The Hockey Guy on Fedotov and Michkov

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

who?

oh, did you hear? JVR is gone!

 

Who?

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

I don't know if anybody is screwing Michkov over... St. Petersburg didn't have space for him last year so they loaned him to Sochi, and the KHL is a league where kids are healthy scratched a lot of the time and if they dress will get very little ice time, so this move by Fedorov isn't completely off the wall.

 

edit --- I meant to add that this is a league where kids are played so little that they created a Designated Junior rule, where the league added two roster spots that teams can use on U20s, to kind of nudge coaches towards using kids a little more often. At 18, it's not weird nor an obvious sign of a conspiracy that Michkov is having a hard time getting into games. Last year, he really only played because he was playing for a team that was desperate for talent.

 

For sure, except they dressed undrafted 17 year old Ivan Demidov. Thats the headscratcher.

[flyer4ever]

18 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Dear Pilldoc:

 

I watched another YouTube on this today.  SKA's manager is a Putin fan.  There is little doubt that MM is better than many of his teammates.  His prior play in Sochi supports that view.  I'd say this is retaliation for pursuing the IIHF judgment.  That underscored what little respect Putin has for the West and its political order.  If there were Red Chinese, North Korean, or Iranian prospects with NHL connections, I suspect they would go unfettered.  Again, I won't get too angry at the Flyers Brain Trust for swinging for the fences with MM.  I think the NHL should have shown some stones and isolated Putin by not allowing him to showcase talent in North America.  

Imagine that, a league president, a coach, a GM not giving a damn about what's best for the players and/or the game. Sounds just like the bobblehead Bettturds SOP and 32 owners who all have an ill begotten fortune. Fat old rich white guys are the same regardless of their passports.

[GratefulFlyers]

2 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Right; a coach in a league where teams play kids so little that they created a rule to get them to play them a little more often, sat a kid in favour of seasoned pros. Of those three: Vorobyov is a centre and was very good for them last year. Dedunov is a physical depth winger/grinder. Glotov is a centre. So, he was sat in favour of two players who don't play his position and one who is also a winger, but who is used in a completely different role.

 

I'm not convinced.

 

fair enough. I still think with all the media attention Michkov generated on both sides of the Atlantic (Pacific?) he rated some ice time. Many people thought he was the best player after Bedard in this year’s draft, right? For a coach to scratch him in the first game seems to me like politics and/or personality conflicts, not hockey related. 

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Here is another take from a New Jersey Devils reporter.  Note what he says about NHL getting tough with the KHL and Russia in general.  The Flyers not be the only ones impacted by Putin and his accomplices:

 

A NJ Devils Perspective on the Ongoing Ivan Fedotov Saga - All About The Jersey

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

Thanks for the link Howie that was a good read. Nice to finally get a comprehensive look at all the moving parts in Fedotov's situation.

 

It makes me wonder about Michkov. A lot can happen in 3 years but if a big, well-connected (and super-wealthy) KHL team, along with a couple Russian oligarchs go to these lengths to block Fedotov, how far will they go to hang onto Michkov?

 

Maybe it's good news that it's not about hockey. It's about power plays between the IIHF, the RHF and (so far) one wealthy KHL team. But if anything like the same politics are in play 3 years from now I doubt Michkov makes it out of Russia.

 

 

[Howie58]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Maybe it's good news that it's not about hockey. It's about power plays between the IIHF, the RHF and (so far) one wealthy KHL team. But if anything like the same politics are in play 3 years from now I doubt Michkov makes it out of Russia.

Grateful:

 

Yep.  This is political.  I suspect the O and B's decision to take the Fedotov case through the IIHF galled the Russkies because it effectively highlighted their lawlessness. Going a step further, the Flyers made the case relevant by tolling the contract and making it current.  If they had just thrown in the towel and said the hell with him, this wouldn't have happened.  So, the O and B doubly earned the oligarchs' ire/poop list.  

