Flyers preview are they the worst team in Hockey?

[yave1964]

PREVIOUS SEASON 31-38-13 75 points, 7th in Metropolitan. Minus 55 goal differential

 

ADDITIONS Garnet Hathaway is a nice solid two way forward ideal for a third line, plays a heavy game. Sean Walker was trapped in LA an offensive defenseman capable of 40-45 points with some holes in his defensive game. Marc Staal is ok on the bottom pair, nothing special.

 

SUBTRACTIONS, Lots. JVR was allowed/asked to leave, taking his game to Boston of all places. Tony DeAngelo was released after a deal was thought to be struck with Carolina, he signed with the Canes shortly after. Kevin Hayes was dealt to St. Louis for little return with much of his salary retained. Ivan Provorov was dealt to Columbus. Lesser lights such as Braun, Cates and Lemeux were alowed to leave

 

PROSPECTS Tyson Foerster seems the most NHL ready in the system, he will take JVRs slot in the lineup. Egor Zamula will likely make the team on the bottom pair on defense, not much to get excited about but sound defensively. Emil Andrae will get looks/callups when people are injured. A small defenseman who has good vision but gets pushed around a fair amount. Bobby Brink, the Flyers seem to be intent on not rushing him, I think he is the first callup when a winger is injured. Honestly, I think he is a tad overrated. They seem to see something that i don't, he is a small guy who gets pushed around a lot as well. A guy who i do like who i think is a Torts kind of player is Desnoyers, a fifth rounder, he has met and exceeded expectations at every level of Hockey. A wrecking ball, bottom six forward with a sneaky scoring touch.  They have some decent to god prospects further down the line but that is about it for this year.

 

ARE THEY THE WORST TEAM IN HOCKEY? Two trades to move out salary went south, DeAngelo was bought out, they will pay him for the next two years to play in Carolina, Hayes return ended up falling apart when Krug refused to come to Philly, they are paying him to not be a Flyer for the next three years. Lindblom was alowed to go and they are paying him to be a Shark where he seems to have found a home. These are red flags. I hate the addition of Petersen and his partial contract with the Kings picking up the rest. He is a head case and i dont understand the add at all unless Hart is on the way out, which is a move that I would not personally make. 

 

  That said, no, i do not believe they are the worst team in Hockey, although they will almost certainly be among the bottom five in the standings when the year is done. They allowed the veteran core to leave, in a few cases they shoved them out in others they simply were not invited back. They seem to accept the growing pains of a young organization, Torts will train the kids up well, Konecny and Sanheim may yet be on the move, I get it with Sanheim but do not understand it with Konecny  who i could see as a building block.  They have some nice young players already in the NHL, Frost, York, Farabee, Cates are all worth watching play. Carter Hart is another young kid who may stay or may go, it looks Danny briere will listen to any team about any player and has a vision.

 

  That is why I do not believe they are the worst team in Hockey, they seem to have a plan. It could and likely will get worse before it gets better. But at least a plan seems to be in place here. I think a slip from the 75 points of last year is in order, 68 points, dead last in the Division but taking their lumps during a developmental phase is not neccesarilly a bad thing. Given a choice of 75 points and 7th with Hayes/DeAngelo/Braun types or 68 point with getting the kids prepared for the NHL it seems a no brainer to me which way to go. 

[radoran]

35 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

I hate the addition of Petersen and his partial contract with the Kings picking up the rest. He is a head case and i dont understand the add at all

 

It was necessary to get LA to give up Walker and a 2nd and retain salary on Provorov.

 

Petersen will (hopefully) be a Phantom.

[yave1964]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

It was necessary to get LA to give up Walker and a 2nd and retain salary on Provorov.

 

Petersen will (hopefully) be a Phantom.

I drank the Kool aid on him, really thought he was the real deal. I have never seen anyone whose own head is his worst enemy. I cannot remember the exact stat but it is something crazy close to 40 percent of the time after giving up a goal he gives up a second within four minutes. As soon as scored upon the flood gates open...

[flyercanuck]

Not sure if they're the worst, but close. But that's ok, they need to draft high end talent if they ever want to contend. 

[mojo1917]

@yave1964

I always appreciate these previews.

The perspective from a non-Flyer infected hockey guy is always interesting.

There is a fair amount of dead money on this roster right now, that when presented the way you have makes my belly hurt a little. 

 

I too, wonder about Bobby Brink, he's got the brain, knows where to go and all but in his first call-ups seemed a half-click slow.

