John Tortorella?

[phlfly]

The question is Tort a good coach for this rebuild ? 

He can say some **** about player just to passed him off. 

I know there is no good and bad coaching for the Flyers team as of today.  But we shall see

[radoran]

Tortorella came here for the rebuild.

 

I think he's a coach that can get "more" out of "less" but that that has limitations and a shelf life.

 

He's not the wrong coach now, but he might not be the right one when it comes to take the next steps.

 

That being several years away - conservatively - he's fine where he is.

[Brewin Flames]

By the time the russian superstar gets here, he'll have been fired by then so.....

[pilldoc]

Tortorella isn’t going anywhere.

 

Whether you think Torts is a winning coach or not it’s irrelevant because it’s been admitted that the Flyers are not contending anytime soon, he was hired to bring some accountability and commitment to the team which was clearly lacking. If you enjoyed watching the likes of Kevin Hayes, Keith Yandle etc dog it then I guess Torts is the wrong guy. But at some point you can’t keep firing coaches because players don’t “buy in”.

 

I think he did a fairly good job exposing players that quit or weren’t willing to do what coaches were asking.  Funny how it was young guys like TK, Cates, Tippett, Frost, Forrester, Errson that seemed to excel and vets like Hayes struggled with being held accountable. It has been said he isn’t the best coach but he is the best coach right now for the Flyers.

 

It’s mind boggling to me how before Torts fans were clamoring that “the players are soft not committed or accountable” Torts comes in to try and fix it and some of those very same Flyer fans do a quick 180 and spout off that “Torts has never won anything” while also saying Flyers are gonna be horrible for the next "X" years”.

 

It’s clear that some fans just want to whine about everything. I don’t think it’s the majority of the fans just this cesspool from social media sites like FB and Twitter.

 

Hilferty has been speaking since April as if he views Tortorella very much as part of the solution in Philadelphia. My guess is that the organization’s trust in Tortorella played a role in deciding on this structure — after all, a GM from the outside likely would be interested in hiring a new coach, as would a PoHO with significant team-building powers.

 

Briere, Torts, and Jones have a valuable insight into the team's current talent, needs, and players to possibly get rid of. Their knowledge gives them a huge advantage over any new management team that may come in; in fact, new management may need one or two years to understand the team's current state, while Briere, Jones and Torts already have a good understanding and is an asset to the team going forward.

 

As @radoran stated and I wholeheartedly agree ....

 

14 hours ago, radoran said:

He's not the wrong coach now, but he might not be the right one when it comes to take the next steps.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by pilldoc

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The issues I have with Tortorella are very minute. I love that he emphasizes team and that you don't play for yourself, you play for everyone on the bench. I love that. I also love that you know where you stand with Tortorella. There's no blurred lines there. Finally, I love that he understands he's the boss and things are done his way. Other coaches cater to the star players and allow them to do whatever and he'll have none of that. The fourth line players are just as important as the first line players and if the fourth liners play hard, you play hard, regardless of your status. That's how you set culture.

 

The issues that I have with Tortorella is that he plays the guys so hard that when playoff time rolls around, they're spent. Every now and then, there's nothing wrong with letting up on the gas pedal. 

 

The other thing I'd love to see Tortorella do is let the guys every now and then play a bit of wide open hockey, especially when you've got a big lead. Hockey is supposed to be a game and games are supposed to be fun. Let the guys have fun every now and then. Hockey is a long season.

 

Finally, the last thing that I don't like about Tortorella is his lack of tact at times. When he compared Frost to a toilet seat, he was completely out of line. He could have easily said that Frost is struggling like most players do and his play is erratic, but he intentionally compared him to a toilet seat for no other reason that to be a prick. Funny that Tortorella never mentioned that instead of playing Frost with good players, he'd play Frost with his like Deslauriers and MacEwan. It wasn't until he started playing Frost with other talented players that Frost began to pick up his play. Tortorella could use a lesson in humility and maybe admit that sometimes his ways backfire and don't work. 

 

However, I admit that he's the perfect coach for the rebuild. He can weed out guys who won't buy into things and he can get through to young players and they all play their best for him. That means something, especially when you need to rebuild and change the culture.

[flyercanuck]

I've never liked Tortsie as a coach...arrogant loudmouth who throws his players under the bus.