[GrittyForever]

22 hours ago, CoachX said:

 

who?

oh, did you hear? JVR is gone!

Ya, exactly. And who or what is a JVR? Juroslav Vladimir Rustov? Never heard of him. 

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Thanks for the link Howie that was a good read. Nice to finally get a comprehensive look at all the moving parts in Fedotov's situation.

 

It makes me wonder about Michkov. A lot can happen in 3 years but if a big, well-connected (and super-wealthy) KHL team, along with a couple Russian oligarchs go to these lengths to block Fedotov, how far will they go to hang onto Michkov?

 

Maybe it's good news that it's not about hockey. It's about power plays between the IIHF, the RHF and (so far) one wealthy KHL team. But if anything like the same politics are in play 3 years from now I doubt Michkov makes it out of Russia.

 

 

Michkov is too high profile for this to happen. IF (and it won't happen but hypothetically) they did block him he will "defect" like Alexander Mogilny back in the day and the NHL will scrap their deal with the KHL if necessary. He's going to be a Flyer, and a very good Flyer too. Relax. It's all good. 

[OccamsRazor]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:45 PM, flyercanuck said:

 

For sure, except they dressed undrafted 17 year old Ivan Demidov. Thats the headscratcher.

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

 

[ctid]

The way I see it is the Flyers swapped one major issue for another. Michkov as a prospect is less of a risk when it comes to player development and becoming a top NHL'er compared to most other prospects. Our record of developing high end prospects is not good. Instead we swapped that problem for one of a political nature. 3 years is a long time. I'm still good on the choice, especially at 7 where the other option was Leonard. Leonard is not going to be a game changer, michkov most likely will be. For me it's worth the risk.

[SCFlyguy]

He played minimal minutes in the third game.  This is much ado about nothing.  They are a deep team and they are probably making the highly touted kid earn his minutes instead of being given everything on a platter.

 

If it were the Flyers, they would have made him Captain at 18.

[mojo1917]

Scout's Analysis: On Matvei Michkov and developing a prospect in Russia (sportsnet.ca)

 

pretty good article that supports the idea that Michkov will be fine. 

[GratefulFlyers]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Scout's Analysis: On Matvei Michkov and developing a prospect in Russia (sportsnet.ca)

 

pretty good article that supports the idea that Michkov will be fine. 

Thanks for the link.
 

With respect to developing and maturing as a hockey player I’m sure he’ll be fine … provided he starts playing more than a couple shifts per game. The author makes the point that maybe he should consider going to a team that would play him every night (on a loaner deal). If a knowledgeable hockey writer is suggesting that just 3 games into the season…not exactly comforting news.

 

As far as the politics that affect Russian prospects hoping to play in the NHL…oligarchs pulling strings, Putin calling in favors, whatever else is going on behind the scenes - the article didn’t address it (unless I missed it). 
 

I didn’t know Michkov lost his father last year…”under suspicious circumstances” … Ugh. Seems to me the sooner he gets out of Russia the better, for him his family and ohyeah the Flyers.

[Cheesesteak]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:45 PM, flyercanuck said:

 

For sure, except they dressed undrafted 17 year old Ivan Demidov. Thats the headscratcher.

Did they hire Chuck Fletcher?

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Cheesesteak

[aziz]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:04 PM, GrittyForever said:

Michkov is too high profile for this to happen.

 

Why would you say that?  Who would stand to be embarrassed or threatened by refusing to allow a high profile player leave Russia to play elsewhere?  I don't think any kind of public outcry from any quarter would stop someone from doing that if that was what they wanted.  I mean, international pariah-hood didn't stop Russia for starting the first major land war in Europe since WWII, why would anyone of a Russian mindset balk at blocking a hockey player's exodus?

 

There's the defection thing, like you mentioned.  Which would require Michkov to want to defect.  Oligarchs can make your life really really nice if they decide convincing you to stay is a priority.  And can make your family's lives really not fun were you to go anyway.  

