2023-24 Philadelphia Flyers

[mojo1917]

15 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Yeah the contract is horrible and his back certainly won't hold up for 7 more years.

 

That contract was fair to the player, who took less so the team could sign other players. He had just won a Selke trophy.

I've said this a billion times now. Couturier's game was never speed, it was IQ and slick hands. He learned to use his frame to shield the puck from checkers. 

His is the game that can age gracefully. He's always been slow of foot, so he's learned to compensate in other ways. 

The contract was signed prior to any knowledge of any injury. 

I think the take where he is not worth the deal is hogwash. Especially without the ability to see into the future. 

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to think he will struggle toward the end of the contract after his injury though. 

[RonJeremy]

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

That contract was fair to the player, who took less so the team could sign other players. He had just won a Selke trophy.

I've said this a billion times now. Couturier's game was never speed, it was IQ and slick hands. He learned to use his frame to shield the puck from checkers. 

His is the game that can age gracefully. He's always been slow of foot, so he's learned to compensate in other ways. 

The contract was signed prior to any knowledge of any injury. 

I think the take where he is not worth the deal is hogwash. Especially without the ability to see into the future. 

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to think he will struggle toward the end of the contract after his injury though. 

I agree his game was never skating, but when you are slow to begin with and then lose a step or two due to injury  and age ,you then turn into Vinny Lecavalier all over again. Coots played tough and took a pounding, logged lots of ice time over the years.  The take is, he was 28 the team needed a rebuild, would not admit it and they signed him to a big long contract.  He should have been traded,I said this in many posts prior to re-signing him. Other than a roided up Barry Bonds, no athlete gets better as they get older.  

[SCFlyguy]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I think the take where he is not worth the deal is hogwash. Especially without the ability to see into the future. 

Well, not saying I can see the future, but I wanted to trade him in the offseason or at the deadline the year before he was going to be UFA instead of resigning him.  I said so, many times.  It sure would be nice now to have an extra 1st, 3rd, and prospect in the pipeline.

 

The idea that Couts will make it to the end of his contract without being bought out or traded with salary retention is crazy.

[ruxpin]

21 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Well, not saying I can see the future, but I wanted to trade him in the offseason or at the deadline the year before he was going to be UFA instead of resigning him.  I said so, many times.

Yes, yes you did.   I didn't really agree then.   If I'm being honest, I only agree now due to what's happened since.   But minus the injury I'm not sure.   I think I'm still in the camp of "should have done it SCF's way."

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Yes, yes you did.   I didn't really agree then.   If I'm being honest, I only agree now due to what's happened since.   But minus the injury I'm not sure.   I think I'm still in the camp of "should have done it SCF's way."

 

In my mind it is pivotal when you look back at all the winners...it seems like you have to have your crucial 4 horsemen.

 

Just like the Eagles did/do/have. (i'm pulling this out my ass just sippin my coffee make sh it up).

 

But no really what lead to this is coming off a Super bowl a young team and you still have Kelce, Lane, Brandon Graham and Fletcher Cox.

 

The Flyers need to find their 4 horsemen to get this thing rolling to the Cup.

 

And i'm not going to lie and call Coots a Super star but when i thought they had a chance i envisioned him as one and hey may still have a chance in say 4 years...i hope.

 

He'd be only 34 then so but yeah guess let's just see how this upcoming season goes.

 

But i also understand if they had a buyer he would maybe be moved too.

 

And also unlikely because he is almost like a family member to him.

 

I remember the early video of him playing video games with his sons on the couch.

 

He was like only 19 years old old so Coots going to be able to do what he wants while Danny is in charge. And i get it.

 

But i also am cool with letting him get his money and even LTIR goddamn it Ellis is and he ain't even play but what 4 games for the Flyers.

 

Any way brainstorm over...later.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Well, not saying I can see the future, but I wanted to trade him in the offseason or at the deadline the year before he was going to be UFA instead of resigning him. 