 

But he helped get Fletcher fired and rid of Haysee/Deangelo so for that alone he's ok for now in my books. I don't see him being here when we're relevant...his shelf life just isn't that long. Unless of course he gets the proverbial Flyers you suck at your job so here's a promotion treatment.

[Howie58]

My two cents: Our problem has been talent, not coaching. Keep Torts around for a few years to get a read on talent acquisition and development.  Changing the coach and system throws a monkey wrench into the mix. Let him serve out the contract and reevaluate at that point. 

[flyer4ever]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I've never liked Tortsie as a coach...arrogant loudmouth who throws his players under the bus.

 

But he helped get Fletcher fired and rid of Haysee/Deangelo so for that alone he's ok for now in my books. I don't see him being here when we're relevant...his shelf life just isn't that long. Unless of course he gets the proverbial Flyers you suck at your job so here's a promotion treatment.

ditto.

[CoachX]

17 hours ago, phlfly said:

The question is Tort a good coach for this rebuild ? 

 

Flyers obviously think he is. And that's really all that matters.  Otherwise they would have already replaced him

[CoachX]

16 hours ago, pilldoc said:

It’s clear that some fans just want to whine about everything

 

 

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, Howie58 said:

My two cents: Our problem has been talent, not coaching. Keep Torts around for a few years to get a read on talent acquisition and development.  Changing the coach and system throws a monkey wrench into the mix. Let him serve out the contract and reevaluate at that point. 

 

This, right here 

[OccamsRazor]

I think Torts holds the spot down till Simon Gagne is ready to coach...

[Podein25]

51 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think Torts holds the spot down till Simon Gagne is ready to coach...

 

Where is SG coaching?

[CoachX]

20 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Where is SG coaching?

the Paul Holmgren  Center "For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too"

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Where is SG coaching?

 

Quebec Remparts but I also want to say he got promoter to GM or assistant GM fresh off their Memorial Cup win.

 

He work on his on the job training as we speak.

 

Who will be Flyers next coach first?

 

Brindy? Or Gagne?

 

I'm going with Simon.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by OccamsRazor
Oopps

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Brandy?

 

She was a fine girl.

[JR Ewing]

5 hours ago, Howie58 said:

My two cents: Our problem has been talent, not coaching. Keep Torts around for a few years to get a read on talent acquisition and development.  Changing the coach and system throws a monkey wrench into the mix. Let him serve out the contract and reevaluate at that point. 

 

Al Arbour was once asked what the secret to assembling a team, and he said "It's no secret. It's not complicated. Get good players." and I'm not about to disagree with him on that. The team has decided to move to a full rebuild, and it looks one hell of a lot like an Oilers rebuild to me, right down to placing former players as rookies in key management positions when they have no experience at all. Could work, but if it does, it will be mostly luck. It looks a lot like what Darcy Regier talked about: "I think if you miss the playoffs three years in a row and blow everything up, you’re more likely to miss the playoffs seven years in a row.”

 

It doesn't take long before that goes from three years to five to seven.

The rookie GM makes a mistake or two or three, and there's some setbacks.

A key player or two in the rebuild gets injured, doesn't develop as hoped or wants a change in scenery.

 

So, you fire a coach or two in there, maybe even the GM. Even if you bring in a steady hand, it takes time to set the course after he shows up and puts new people and processes in place. The next thing you know, it's been 10 years, and you've run out of lazy or toxic players to blame, and the feedback loop is largely in place in the upper suites.

 

If somebody thinks the team should move on from Kevin Hayes, that's not weird, but they didn't need John Tortorella to come in and drive down his value to the extent that they paid another team to take him. They sure as hell didn't need John Tortorella to figure out that Anthony DeAngelo is a troublesome teammate. The Flyers don't need John Tortorella to bring in accountability, since I want to meet the coach who doesn't care about that.

 

I wouldn't want Torts anywhere near my rebuild.

[Podein25]

23 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Kevin Hayes..they didn't need John Tortorella to come in and drive down his value

 

No, Lazy Hazy did that all by himself, that is for certain.

