Flyers Defensemen

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

They do, which is why Briere signed Marc Staal. He will help the team in ways that fans won’t necessarily see, especially right away, but I think this was another excellent move by Briere and the Flyers. Because you’re right the team, especially the D needs help in the leadership department. Like @CoachX says Scott Laughton can’t do it all!

It would be better if the veteran was actually paired with your top young dman. Sure, Stall can teach in practice, but the best way is in game situations and Stall probably is too old and slow for top minutes.

[RonJeremy]

6 minutes ago, ctid said:

Totally disagree! I find that if a girl is in the 7-8 range, it only takes a slight buzz to pull her up into a 9-10. For 5-6, it requires a bit more work but is definitely doable...for me it's about 3 gin tonics, 5 beers and 3 shots (not tequila)...that'll do it. Anything under 5-6 range, it's still possible to pull them up to a perceived 9-10 range, but that requires close to passing out level, which means there is that sweet spot of around 10min before passing out, where the magic happens and you look at the girl and you are totally convinced that she's a 10.

Jagermeister is like liquid LSD, you can be with a 300lb behemoth and swear your with a model. 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

but the best way is in game situations

For sure but a proven, veteran top-pair D-man is an expensive piece of the puzzle, both in terms of cap hit and the assets, the picks, prospects and/or role players you’d have to sacrifice to land him. For a rebuilding team the assets are much more valuable. We can only hope at least one of them develops into a top-pair guy.
 

The Flyers’ history developing prospects is not great but this summer they made some big changes in that department. We’ll see whether it makes a difference.

[RonJeremy]

12 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

For sure but a proven, veteran top-pair D-man is an expensive piece of the puzzle, both in terms of cap hit and the assets, the picks, prospects and/or role players you’d have to sacrifice to land him. For a rebuilding team the assets are much more valuable. We can only hope at least one of them develops into a top-pair guy.
 

The Flyers’ history developing prospects is not great but this summer they made some big changes in that department. We’ll see whether it makes a difference.

I believe our furniture top dman will be drafted in 2024. Only problem is it make take 2-3 years for that to be realized. 

[OccamsRazor]

15 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

veteran top-pair D-man is an expensive piece of the puzzle

 

Not if you draft them but i think the Flyer could very well have them...by drafting them.

 

My opinion remember is i think they have their top 3 right now.

 

York Bonk and Andrea.

 

Would could be the icing on the cake is if Grans can transforms into the stabilizing force for Andrea on the 2nd pair.

 

To give them aa top pair of the future.

 

York/Bonk

Andrea/Grans

 

At this point i am not very familiar with Grans game to call it besides what i have watched and read from scouts.

 

But it no doubt he has the potential to be a 4 D man. But you know what they say about potential.

 

[RonJeremy]

44 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not if you draft them but i think the Flyer could very well have them...by drafting them.

 

My opinion remember is i think they have their top 3 right now.

 

York Bonk and Andrea.

 

Would could be the icing on the cake is if Grans can transforms into the stabilizing force for Andrea on the 2nd pair.

 

To give them aa top pair of the future.

 

York/Bonk

Andrea/Grans

 

At this point i am not very familiar with Grans game to call it besides what i have watched and read from scouts.

 

But it no doubt he has the potential to be a 4 D man. But you know what they say about potential.

 

There are a good number of higher ceiling/skilled defenseman available in the 2024 draft than what we have now. It's absolutely imperative to hit a homerun with that pick. We should be picking in the top 5 again. 

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, RonJeremy said:

We should be picking in the top 5 again.

 

Sure they should but my gut tells me they end up with something like the 10th or 11th pick i just know it.

 

Still suck but just not enough.

[OccamsRazor]

40 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

We should be picking in the top 5 again. 

 

I'm hoping Danny can turn Seeler, Staal and Walker into draft picks and prospect by the deadline.

 

Make room for Attard, Grans and maybe Andrea the next season possible a call  up this season after they are gone.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure they should but my gut tells me they end up with something like the 10th or 11th pick i just know it.

 

Still suck but just not enough.

The thing is, all it takes is an injury on defense to any of our top 3 guys or Coots going out or just not being up to his old level and this team is a bottom 5 for sure. With all the problems Provorov had, he was the only guy we had that could play those big minutes. Unless Andrae and York turn into immediate top players , we are F'd. But that's what we want, we need a shot at the top defenseman in the draft. This is no time for improvement.  I think we have improved up front but the defense took a step back. If we unload Hart and Konecny at or before the deadline that should assure us a top 5 pick.

[Lunatic]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure they should but my gut tells me they end up with something like the 10th or 11th pick i just know it.

 

Still suck but just not enough.

I thought about this and began to realize If the Flyers end up drafting tenth, which I suspect is possible, the  players have to play  well. That means that the team and individual players are playing well enough to entice other teams to look favorably them at the  trading deadline.

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Seeler, Staal and Walker into draft picks and prospect by the deadline.

 

Seeler is much too valuable for that.

 

He's the defence's Scott Laughton.

 

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Seeler is much too valuable for that.

 

He's the defence's Scott Laughton.

 

 

 

Plus he is working with Sanheim on how to handle the puck!!!

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not if you draft them but i think the Flyer could very well have them...by drafting them.

 

My opinion remember is i think they have their top 3 right now.

 

York Bonk and Andrea.

 

Would could be the icing on the cake is if Grans can transforms into the stabilizing force for Andrea on the 2nd pair.

 

To give them aa top pair of the future.

 

York/Bonk

Andrea/Grans

 

At this point i am not very familiar with Grans game to call it besides what i have watched and read from scouts.

 

But it no doubt he has the potential to be a 4 D man. But you know what they say about potential.

