edited March 7, 2023 by aziz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 hours ago, tucson83 said: how did ghost and hagg correct our defense in 2021? Tucson83, are you the chucktard himself, typing away under an alias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 20 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Unless the goalies cut back on basically wearing a mattress I don't think composite sticks are going anywhere. My theory is the composite sticks feed the current goaltending meta, both in terms of technique and equipment. Shot velocity would drop significantly with wooden sticks, you could then safely go after the silly chest and pant armor goalies are wearing these days. And getting rid of the crazy-fast releases composites allow would have goalies back on their skates, rather than being trained to play almost exclusively from their knees as we see today. AND it would let smaller goalies maybe have a shot. I think offensive zone play in general, both from the attacking and defending perspective, would become far more interesting if there was something more deliberate going on than the spring-steel effect of modern sticks. Related...I really wonder if Bedard would be nearly as effective with an old Sherwood. He has a ton of gifts, but his wrist/snap shot is a big one, and it relies on REALLY REALLY heavily loading his stick before release. I couldn't believe how much load those sticks would take when I first saw him. Doing that with wood would just break the stick. Anyway, won't happen. But one can dream. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I think there should be a thread devoted to oir forum members recommending NHL rule changes, as inspired by @aziz The more outrageous, the better 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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