Flyers Report Card - Coaches / Front Office (What would you give them?)

[pilldoc]

Again from Charle O'connor .....

 

Coaching staff (B-)

 

It wasn’t all good or all bad with the first-year Flyers’ coaching staff. It was a little bit of both.

 

First, we’ll start with the good. Tortorella and company successfully revitalized Travis Konecny, unlocked Owen Tippett, encouraged Noah Cates and found a solid balance between positive and negative reinforcement to get big year-over-year improvements out of York and Morgan Frost. Shaw worked wonders with Ristolainen and Seeler, while also turning the team’s penalty kill into one of the league’s most dangerous short-handed goal threats. As for Tortorella’s overarching coaching strategies, they may not have led to a playoff berth, but certainly had the team playing with far more energy and effort than they showed the previous two seasons. The Flyers weren’t winning a lot of games. But they were no longer regularly embarrassing the fans. That was an important step in terms of culture-building, and also preventing the fan base from completely losing its collective mind.

 

Now, the bad. Not all of the young players were successfully developed — Joel Farabee, Wade Allison and Tanner Laczynski struggled to take steps forward. Tortorella clashed with Kevin Hayes and struggled to connect with Sanheim, two of the club’s highest-paid players. Provorov had his third consecutive underwhelming season. The Flyers still finished dead last in the NHL in power play efficiency, and despite the major talent deficiencies on the roster, that doesn’t reflect well upon Rocky Thompson, the architect of the unit. As for Shaw’s PK, it may have finished third in the league in short-handed goals (11) but also ranked 26th in goal prevention efficiency. There’s still a lot of work to be done in that regard as well.

 

On the whole, Tortorella and his group got about as much out of the talent on hand as possible, and they should be commended for that. But Tortorella’s approach wasn’t for everyone, and it remains to be seen whether it ends up weeding out overrated players or leading the front office to “give up” on guys who end up exceling elsewhere. There were certainly moments — the Sanheim scratching in Calgary specifically — when Tortorella seemed to cross the line from “tough” into “cruel,” and raised concerns about his ability to retain command of the locker room long-term. So far, Tortorella’s approach seems to be working in terms of getting the Flyers to play harder and show more commitment to defense. But I wonder if the approach will start to have diminishing returns if the Flyers’ rebuild lasts more than just a couple of years.

 

and now time for the powder keg ........

 

Front Office (F) 

(Fletch has been crucified on here for good reason ...lets have one more go around) 

 

Hoo boy. Time to evaluate the final year of Fletcher’s tenure.

 

Let’s do a quick rundown of Fletcher’s major decisions in the summer of 2022.

• Drafted Cutter Gauthier with the No. 5 pick.
• Traded second-, third- and fourth-round picks for Tony DeAngelo and signed him to a two-year, $10 million contract.
• Bought out Oskar Lindblom.
• Signed Justin Braun to a one-year, $1 million contract.
• Signed Nicolas Deslauriers to a four-year, $7.5 million contract.

The Gauthier pick is looking solid, though David Jiricek’s stellar first season in North America raises legitimate questions as to whether he would have been the better selection.

 

The DeAngelo trade proved to be a dramatic overpay, both in terms of assets and contract.

 

The Lindblom buyout, while cold and calculating, probably was the right move — Lindblom scored just 15 points with the Sharks.

 

The Braun contract was cheap and didn’t move the needle.

 

And as for Deslauriers, it was an overpay for what he brought on the ice, but perhaps it would have been accepted more easily had Fletcher explained that he was basically coming to be the protect-the-kids policeman for a rebuilding team.

 

The problem? Fletcher never admitted the Flyers were rebuilding. And that really was the big problem.

It wasn’t that all of the Flyers’ recent moves were bad (though a lot of them were). It was that the front office’s overarching plan lacked coherence. Had the Flyers formally announced they were rebuilding, passing on Johnny Gaudreau and overpaying in terms of years for Deslauriers would have been easier to sell last summer. But if they were indeed rebuilding, why expend significant draft capital to add DeAngelo? Why re-sign Ristolainen and Sanheim to massive extensions rather than trade them for future assets that might better fit a long-term timeline? The front office’s “plan” in 2022 and 2023 screamed of trying to do two things at once, and doing neither well.

 

The in-season moves by Fletcher didn’t really work out either. The Sanheim extension — announced just before puck drop for Game 1 — has not aged well at all. Claiming Kieffer Bellows just before the similar and superior Eeli Tolvanen hit the wire — which left them no contract space to add him and little lineup flexibility to test him out even if they had — was in retrospect a big swing-and-miss. Their one strong waiver claim (Lukas Sedlak) quit the NHL rather than continue to play for the Flyers. And the trade deadline was, to be blunt, a major disappointment, as Fletcher proved unable to get any draft picks back for James van Riemsdyk and Braun, accumulating only a 2023 sixth and a 2024 fifth as a seller.