 

Just on percentages, I assume at least one of those four, if not two, never play significant minutes in the NHL.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, SCFlyguy said:

Just on percentages

 

Sure but percentage from what data you'll going to pull to compare them too??

 

York 22 / Bonk 18

Andrea 21 / Grans 21

 

Or you could just give a year or two and see where they are all at.

[SCFlyguy]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Sure but percentage from what data you'll going to pull to compare them too??

 

https://hockeyanswered.com/what-percentage-of-nhl-draft-picks-make-it-to-the-nhl/

 

I haven't crunched the numbers, but this says 94% of 1st round picks and 70% of second round picks manage to play at least 1 game.  That's higher than I thought, and someone else can do the actual math.

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Or you could just give a year or two and see where they are all at.

 

I'm not the one that penciled them in as our #1, #2, and #3 defensemen.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

 

https://hockeyanswered.com/what-percentage-of-nhl-draft-picks-make-it-to-the-nhl/

 

I haven't crunched the numbers, but this says 94% of 1st round picks and 70% of second round picks manage to play at least 1 game.  That's higher than I thought, and someone else can do the actual math.

 

I'm not the one that penciled them in as our #1, #2, and #3 defensemen.

 

Ok.

 

Your negative sky is falling post is noted.

 

Thanks.

[hmc687]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:45 PM, GratefulFlyers said:

And Frost is built about the same as Martin St. Louis. Therefore Frost will be as productive as MSL, win the Hart and the Art Ross a couple times, win a Stanley Cup and then go on to coach one of the Original Six.

 

I like the way you think

[hmc687]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:40 AM, Lunatic said:

I thought about this and began to realize If the Flyers end up drafting tenth, which I suspect is possible, the  players have to play  well. That means that the team and individual players are playing well enough to entice other teams to look favorably them at the  trading deadline.

 

 

What could Konecny return?  Need a bluechip defenseman

[flyercanuck]

27 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

What could Konecny return?  Need a bluechip defenseman

 

Konecny would bring in a good haul....but I'm not sure how many teams want to trade away a bluechip defenceman. Unless he's old. And then it's pointless for the Flyers.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:18 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure they should but my gut tells me they end up with something like the 10th or 11th pick i just know it.

 

Still suck but just not enough.

The 2024 draft is at least 15 defensemen deep. They're getting a real good one regardless.

[mojo1917]

6 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

What could Konecny return?  Need a bluechip defenseman

 

I don't think TK alone brings back a blue-chip top of the lineup defenseman.

 

Speaking only for myself.

I think Konecny could be a building block.

He's young enough now that in 4 years he'll still be pretty good. 

I'm not sure about his contract situation. He'll probably want a raise I don't know where that fits with other priorities. 

 

I don't know what the rubric would be for determining what his value is to a rebuild vs value in a trade.  

 

I'm not in a hurry to trade him. 

 

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't think TK alone brings back a blue-chip top of the lineup defenseman.

Of course not.  He might bring back a prospect or pick that becomes this in 3-5 years.

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

He's young enough now that in 4 years he'll still be pretty good. 

Good enough to be making $7-8M to infinity?  You're going to have to make that decision in less than 4 years.  Personally, I need to see a couple of ppg seasons before I give him that kind of cash and I probably wouldn't even then because his age isn't going to line up very well with the rest of our prospects.

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Good enough to be making $7-8M to infinity?  You're going to have to make that decision in less than 4 years. 

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I'm not sure about his contract situation. He'll probably want a raise I don't know where that fits with other priorities. 

 

Like I said a few sentences later, I don't know how the team can realize the best value from the player's situation.

Where is he worth more?

Does the trade bring back meh with some ugh? Does he play well enough to keep him on board as a leader?

I don't think there's an easy answer. 

[OccamsRazor]

45 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think Konecny could be a building block.

 

A lot of the future questions now can be answered during this season.

 

By the end of it you'll more likely know who at RW you want to keep and extend and those of which it might want to go ahead and move.

 

Some of this i hope and gets answered and addressed even at the trade deadline towards the end of the season.

 

Guys who may attract some pick(s) with a solid showing.

 

Atkinson

Hathaway

Poehling

Laughton

Allison

 

Staal

Walker

Seeler

 

I want guess at what in return (some very little to nothing) just focusing out the over turn of the roster.

 

Ginning/Bonk

Andrea/Grans

York/Attard

 

The future looks to be shaping up in a few years.

 

ScFlyguy is going to stroke over that defense but think of it as thinning the herd.

 

Some of the kids above might not make it viewers discretion is advised.

 

There will be blood.

 

 

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

A lot of the future questions now can be answered during this season.

 

By the end of it you'll more likely know who at RW you want to keep and extend and those of which it might want to go ahead and move.

 

Some of this i hope and gets answered and addressed even at the trade deadline towards the end of the season.

 

Guys who may attract some pick(s) with a solid showing.

 

Atkinson

Hathaway

Poehling

Laughton

Allison

 

Staal

Walker

Seeler

 

I want guess at what in return (some very little to nothing) just focusing out the over turn of the roster.

 

Ginning/Bonk

Andrea/Grans

York/Attard

 

The future looks to be shaping up in a few years.

 

ScFlyguy is going to stroke over that defense but think of it as thinning the herd.

 

Some of the kids above might not make it viewers discretion is advised.

 

There will be blood.

 

 

 

 

I fully expect that they'll end up moving a number of young defenders as well. I don't think Zamula has a future here and I'm not entirely convinced Attard does either. You could possibly at Ginning to the list as well. In the case of Attard, he's already 24 and Zamula and Ginning both turn 24 in 2024. They're aging themselves out of the lineup. The Flyers could end up being even younger next year.