You were an advocate for BITFU before a lot of people. 

I thought the core of Giroux, Voracek, Couturier Provorov and Konecky had some possibilities, especially once Carter Hart showed up and was decent.

credit where do, you weren't down with that. 

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

The idea that Couts will make it to the end of his contract without being bought out or traded with salary retention is crazy.

I don't recall ever saying that.  I did ask;  if he loses as step, who will notice and how can they tell? about 1k times. 

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

I think we need to hope Couts' IQ can make up for losing a gear.  He was my favorite Flyer since his rookie year.

 

I just worry he doesn't actually have any gears to lose

[OccamsRazor]

[Howie58]

I see 23-24 as having three mini-seasons. Opening Day through Black Friday as the experimentation phase with lots of line and D-pair shifts. Then comes relative stability through the trade deadline. Then we might see more shifts thanks to addition by subtraction. All in, 6-8 more points thanks to better offense. 

 

As a loyal fan, I will watch. Expectations are limited. I hope we don't have Forsberg-like lineup issues with Cam and Coots, with 2 games in, a few games out, and so on, with hopes of improving that don't materialize and screw up younger player development. Coots's ability is a big story. Cam is out relatively soon. Coots isn't. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

If Couturier plays well this upcoming season (on pace for 55 - 60 points in a reduced role to start), I can see the Flyers asking him to waive his NMC/NTC and seeing what contenders will offer. The back and other ailments are 100%. The fact he wanted to play in the last 10 games was a testament to that. Good on Briere and Tortorella for telling Couturier there's nothing to play for at that time, but the new medical staff would have never cleared him if he wasn't 100%. 

[Cheesesteak]

On 7/17/2023 at 12:54 PM, CoachX said:

 

As much as most of cannot stand the bobby-bunch and their incompetence over the years, I've never questioned that they want to win. In fact, that desire to win at all cost has blinded them into doing stupid things time and again. I feel like this rebuild has a plan, and finally, i feel like they ALL are on board

 

[OccamsRazor]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:56 AM, RonJeremy said:

He should have been traded

 

Speaking of trading.

 

I pose this question to anyone just for discussion sake...

 

...would Trevor Zegras be worth trading for as a RFA to help expedite the rebuild?

 

Ducks already set at Center and Zegras needing a new contract.

 

Or should we just take the next 5 years slowly and do this?

 

Zegras is only 22.

 

Any ways slow day....

 

[CoachX]

@OccamsRazor

 

any idea what a trade might look like?

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, CoachX said:

@OccamsRazor

 

any idea what a trade might look like?

 

Very good question I'll look around for a similar trade if there is one (may take a minute at work now). 

 

I'd imagine a 1st round pick.

 

A top goalie prospect.

 

And another prospect/winger and go from there.

 

With Troy Terry's arbitration they could use a RW.

 

Flyers are stacked at RW.

 

So Konecny? Or Tippett or if they want younger Samu Tuoamaala?

 

 

Adding or subtracting to make it work?

 

I'll ask other options on it.

[CoachX]

I honestly don't know squat about Zegras

[RonJeremy]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Very good question I'll look around for a similar trade if there is one (may take a minute at work now). 

 

I'd imagine a 1st round pick.

 

A top goalie prospect.

 

And another prospect/winger and go from there.

 

With Troy Terry's arbitration they could use a RW.

 

Flyers are stacked at RW.

 

So Konecny? Or Tippett or if they want younger Samu Tuoamaala?

 

 

Adding or subtracting to make it work?

 

I'll ask other options on it.

In my mind if we unload Hart and Konecny in separate trades, we need to get back a young  center and dman  with first/second line/pair potential plus a pick. Coots is injured and old and won't be a #1 center much longer, , Frost is a potential #2 but right now a #3. We also need a sure thing top pair dman.  So two big weaknesses can be shored up if we can make these trades. Then in the next draft ,we get another top pair dman and we have hugely expedited the rebuild. I wouldn't trade Tippett, Konecny is worth the most , is older and is due a huge contract soon. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Hart and Konecny in separate trades

 

Ok so why not trade them to the Ducks for Zegras?