Aside from maybe the Tortorella hiring — and that’s still up for debate — there really wasn’t a single clear-cut win from the Flyers front office over the past 12 months. Yet there were a ton of losses — moves that will haunt the team’s cap situation for years to come.

 

Yes, the Flyers have now admitted they’re rebuilding. But it was a decision that came a year too late.

 

Go ahead ...have at it ......  Time to roast Fletch one last time ......

Edited April 22, 2023 by pilldoc

[pilldoc]

This season is so forgettable I would never have remembered they had that Sedlak guy. The fact he quit the NHL so he didn’t have to play for the Flyers is a perfect summation of the season.

 

Raise your hands on how many of you would have preferred Tolvanen to Bellows .......

 

Sadly Flyers will be paying for Fletcher’s mistakes for years to come.  I still believe Dave Scott and the 3 amigos were a major part of the "don't say rebuild" mindset, and the strategy to try and sneak into the Playoffs.

 

Finally I will add this .....  As I have been saying for many years now that the Flyers developing record is really putrid enough said...

[mojo1917]

I gave Tortorella a B.

I thought there was way more good than bad from him.

I can think of 2 instances where his detractors can point to where I will agree with them.

I didn't like not talking to the press after getting smoked in Columbus.

Even though he deserved it, I thought scratching Sanhiem in Calgary was cruel and cost John with the rest of the team for a minute.

 

Other than that though, this team was competitive most nights, they were hard to play against and I think they were accountable to one another.

To me that's a win, turning the culture around was never going to be an easy lift, I think he got things off to a good start.

I'm hoping he can build on this year's process.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

This season is so forgettable I would never have remembered they had that Sedlak guy.

 

The fact that i remember him really sticking out in a good way is how sad this roster/team was playing at the time.

 

But now is the fact they have no room for a guy like him at his age in the bottom 6 the need young kids playing fighting for a spot.

 

In fact time is running out soon maybe on Tanner and Wade soon too let's be honest they will be both be 26 and might be soon trade bait too.

 

This next season will be pivotal for them both. I want to give Foerster (21), Desnoyers (21) and Lycksell (23)more playing time in the NHL by the end of next season.

[pilldoc]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I want to give Foerster (21), Desnoyers (21)

 

Speaking of Desnoyers ... I owe you an apology.  I looked at his Stats with LHV (23G, 21A, 44pt in 65 games).  If you project that out for 82 games that comes to  29G, 26A for 55 PTS.  Hoping he keeps projecting up he could easily become a 65-75 PT 2nd line player.

 

I know I was advocating for Debrincat who has already proven himself at the NHL level.  I still think he would be a good fit, however, I understand his contract is something the Flyers will not want to take on.  I see Debrincat a consistent 70-80 PT player hovering between the 1st and and 2nd line.

 

"IF" Desnoyers continues to grow and develop, as I mentioned above, I "could possibly" see him as a solid 2nd line player hovering around 70 pts per year..... AND ... at 4 years younger and cheaper contract.

 

This is NOT to say Desnoyers is equal to Debrincat.  I am not.  What I am saying is I see and understand your POV.  I was a bit bullish on Debrincat because I like him as a player and as I mentioned before, I had hoped he would have been drafted by the Flyers.

 

 

But no...we drafted Laberge who is no longer in the organization.  Another swing and miss pick ...(sigh)

 

Anyway hope no hard feelings .......

[Samifan]

Front office gets an F, because after all Fletcher starts with F!

 

For coaching I only considered Torts and I gave him an A. I gave Torts an A for finally holding everyone accountable and saying the quiet parts out loud this year!

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

Speaking of Desnoyers ... I owe you an apology.  I looked at his Stats with LHV (23G, 21A, 44pt in 65 games).  If you project that out for 82 games that comes to  29G, 26A for 55 PTS.  Hoping he keeps projecting up he could easily become a 65-75 PT 2nd line player.

 

Exactly just broke the record for a rookie in goal scoring for the Phantoms and he isn't "a goaler scorer" he is suppose to be a play maker which is really good that he can find the net because no one cares about all that razzle dazzle with the puck if it doesn't translate to goals (or at least to me).

 

I think once you get out of cap hell and remove the Atkinson's and Ellis' contracts (Not even sure what becomes of Ellis's contract.

 

But by 24-25 things should be a little clearer (fingers crossed we'll know further after we see Danny's first moves).

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Samifan said:

Front office gets an F, because after all Fletcher starts with F!

 

For coaching I only considered Torts and I gave him an A. I gave Torts an A for finally holding everyone accountable and saying the quiet parts out loud this year!

 

I gave it an F too and in that it doesn't involve Danny yet.

 

But from here on out yes he is being judged and i loved him as a player but that doesn't mean i will be biased when it comes to judging separately as a GM.