[CoachX]

46 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

The rookie GM makes a mistake or two or three,

as opposed to the VETERAN GM who makes a mistake, or two, or ALL of them. Instead of a rebuild of 3 or 7 years you get a decades plus

 

I'll take my chances with the new group, to include Torts. At least there is a chance

[CoachX]

49 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

they didn't need John Tortorella to come in and drive down his value to the extent that they paid another team to take him. They sure as hell didn't need John Tortorella to figure out that Anthony DeAngelo is a troublesome teammate.

Right. And the move to sign those players had nothing to do with Torts and everything to do with the GM

[flyercanuck]

52 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Al Arbour was once asked what the secret to assembling a team, and he said "It's no secret. It's not complicated. Get good players." and I'm not about to disagree with him on that. The team has decided to move to a full rebuild, and it looks one hell of a lot like an Oilers rebuild to me, right down to placing former players as rookies in key management positions when they have no experience at all. Could work, but if it does, it will be mostly luck. It looks a lot like what Darcy Regier talked about: "I think if you miss the playoffs three years in a row and blow everything up, you’re more likely to miss the playoffs seven years in a row.”

 

It doesn't take long before that goes from three years to five to seven.

The rookie GM makes a mistake or two or three, and there's some setbacks.

A key player or two in the rebuild gets injured, doesn't develop as hoped or wants a change in scenery.

 

So, you fire a coach or two in there, maybe even the GM. Even if you bring in a steady hand, it takes time to set the course after he shows up and puts new people and processes in place. The next thing you know, it's been 10 years, and you've run out of lazy or toxic players to blame, and the feedback loop is largely in place in the upper suites.

 

If somebody thinks the team should move on from Kevin Hayes, that's not weird, but they didn't need John Tortorella to come in and drive down his value to the extent that they paid another team to take him. They sure as hell didn't need John Tortorella to figure out that Anthony DeAngelo is a troublesome teammate. The Flyers don't need John Tortorella to bring in accountability, since I want to meet the coach who doesn't care about that.

 

I wouldn't want Torts anywhere near my rebuild.

 

I agree with most of what you said, other than, as mentioned, Tortorella driving Hayes value down. I never saw him as having value to begin with...at least nowhere near what Fletcher thought he had. 

 

I also don't want him near my rebuild.

[JR Ewing]

@CoachX At no time did I suggest that the Flyers should have kept Chuck Fletcher. It was a mistake to hire him, and I don't blame you for being happy that he's gone. I don't think that means that the answer to that mistake is a rookie who was the last guy's assistant, and whose boss' career track, from player to years on TV to upper management, is kind of the oddest that I've ever seen.

[flyercanuck]

Just now, JR Ewing said:

@CoachX At no time did I suggest that the Flyers should have kept Chuck Fletcher. It was a mistake to hire him, and I don't blame you for being happy that he's gone. I don't think that means that the answer to that mistake is a rookie who was the last guy's assistant, and whose boss' career track, from player to years on TV to upper management, is kind of the oddest that I've ever seen.

 

I hate that it's. yet again, a bunch of ex-Flyers running the show. It's never worked, so lets try it yet again!

 

But I'm soooooo happy it isn't Fletcher that that's all that matters ....for now.

[JR Ewing]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I agree with most of what you said, other than, as mentioned, Tortorella driving Hayes value down. I never saw him as having value to begin with...at least nowhere near what Fletcher thought he had. 

 

His value certainly wasn't sky high. Going into last year's All-Star break, I'd guess that it wasn't "we'll pay half his salary if you take him" kind of low.

 

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

I also don't want him near my rebuild.

 

Yeah, like I said, not wanting him around isn't a weird take on the player; he has his issues. The day he signed the contract, this is the year where I said that the Flyers would be looking for escape hatch, and here we are. He's always been inconsistent, but it's been my observation over the years, more than a few times that we hear a guy is lazy, we later find out that he had injury problems. Hayes has missed substantial time with adductor issues, which hurts your mobility/motor a lot.

 

I guess I've never been a big believer in the "locker room cancer" theory much more than I'm one in the "peerless leader" vision we get of players. The Flyers don't need him around for the rebuild, but the way that some people go on about him, you'd think he was the reincarnation of Dick Allen, who really was a locker room cancer.

 

[radoran]

47 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

No, Lazy Hazy did that all by himself, that is for certain.

 

He was an All Star!