 

Right?

 

He is 22.

 

Unless you're saying you don't like Zegras then?

[pilldoc]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Speaking of trading.

 

I pose this question to anyone just for discussion sake...

 

...would Trevor Zegras be worth trading for as a RFA to help expedite the rebuild?

 

Ducks already set at Center and Zegras needing a new contract.

 

Ducks are not trading Zegras away.  Like the Flyers, the Ducks are in the middle of rebuild themselves.  Adding Leo Carlsson to a line with Terry and Zegras will give them a potent PP1 and top line in another year or two for years to come.

 

Zegras is a 6 foot center with tremendous hockey IQ and playmaking ability, and is an outstanding passer.  After bulking up in college there is no doubt he will become a legit superstar and #1 Center on the top line.

 

Zegras remains one of the bright spots for a Ducks team that continues to be a work in progress. The ninth overall pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft, he instantly became Anaheim’s top prospect. Last year, he finished second in voting for the Calder Trophy.

 

Zegras is a playmaker and there is already talk withing the Ducks organization to move him to wing with the addition of Carlsson.

 

I love this kid and have him as a Keeper for my FHL team. He is just hitting his stride and netting 85-95 Pts per year is within reach.

 

There is NO way the Ducks are trading him away.  They will find a way to resign this kid.

 

Even if the Duck wanted to trade him to the Flyers...the cost will be high.  IMO its a moot point.

Edited August 2, 2023 by pilldoc

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Even if the Duck wanted to trade him to the Flyers...the cost will be high.  IMO its a moot point.

Define high.

 

I guess you don't cut off your nose to spite your face, but if you are rebuilding, and the guy is THAT good.....

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

There is NO way the Ducks are trading him away.

 

Ok so where does McTavish play then he is a center too? 

 

They going to play him on the wing?

 

Or 3rd line center?

 

And Doc you're old enough to know better than to say "Never"...they have a few holes to fill.

 

So yeah I ain't going to say never even the Great One was traded...

[pilldoc]

Just now, CoachX said:

Define high.

 

I guess you don't cut off your nose to spite your face, but if you are rebuilding, and the guy is THAT good.....

 

Since he was chosen 9th overall and his breakout threshold will happen in the middle of this season... it will cost probably at least a 1st and either a 2nd/3rd rounder and at least 2 of the three (Foerster / Brink / Gauthier).   I am leaving out Michkov because had the Ducks wanted him, they would have drafted him.

 

It really is not worth it .....

[pilldoc]

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Ok so where does McTavish play then he is a center too? 

 

Zegras - Carlsson - Terry

Pastikuj (in 2 years) - McTavish - Vatrano

Killorn- Gaucher - xxxx

 

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And Doc you're old enough to know better than to say "Never"...they have a few holes to fill.

 

They do ...just like the Flyers .......  They simply are are not going to trade away younger players who are part of their future.

 

that would be like the Flyers trading away Gauthier / Foerster / Michkov who are obviously a part of the Flyers future. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

So yeah I ain't going to say never even the Great One was traded...

 

touche'   

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by pilldoc

[CoachX]

Whats the deal with that Gauthier kid? didn't he turn down an invitation to camp?

 

doesn't sound positive

[pilldoc]

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Whats the deal with that Gauthier kid? didn't he turn down an invitation to camp?

 

doesn't sound positive

 

https://www.inquirer.com/flyers/cutter-gauthier-flyers-danny-briere-junior-worlds-developmental-camp-20230730.html

 

Even for a player who lives and breathes the game, there’s been too much hockey lately for Cutter Gauthier.

