JVR

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Not anymore.

 

He's a UFA.

 

Bill Guerin on line one?

 

 

Fine.
Guerin signs him, then flips him to the Penguins on a sign and trade for a 5th round selection.

Is honor satsified?  

[FD19372]

Just now, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

His decision making at times is maddening, and he turns the puck over at the worst possible times on occasion, and he certainly is NOT a 6M AAV player,

This exactly why we DON'T need him. We have enough of these type of players defensively. We don't need nor should want more, at THAT price or more, which Dumba will most certainly want in his next contract. What your stating, just further intrenches me in the belief, that he's not what the Flyers need defensively.

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

As maligned as Dumba can be in Minnesota, I'd prefer him to JVR.
Dumba, if deployed correctly, still has good wheels, a nice shot, not afraid to hit, and DOES have, believe it or not, some decent offensive instincts.

His decision making at times is maddening, and he turns the puck over at the worst possible times on occasion, and he certainly is NOT a 6M AAV player, but at the right price, and playing him under the right conditions, he isn't too bad to have, despite what some Wild fans may have you believe.

JVR?
I really don't know what role he can play on any team at this point, unless its a team that is stacked otherwise, and has him as a middle six winger in hopes he can just chip in stuff from there, and if he doesn't, no big deal.
Neither the Wild nor the Flyers can afford that "JVR Luxury" however.  

But, he is YOUR problem first....Minnesota doesn't need to inherit him from you.  

Hey, we inherited Fletcher. It's your turn to inherit now. Embrace JVR.

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

Hey, we inherited Fletcher. It's your turn to inherit now. Embrace JVR.

We have Holmgren, too. You guys owe us. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

Hey, we inherited Fletcher. It's your turn to inherit now. Embrace JVR.

 

You Flyer fans are going to continue to beat us Wild fans over the head with the Fletcher thing, aren't you?
Aren't YOU!??  

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Yup, there's no way I sign him even for the league minimum.

 

 

I'd bring Lukas Sedlak back before i bring JVR back i don't want him if he plays for free he represents everything that has been bad for this club since 2007 being screwed out of that draft pick is what i will forever associate that bum with. Time to move forever.

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Has anyone seen who has obviously hacked @ruxpin's account?

 

Need a Lexus?

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by ruxpin

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Hey, we inherited Fletcher. It's your turn to inherit now. Embrace JVR.

That's the same as "Embrace the Suck" but with the exact opposite meaning

[GrittyForever]

7 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Wild fan butting in here....

if there is ANY way the Flyers can get JVR to stay on with the team for a vet minimum contract, then I'd say "do it".
Not sure what he can actually DO for the team, but, at least this way, the Minnesota Wild won't get any stupid ideas of "bringing over an experienced vet like JVR" and give him a dumb long term contract in the hopes that, "He can turn things around and play with Kirill Kaprizov".

Ok, ok...just like the Maple Leafs, I will be going now....  

Nah, they have to seriously look at completely fixing the locker room. There can't be any passengers on this team next year. No bad role models. Nobody who doesn't want to be here. If you don't fix the locker room first, it's too hard for the coach to build a new culture. Pretty sure that's what Torts is talking about with his "subtraction" comments. 

Bad players like Risto won't hurt you as much as quitters and slackers will. JVR gone. Hayes has to go. DeAngelo probably has to go. Maybe more. 

[FD19372]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

That's the same as "Embrace the Suck" but with the exact opposite meaning

You sure about that? I'm not.

[flyercanuck]

14 hours ago, FD19372 said:

This exactly why we DON'T need him. We have enough of these type of players defensively. We don't need nor should want more, at THAT price or more, which Dumba will most certainly want in his next contract. What your stating, just further intrenches me in the belief, that he's not what the Flyers need defensively.

 

 

This sounds exactly how Fletcher would decide to bring defenceman into the Flyers. 

 

Everyone else "Ya, that's exactly what we don't need"

 

Fletcher "Get him at all costs'

[mojo1917]

Good thing Fletcher isn't the GM any longer. 

[CoachX]

10 hours ago, FD19372 said:

You sure about that? I'm not.

In this context, "embrace jvr" would mean embracing something that sucks and always will, without you being able to overcome it

 

The term, "Embrace the suck” means that while the current situation sucks, you have to accept it and work toward changing it. It's not about being in-denial, as much as accepting present discomfort for future success. To embrace the suck means to confront things that make you uncomfortable so that you can surmount it

[pilldoc]

JvR is a polarizing figure for sure. Several members on here have named him as their Least Favorite Flyer Ever.

 

I've never been a fan, but he's not even close to my LFFE Billy Tibbets gets that Dishonorable Mention. For me, JvR will always be the "loser point" we got for picking 2nd overall in the Patrick Kane draft, and all these years later is still sticks in my craw, especially since Chicago went on to win 3 Cups, and now are getting a presumed generational talent in Connor Bedard.

 

He'll also be a guy (rightly or wrongly) who I have always felt did not use his size and strength enough to create time and space in the offensive zone for both himself and his teammates. I've always felt like he played a lot smaller than he was. Not that I require big players to routinely demolish the opposition (aka Lindros), but I do feel that JvR didnt make full use of the talents he was blessed with. It may be splitting hairs, but I do think there's a difference between playing soft and playing softer than you could or perhaps should.