 

The most impressive playoffs i ever seen (besides Big E's in 1996-97) was Danny's in 2010 will buy him no leeway in my decision of him doing a good job.

 

I just work it works i am tired of this endless cycle it seems...

[GrittyForever]

Speaking of front office, I guess this would definitely not be a continuation of the old boys club.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Speaking of front office, I guess this would definitely not be a continuation of the old boys club.

 

 

 

If they brought her in cause she was doing an outstanding job, that's great. My guess is they're "looking" at her because shes a she. Or because the Flyers still don't have a clue. See, we've changed, it's not my best friends brothers nephew we're hiring to run our team...

 

Vancouver is one of the few teams in as bad or worse shape as the Flyers. They have one of the worst farm systems in the league. All the other teams at the bottom of prospect pools traded picks/prospects to win cups. Vancouver has just been bad. What's not to like?

Edited April 23, 2023 by flyercanuck

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

If they brought her in cause she was doing an outstanding job, that's great. My guess is they're "looking" at her because shes a she. Or because the Flyers still don't have a clue. See, we've changed, it's not my best friends brothers nephew we're hiring to run our team...

 

Vancouver is one of the few teams in as bad or worse shape as the Flyers. They have one of the worst farm systems in the league. All the other teams at the bottom of prospect pools traded picks/prospects to win cups. Vancouver has just been bad. What's not to like?

I wouldn't doubt that they are looking at her because she's a she and it might also be like an unofficial Rooney Rule type thing only for women. "Look, we interviewed a woman, we're not sexist" so we will see if it's a nothing interview or a hire in time I guess. 

 

As for Vancouver, idk if she's doing a good job or not but she can't be faulted with the Vancouver mess. She wasn't the creator of it. Saying it's her fault would be like blaming Briere for our problems now. 

 

But maybe they plan to change the entire decision making process. Maybe GM gets full say on all the hockey moves and he just works with Torts for input. Maybe above that is all marketing and business stuff. Also though, no reason to think a woman couldn't do the job. Maybe we shift to analytics and room full of computer nerds who will drool all over themselves and do whatever the pretty girl says. Whatever happens, I'd say change is good. 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

I wouldn't doubt that they are looking at her because she's a she and it might also be like an unofficial Rooney Rule type thing only for women. "Look, we interviewed a woman, we're not sexist" so we will see if it's a nothing interview or a hire in time I guess. 

 

As for Vancouver, idk if she's doing a good job or not but she can't be faulted with the Vancouver mess. She wasn't the creator of it. Saying it's her fault would be like blaming Briere for our problems now. 

 

But maybe they plan to change the entire decision making process. Maybe GM gets full say on all the hockey moves and he just works with Torts for input. Maybe above that is all marketing and business stuff. Also though, no reason to think a woman couldn't do the job. Maybe we shift to analytics and room full of computer nerds who will drool all over themselves and do whatever the pretty girl says. Whatever happens, I'd say change is good. 

 

Anything...anything is better than Fletcher.

[OccamsRazor]

10 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

My guess is they're "looking" at her because shes a she. Or because the Flyers still don't have a clue. See, we've changed, it's not my best friends brothers nephew we're hiring to run our team...

 

 

I hope not...it should always the best person for the job regardless of skin color and gender just the person...in your mind who you think - not saying how it ends up.

 

But after what we have seen this year nothing shocks me anymore...

[GrittyForever]

Front Office I see a D and an F option. Where is "a kick in the nuts"? 

[GratefulFlyers]

I give the front office an A. They fired Fletcher. Add to that the Scott resignation. Then they name Briere as interim GM and the first thing he says is that the senior advisors won’t necessarily be his advisors. Wow. If that doesn't signal a major shakeup in the front office then nothing does. 
 

Removing Fletcher was a necessary first step but that alone wouldn’tve meant much. It’s the news that came out of the front office after Fletcher’s firing that rates an A. Now it’s up to Briere and his team to keep it.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I give the front office an A. They fired Fletcher. Add to that the Scott resignation. Then they name Briere as interim GM and the first thing he says is that the senior advisors won’t necessarily be his advisors. Wow. If that doesn't signal a major shakeup in the front office then nothing does. 
 

Removing Fletcher was a necessary first step but that alone wouldn’tve meant much. It’s the news that came out of the front office after Fletcher’s firing that rates an A. Now it’s up to Briere and his team to keep it.

 

You're rating them on the season, not on the last few weeks. They fired Fletcher because fans weren't showing up and were starting to revolt. Fletcher should have been fired last year. Or the year before. He should never have been hired. That's ALL on the front office, of which he was a huge part.

 

Briere hasn't done a thing other than get hired. Which is leaps and bounds better than the negative effect Chuck had on the team. 

 

I'd give them a Z if there was one. -Z.