 

Assume the international niceties we've come to expect from the last 40 years to not matter anymore, in regards to Russia.  They are done playing that game and are trying to start a brand new one.  And we don't know what that will look like, but we do know the psychology that will birth it.

[aziz]

On 9/4/2023 at 9:51 AM, hmc687 said:

Things with Russia are fine.  Ukraine is losing and will lose the war primarily because theyre grossly outnumbered.

 

Things are decidedly NOT fine in Russia, aside from the war.  They are not fine now, and will get worse over the next 10 years, again regardless of the war.  Russia is in a terrible existential situation for a number of reasons, from demographics to an education system that effectively collapsed 25 years ago to an aging industrial base that cannot be rebuilt due to the aforementioned educational situation.  Life in Russia could be very good for some people, so long as they know the right other people.  it's gonna suck really bad for everyone else.  Michkov has the opportunity to know the right other people.  We'll see where his priorities end up.

 

Also, my prediction if the Ukraine does full-on lose the war, Poland will be next.  Ukraine was never the point, strategic geography in Poland and the Baltics are.  Ukraine is just on the way to those.  The fighting over the last 15 years in Georgia and Crimea were for the same reasons (though different strategic locations).

 

Again, don't carry any of the "that's how nations deal with each other" we've come to expect since the USSR collapsed forward.  They aren't relevant anymore in that part of the world.

[GrittyForever]

18 hours ago, aziz said:

 

Why would you say that?  Who would stand to be embarrassed or threatened by refusing to allow a high profile player leave Russia to play elsewhere?  I don't think any kind of public outcry from any quarter would stop someone from doing that if that was what they wanted.  I mean, international pariah-hood didn't stop Russia for starting the first major land war in Europe since WWII, why would anyone of a Russian mindset balk at blocking a hockey player's exodus?

 

There's the defection thing, like you mentioned.  Which would require Michkov to want to defect.  Oligarchs can make your life really really nice if they decide convincing you to stay is a priority.  And can make your family's lives really not fun were you to go anyway.  

 

Assume the international niceties we've come to expect from the last 40 years to not matter anymore, in regards to Russia.  They are done playing that game and are trying to start a brand new one.  And we don't know what that will look like, but we do know the psychology that will birth it.

Because Putin loves to have his hockey stars be stars here so he can parade them around Russia and say look, we beat them at their own game. If he didn't want to have stars in the NHL Ovi, his best friend, wouldn't be playing here. Michkov/Bedard will be like Ovi/Crosby. It's coming, it's real. Be afraid

 

[SCFlyguy]

Why worry about any of this when Michkov isn't going to come over for three years?  If he's done with his KHL deal and still not coming over, then we can start to worry.

[flyercanuck]

19 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Why worry about any of this when Michkov isn't going to come over for three years?  If he's done with his KHL deal and still not coming over, then we can start to worry.

 

My only concern right now is he's not playing. He's not developing if he isn't playing.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

My only concern right now is he's not playing. He's not developing if he isn't playing.

 

HHHhhhmmmmmmm...

 

[OccamsRazor]

Well damn it's official.

 

 

[RonJeremy]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:07 PM, flyer4ever said:

Imagine that, a league president, a coach, a GM not giving a damn about what's best for the players and/or the game. Sounds just like the bobblehead Bettturds SOP and 32 owners who all have an ill begotten fortune. Fat old rich white guys are the same regardless of their passports.

As are fat rich old Black, Latin,Indian and Chinese guys 

[RonJeremy]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:07 PM, flyer4ever said:

Imagine that, a league president, a coach, a GM not giving a damn about what's best for the players and/or the game. Sounds just like the bobblehead Bettturds SOP and 32 owners who all have an ill begotten fortune. Fat old rich white guys are the same regardless of their passports.

Since the Russians are not honoring the ruling on Fedetov, the Flyers should not honor Michkovs contract with Russia. Are there any international games where they can  sneak Michkov out of the country before his development is ruined from not playing or he gets sent to the Arctic Circle for Military duty.