 

I will always associate JvR with the Flyers mentality of.. "we've got to overpay to get Free Agents because other teams are on in him and thats the cost of doing business". I hate that mentality and believe it is a major contributing factor to why the Flyers are where they are right now. If someone is going to overpay for a player, make sure that someone is NOT you.

 

Many on here were disappointed when he wasn't moved at the deadline, but that's not because of him. By all accounts he is a standup guy and has had a decent career overall. There were reasons for the leaguewide lack of interest.

 

First, there was the second half scoring slump. While teams do evaluate players at the trade deadline based on full-season and career results, there’s a reason why they send scouts to watch potential targets in the weeks leading up to the big day. They want to see if said player matches the numbers via an experienced eye test. Van Riemsdyk, to be blunt, was thoroughly ineffective in February

 

Second, his power play production completely cratered. Van Riemsdyk’s reputation has long been that of a depth scorer at five-on-five who does his real damage as one of the premier net-front power play presences in the league. Suddenly, that element of his profile was missing, leaving just a decent depth scorer with a $7 million cap hit. 

 

Third, there were stylistic concerns on the part of a number of buyers — namely, van Riemsdyk’s lack of skating speed. JvR has never been especially quick, but as he’s entered his 30s, van Riemsdyk has lost a step even beyond that. Could JvR even play a more fast-paced style and keep up? It was a real fear that kept him off a number of teams’ lists.

 

Finally his massive cap hit .... enough said about that. Team were not going to pay that type of money.

 

In a nutshell I suppose he's a symbol of the combination of misfortune and ineptitude that has colored the Flyers organization in recent memory. Its not totally all his fault, but that's how I see it.

[radoran]

10 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

I will always associate JvR with the Flyers mentality of.. "we've got to overpay to get Free Agents because other teams are on in him and thats the cost of doing business".

 

I don't think they needed to overpay for JVR and I don't think they really did.

 

The Flyers mentality I see at work in that move was the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" spectre.

 

The Flyers - definitely a playoff team - wanted to add a top FA to bolster their next season's push for the playoffs.

 

Johnny Pajamas wouldn't come here (and, hey, let's just say thank God for that, eh?).

 

JVR, legitimately, for better or worse, was the #2 best available UFA on the market that year. 30-goal scorer and had the advantage of being a former Flyer(!)

 

Boom, five year deal.

 

It's back to the question of making the right move at the right time, not making a move because you feel you have to make the move.

 

JVR was the wrong move, but the move they believed they "had to make" at the time.

 

It's one of many things Hextall failed at. I initially wondered if the JVR move it was pressure from up top to "make the playoffs" but his track record in Pittsburgh wasn't much better.

[pilldoc]

23 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I don't think they needed to overpay for JVR and I don't think they really did.

 

The Flyers mentality I see at work in that move was the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" spectre.

 

The Flyers - definitely a playoff team - wanted to add a top FA to bolster their next season's push for the playoffs.

 

Johnny Pajamas wouldn't come here (and, hey, let's just say thank God for that, eh?).

 

JVR, legitimately, for better or worse, was the #2 best available UFA on the market that year. 30-goal scorer and had the advantage of being a former Flyer(!)

 

Boom, five year deal.

 

It's back to the question of making the right move at the right time, not making a move because you feel you have to make the move.

 

JVR was the wrong move, but the move they believed they "had to make" at the time.

 

It's one of many things Hextall failed at. I initially wondered if the JVR move it was pressure from up top to "make the playoffs" but his track record in Pittsburgh wasn't much better.

 

You are not wrong here ......  I was never a fan of the Flyers bringing him back.  As you said, I get why they did it .......

 

I guess looking back you can say they overpaid ..... as they say hindsight is 20/20 ... Over the course of his 5 years here JVR  averaged 24.5 goals and 24.5 assists (49 points) per 82 games played. That’s perfectly acceptable middle-of-the-lineup production — but IMO, it’s not worth $7 million per year.   Again hindsight being 20/20.  I always thought what JVR produced in Toronto was fools gold.

 

In addition it goes beyond the numbers. JVR never really delivered a true start-to-finish, no great season since returning to the club.  Look at it this way:

 

 

But isn't this the story of JVR ..... just enough good to keep around and give him support  BUT .... enough flaws to keep observers of the team perpetually frustrated with the reality of him as a player.

 

Again looking at his contract in hindsight that is why I said he was overpaid.

[radoran]

24 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Again looking at his contract in hindsight that is why I said he was overpaid.

 

Not disagreeing on the production, but $7M wasn't terrible at the time.

 

I'd give you an Anders Lee as a comparable, signed a $7M deal the next year coming off 34-, 40-, and 28-goal seasons.

 

It wasn't a good idea at the time, but it wasn't an outrageous number.

 

Lee went on for 60 goals over the next three years. JVR put up... 60 goals over the same span.

 

I think we'd all rather have had Lee, but since they "had to" sign JVR the year before, they weren't going to be in the market (Lee signed on July 1 so he "hit the market").

 

Then they "had to" sign Hayes and they "had to" trade for Ristolainen and they "had to" trade for TDA and they "had to..."