Does his brain catch-up and the shots that went wide or blasted the pipes start finding the twine or is he a tweener? It's a valid question.

 

I think Andrae is a going to surprise some people, he plays with a fair amount of hate-if his body can hold up, I think he could definitely reach middle pairing NHL level play. 

Tough to knock him off his skates, he's way stronger than his frame implies. I'll agree to disagree with you on him. 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by mojo1917

[yave1964]

30 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Not sure if they're the worst, but close. But that's ok, they need to draft high end talent if they ever want to contend. 

I believe they could have the WORST record, but are absolutely not the worst organization. San Jose doesnt seem to have a clue, Columbus with Babcock right before the season is a mess. Arizona is playing in a middle school gym. The Islanders and Canucks both seem that they would be happy stumbling into the playoffs only to lose in five quick games. St. Louis and Washington are both happy to live for the glory days of a few years ago while they slip past mediocrity and into plain bad. I am sure that there are a few others who i feel are worse as an organization. Philly under Fletcher was a mess, Briere has the broom to clean up what was left behind and a plan. A lot of organizations dnt take a good hard look in the mirror and see where they are, instead continuing to put bandaids on the problem. Holland did it with my Wings for four or five years to when he road off into the sunset and left the team in in devastation. What the Flyers are doing now is what Detroit shoulda done several years before they actually did. Getting rid of the vets was a huge message, I dont like the salary being kept especialy getting nothing in return but it shows guts.

Edited September 18, 2023 by yave1964

[yave1964]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@yave1964

I always appreciate these previews.

The perspective from a non-Flyer infected hockey guy is always interesting.

There is a fair amount of dead money on this roster right now, that when presented the way you have makes my belly hurt a little. 

 

I too, wonder about Bobby Brink, he's got the brain, knows where to go and all but in his first call-ups seemed a half-click slow.

Does his brain catch-up and the shots that went wide or blasted the pipes start finding the twine or is he a tweener? It's a valid question.

 

I think Andrae is a going to surprise some people, he plays with a fair amount of hate-if his body can hold up, I think he could definitely reach middle pairing NHL level play. 

Tough to knock him off his skates, he's way stronger than his frame implies. I'll agree to disagree with you on him. 

 

I am not completely against him, Andrae can skate, is not afraid to hit, but at his size I dont see him developing into a dependable top four guy. He reminds me of Brett Lebda who had a nice career with the Wings as a 5/6 d-man who had a very good first pass, little guy but would hit people. He played around seven or eight years in the league which is certainly not nothing, he won a cup, but smalish guys especially on the back end tend not to develop into dependable top four roles. a solid 5/6 who can run the second unit power play has very nice value, that is really where i see him.

[RonJeremy]

Flyers aren't the worst probably third worst, which is perfect to draft a high end defenseman. 

[Mad Dog]

To answer the question, I don't think they are the worst, but very, very close to be a winner of this honorable title.  I think Chicago will be God awful in 2023-2024, even *with* Connor Bedard. I think the Coyotes and Sharks will also finish with fewer points by the end of the season than the Flyers.  And it looks to me like the Ducks and Blue Jackets will be right about the Flyers' level.  That said, it won't shock me if the team completely tunes Tortorella out and finishes as the worst NHL team. Something like this should actually be giving us a cause to look forward to building for future, but given that it's the Flyers we are talking, I have a feeling they will screw this up, again.  Yes, Snider is long gone and this new leadership group *should* have a different mindset.  But I am NOT sure that's the case though.  Something in the way Jones and Dannyboy sound doesn't make me a believer. And I don't trust Dan Hilferty for even a second. The way he talks about pride and going back to the way of winning makes me cringe, frankly. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Mad Dog

[RonJeremy]

41 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

To answer the question, I don't think they are the worst, but very, very close to be a winner of this honorable title.  I think Chicago will be God awful in 2023-2024, even *with* Connor Bedard. I think the Coyotes and Sharks will also finish with fewer points by the end of the season than the Flyers.  And it looks to me like the Ducks and Blue Jackets will be right about the Flyers' level.  That said, it won't shock me if the team completely tunes Tortorella out and finishes as the worst NHL team. Something like this should actually be giving us a cause to look forward to building for future, but given that it's the Flyers we are talking, I have a feeling they will screw this up, again.  Yes, Snider is long gone and this new leadership group *should* have a different mindset.  But I am NOT sure that's the case though.  Something in the way Jones and Dannyboy sound doesn't make me a believer. And I don't trust Dan Hilferty for even a second. The way he talks about pride and going back to the way of winning makes me cringe, frankly. 