Edited April 24, 2023 by flyercanuck

[CoachX]

I only watched two games this season, one by accident. I'm not in a position to really comment on this, but I will anyway. It was as bad as I thought, so I made the right choice. Torts is a good coach, and hopefully will remain to orchestrate the rebuild. Everyone else sucks (minus a few select young players)

[GratefulFlyers]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

You're rating them on the season, not on the last few weeks.

 

Yes and the season was a success because of the last few weeks. Everything about the Flyers now hinges on what the front office did in the final month and so what? What does it matter what came before as long as it's corrected now? Yes of course CF never should've been hired...fired last year etc. None of that takes away from the fact that he is now gone goodbye. Credit the fans credit the man in the moon the point is

 

 

And Briere did way more than simply get hired. Did you miss what he said when they asked him what role the senior advisors would have? His reply ranks an A+++. He's the first GM to say anything close to what he said about the Holy Anointed Ones. Personally I'm psyched to see what happens next because I truly believe we're in a new era now...an actual rebuild...it may not end well but it will be different.

 

 

 

 

 

[RonJeremy]

On 4/23/2023 at 8:19 AM, flyercanuck said:

 

If they brought her in cause she was doing an outstanding job, that's great. My guess is they're "looking" at her because shes a she. Or because the Flyers still don't have a clue. See, we've changed, it's not my best friends brothers nephew we're hiring to run our team...

 

Vancouver is one of the few teams in as bad or worse shape as the Flyers. They have one of the worst farm systems in the league. All the other teams at the bottom of prospect pools traded picks/prospects to win cups. Vancouver has just been bad. What's not to like?

 

[flyercanuck]

41 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Yes and the season was a success because of the last few weeks. Everything about the Flyers now hinges on what the front office did in the final month and so what? What does it matter what came before as long as it's corrected now? Yes of course CF never should've been hired...fired last year etc. None of that takes away from the fact that he is now gone goodbye. Credit the fans credit the man in the moon the point is

 

 

And Briere did way more than simply get hired. Did you miss what he said when they asked him what role the senior advisors would have? His reply ranks an A+++. He's the first GM to say anything close to what he said about the Holy Anointed Ones. Personally I'm psyched to see what happens next because I truly believe we're in a new era now...an actual rebuild...it may not end well but it will be different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody, and I mean NO BODY is happier than me Fletcher is fired.

 

I wanted him fired the moment he was hired. 

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Yes and the season was a success because of the last few weeks. Everything about the Flyers now hinges on what the front office did in the final month and so what? What does it matter what came before as long as it's corrected now? Yes of course CF never should've been hired...fired last year etc. None of that takes away from the fact that he is now gone goodbye. Credit the fans credit the man in the moon the point is

 

 

And Briere did way more than simply get hired. Did you miss what he said when they asked him what role the senior advisors would have? His reply ranks an A+++. He's the first GM to say anything close to what he said about the Holy Anointed Ones. Personally I'm psyched to see what happens next because I truly believe we're in a new era now...an actual rebuild...it may not end well but it will be different.

 

 

 

 

 

I would have loved to have you for a teacher in high school .  Fail every test for four years, get a D on your final one question pop quiz, graduate with honors.

[JR Ewing]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:19 AM, flyercanuck said:

 

If they brought her in cause she was doing an outstanding job, that's great. My guess is they're "looking" at her because shes a she. Or because the Flyers still don't have a clue. See, we've changed, it's not my best friends brothers nephew we're hiring to run our team...

 

Vancouver is one of the few teams in as bad or worse shape as the Flyers. They have one of the worst farm systems in the league. All the other teams at the bottom of prospect pools traded picks/prospects to win cups. Vancouver has just been bad. What's not to like?

 

I'd be surprised if she's just a diversity interview. She comes from a hockey background as both a player and an agent, and has degrees in finance and law. The Canucks situation wouldn't be on her, as she only became Assistant GM in Vancouver just over a year ago. For all we know, she wants out of the clown show, as Francesco Aquilini is known to be extremely difficult to work with and for to the extent that even his own children are estranged from him, having outlined years of abuse. He's sort of an infamous and legendary figure in British Columbia... It's quite possible that Castonguay wants out, as it's quite unusual to be interviewing for another position so soon after signing.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by JR Ewing

[GratefulFlyers]

18 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

I would have loved to have you for a teacher in high school .  Fail every test for four years, get a D on your final one question pop quiz, graduate with honors.

I look at it this way if a guy is trailing the whole race and then blows everybody away in the home stretch and wins, what’s the takeaway? Right, exactly, congratulations on the win!

[CoachX]

20 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Yes and the season was a success because of the last few weeks

this season was a lot of things, success is not one of them

[CoachX]

20 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

And Briere did way more than simply get hired.

anyone can say anything. IMO Briere hasn't done a thing yet. Like you though, I will retain optimism. Any change right now is a good change