 

That’s why the Flyers’ fifth-overall pick in the 2022 NHL draft was noticeably absent from Flyers development camp at the beginning of July.

 

“Was a little bit too much hockey after Worlds,” Gauthier told NHL.com on Sunday. “Just too much for me. I wanted time with the family. So I figured it was best to stay home.”

 

Initially, there seemed to be some confusion over his absence. On July 3, general manager Danny Brière shared that Gauthier had declined the invitation to camp. However, Brière’s language indicated a lack of communication between parties.

 

Danny Brière said Cutter Gauthier was invited to development but declined to come. They’re assuming it’s because he’s played a lot of hockey recently. It would have been fun, but they’re ok with it. Still trying to figure out why he didn’t want to, but they’re not worried.

— Giana Han (@giana_jade) July 1, 2023

“We’re assuming that it’s because he’s played a lot of hockey with the World Championship, lots of travel,” Brière said. “So we’re not too worried about that.

“We’ll find out a little bit more. We’re trying to figure out why he didn’t want to come, but at this point, I’m not too worried about that.”

In addition to playing his first season of NCAA hockey with Boston College, Gauthier also played in the U20 World Junior Championships at the end of December and the men’s

World Championships in May.

 

In addition to playing his first season of NCAA hockey with Boston College, Gauthier also played in the U20 World Junior Championships at the end of December and the men’s World Championships in May.

There was also speculation that Gauthier did not attend because of a NCAA rule that players have to pay to go to their second development camp. However, neither the Flyers nor Gauthier mentioned costs being a reason. Several other Flyers prospects, including Hunter McDonald (Northeastern) and Devin Kaplan (Boston University) who play NCAA hockey, attended despite it being their second camp.

 

Gauthier returned to the ice Saturday to participate in the World Juniors Showcase, along with former NTDP teammate Kaplan. The two played on the USA White team against Finland while USA Blue, featuring Flyers prospect Cole Knuble, played Sweden.

 

Last couple shifts have been best of the game for Cutter Gauthier (PHI). Forward using his size to create space for himself and great elusiveness to get shots off.

— Adam Kimelman (@NHLAdamK) July 29, 2023

 

Gauthier played on the top power play unit, and while he didn’t score, he still had a strong performance. That follows his impressive showing at the world championships, where he led the team with seven goals as the second-youngest player. He also tied for second-most goals in the tournament and led all players in shots on goal with 57.

 

Sunday, Gauthier cleared up why he didn’t attend development camp and shared that it wasn’t a popular decision. However, it won’t affect his plans to play one more season of college hockey before joining the Flyers.

“After talking to Danny, obviously it wasn’t his favorite thing, but it was best for me,” Gauthier said. “After this year, hopefully we get done pretty late there in April with the group we have, but overall that’s [joining the Flyers] the goal.”

 

Gauthier on skipping Flyers dev camp: "Was a little bit too much hockey after Worlds. Just too much for me. I wanted time with the family. So I figured it was best to stay home. After talking to Danny (Briere, GM), obviously it wasn't his favorite thing, but it was best for me."

— Adam Kimelman (@NHLAdamK) July 30, 2023

 

--------------------------------------

 

I'm not worried about .... some miscommunication about intent. the kid was just plain tired.  Even the pros get a few weeks off in the summer.  I think think this is safely water under the bridge ......

Edited August 2, 2023 by pilldoc

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Speaking of trading.

 

I pose this question to anyone just for discussion sake...

 

...would Trevor Zegras be worth trading for as a RFA to help expedite the rebuild?

 

Ducks already set at Center and Zegras needing a new contract.

 

Or should we just take the next 5 years slowly and do this?

 

Zegras is only 22.

 

Any ways slow day....

 

 

Pretty sure you'd have to overpay to pry him away from the Ducks. Which isn't a good way to rebuild...actually it isn't a good way to do anything. See Chuck Fletcher. If they were willing to deal him, there'd be a bidding war.