All it will take  for us to be right at the bottom,is for Coots to either be a non factor or get hurt or an injury to one of our top 3 defenseman,  who in the real world are really bottom 6 defenseman.  

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, Mad Dog said:

Something in the way Jones and Dannyboy sound doesn't make me a believer. And I don't trust Dan Hilferty for even a second. The way he talks about pride and going back to the way of winning makes me cringe, frankly

What have they said that makes you think this way?

 

Everything I've heard from these guys has me feeling optimistic, Dan Hilferty especially, that dude seems to be about as thoughtful and competent as they come. 

I haven't heard all the interviews these guys give, but what I have heard hasn't given the impression we got Kramer and Newman making sausage up in this. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

All it will take  for us to be right at the bottom,is for Coots to either be a non factor or get hurt or an injury to one of our top 3 defenseman,  who in the real world are really bottom 6 defenseman.  

 

At this point a season without Hayes and JVR could only be topped with a Risto trade before the deadline of making this already the best season in forever!!!

 

To hell with where they finish as long as they finish.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I don't think they're going to be as bad as people think they'll be. The forwards are going to have to carry the defense and there's going to be a lot of high scoring games, but I think they'll finish eighth worst.

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

At this point a season without Hayes and JVR could only be topped with a Risto trade before the deadline of making this already the best season in forever!!!

 

To hell with where they finish as long as they finish.

 

 

You forgot Deangelo...we don't have to watch his no-defence anymore either.

[Math]

From an outer persepctive, yeah maybe the Flyers will be on the bottom of the rankings but with Montréal, Chicago, Columbus, San Jose, maybe Arizona and maybe St-Louis being worse. However, I like the team's direction: Brière is a competent guy that bleeds orange and cares, Tortorella can take the 100% out of this roster, the prospects are decent from what I know. Fletcher destroyed and burnt down the forest but life always appears from beneath the ground.

 

Still a long way to go but the direction is right and there are many reasons for optimism. 

[CoachX]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:28 AM, yave1964 said:

I have never seen anyone whose own head is his worst enemy.

you ever hear of a guy named Lindros?

[CoachX]

Speaking completely from an emotional POV, YES! They are, without a doubt, the worst team and franchise in hockey right now. I hate them for what they've done. I hate them for Hayes. I hate them for JVR. I hate them for Nolan Patrick. I hate them for Chuck Fletcher. And of course for some other player I won't mention, AGAIN!

 

But, allegedly there is hope. This is a true rebuild. So in true Philly fan fashion, my hate can be assuaged quite easily

[Brewin Flames]

41 minutes ago, CoachX said:

YES! They are, without a doubt, the worst team and franchise in hockey right now.

 

 

The ducks would disagree.....

[yave1964]

3 hours ago, Brewin Flames said:

 

 

The ducks would disagree.....

Actually the Ducks are a few years ahead with MacTavish, Zegras, Carlson and five brilliant D prospects.  Ducks should be the poster child for how to do a rebuild. 

[radoran]

12 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

Actually the Ducks are a few years ahead with MacTavish, Zegras, Carlson and five brilliant D prospects.  Ducks should be the poster child for how to do a rebuild. 

 

The Rags and Debs say "hello"

 

[GrittyForever]

On paper they might be the worst but I think Torts will have them playing a tight system that frustrates other teams at times and so they will win some close ones (assuming the goaltending is half decent). By no means enough to get in the playoffs, but probably keep us around where we were last year. 

 

My money is on San Jose being worst. 

[OccamsRazor]

14 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

My money is on San Jose being worst.

 

Well then they will have a nice reward waiting for them with a bow on it at the end of the year then.

[GrittyForever]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well then they will have a nice reward waiting for them with a bow on it at the end of the year then.

Still have to win the lottery. Doesn't guarantee anything. 

[radoran]

21 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Still have to win the lottery. Doesn't guarantee anything. 

 

Guarantees a top three pick.

 

Finishing 7/8 you either win the ~5% chance for the top pick or you pick 7/8.

[mojo1917]

There is a draft scenario where the Flyers could really accelerate the rebuild. 

The draft is deep with defensemen, the Flyers could ( they won't ) "win" the draft lottery and take Cellibrini and then select a 1st round talent defender with the Florida pick. 

That would make 5 first rounders in three years. If the contracts are staggered well maybe they could be signed and kept around for 6-8 years...could be really nice.