Game 16: Philadelphia Flyers at Carolina Hurricanes; 11/15/23 @ 7:30 PM, TNT

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

We are the underdog (+205), and have lost eight straight to Carolina.  Carolina has a 71% win probability, but we have won 50% of the games as underdog.  

https://www.oddsshark.com/nhl/philadelphia-carolina-odds-november-15-2023-2016714

 

Overall GF/GA aren't that different.  But look at faceoffs and specialty teams:

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/car-vs-phi/2023/11/15/2023020238

 

The two LA Kings matchups frame the question I ask going into any Flyers game these days: Which team shows up? One that's growing and competitive, or one that is mistake-prone and tough to watch?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Howie58

[OccamsRazor]

Hart in

 

Bobby Brink scratched again.

 

Flyers have the only Calder Canidate who gets scratched...go figure.

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

Nice to see Couturier and Poehling winning draws against a good FO team, Flyers are 69% so far….Tippett’s 4th in the last couple games. Hart looks great in his first game back.

 

edit: maybe the best 20 minutes so far this year from Hart and the Flyers. Winning draws, finished the 1st at 63%. Carolina has a couple of the best FO guys in the league. Good stuff Flyers!

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by GratefulFlyers

[Podein25]

21 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

69%

 

Good number!

[Howie58]

I missed the first two periods. The commentators loved the blocked shots. Poehling scored and  blocked.Hart earned his keep. I guess we have to win without PP. 

[radoran]

9 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Poehling scored and  blocked.

 

My threat to bench him worked!

 

[Howie58]

57 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

My threat to bench him worked!

 

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. You have found your calling!

[flyercanuck]

11 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hart in

 

Bobby Brink scratched again.

 

Flyers have the only Calder Canidate who gets scratched...go figure.

 

 

 

Ya, but Deslauriers managed to be a -1 in a 3-1 win so he stays .

 

'Cause veterans.

 

In other news, coveted former 2014 Minnesota Wild (of course) draft pick Louis Belpedio (doesn't this name translate to strong beautiful child molester? ...you're welcome ) broke his previous entire NHL career point total with an assist, giving him 3 points on the season.

 

Nice overall game on the Flyers.  

 

Now can we stop winning? 

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=261744

 

Mack Celebrini

Forward -- shoots L
Born Jun 13 2006 -- Vancouver, BC
[17 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 189 [180 cm/86 kg]

 

 

 

 

 

 

			Regular Season						Playoffs
Season	Team	Lge	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2022-23	Chicago Steel	USHL	50	46	40	86	62	27	2	0	0	0	2
2023-24	Boston University	H-East	9	8	10	18	4	6

Edited November 16, 2023 by flyercanuck

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ya, but Deslauriers managed to be a -1 in a 3-1 win so he stays .

 

'Cause veterans.

 

In other news, coveted former 2014 Minnesota Wild (of course) draft pick Louis Belpedio (doesn't this name translate to strong beautiful child molester? ...you're welcome ) broke his previous entire NHL career point total with an assist, giving him 3 points on the season.

 

Nice overall game on the Flyers.  

 

Now can we stop winning? 

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=261744

 

Mack Celebrini

Forward -- shoots L
Born Jun 13 2006 -- Vancouver, BC
[17 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 189 [180 cm/86 kg]

 

 

 

 

 

 

			Regular Season						Playoffs
Season	Team	Lge	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2022-23	Chicago Steel	USHL	50	46	40	86	62	27	2	0	0	0	2
2023-24	Boston University	H-East	9	8	10	18	4	6

 

Oilers will end up with #1.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

They need to fire Rocky Thompson ASAP. Enough of this 7.7% power play nonsense. What he's doing isn't working. For an offensive coach, he's pretty terrible.

[Howie58]

11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

They need to fire Rocky Thompson ASAP. Enough of this 7.7% power play nonsense. What he's doing isn't working. For an offensive coach, he's pretty terrible.

From another angle, Carolina had 11 high-danger chances, we had four. Take away Hart and blocks, and this could have been very different. The PK is sound. Whether it's talent or scheme, the PP is bad. The SiriusXM announcer hit the nail in the head when he said you were better off playing the Flyers on the PP.

[GratefulFlyers]

42 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

They need to fire Rocky Thompson ASAP. Enough of this 7.7% power play nonsense. What he's doing isn't working. For an offensive coach, he's pretty terrible.

The PP has been abysmal for years and apparently RT has no solutions. I don’t know if he has other responsibilities on offense but his PP is D.O.A. It’s embarrassing.

[mojo1917]

Yeah the powerplay is not good. There are some talented guys on this roster, it should not be dead last and 0 for November or whatever. I do think credit should be given to the 'Canes penalty kill, they've been really good for the last few years. Brind'Amour has those guys attacking with their speed. Even the best power plays struggle against the 'Canes PK.

For the Flyers I thought the PK was excellent last night.

And even though the shots got lopsided because the 'Canes really pushed in the last 6 minutes the Flyers again played a pretty nice road game.

Even the good teams have to play hard and make plays when the opportunities arise to beat the Flyers, I'm okay with that. 

I don't think anyone learns much from repeated ass-kickings- except to expect more of them, so I'm glad this group has some spunk.

 

[Samifan]

I was there last night as I couldn’t pass up a chance to see the boys in person when they come to Raleigh. Great game by the Flyers (minus the ****** PP).

 

Hart played out of his mind. I may be in the minority but I really hope that Danny doesn’t trade him and can get him extended. Walker was a solid pick up and has played very well. Sanheim has raised his game and the ability to roll four lines or have four lines contribute is refreshing!

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

The PP has been abysmal for years and apparently RT has no solutions. I don’t know if he has other responsibilities on offense but his PP is D.O.A. It’s embarrassing.

 

Flyers could maybe use some skill injection reinforcements are coming soon...

 

 

[Lindbergh31]

6 hours ago, Samifan said:

I was there last night as I couldn’t pass up a chance to see the boys in person when they come to Raleigh. Great game by the Flyers (minus the ****** PP).

 

Hart played out of his mind. I may be in the minority but I really hope that Danny doesn’t trade him and can get him extended. Walker was a solid pick up and has played very well. Sanheim has raised his game and the ability to roll four lines or have four lines contribute is refreshing!

 

 

It's a double edged sword with Hart, as much as I'd love the Flyers extend him if they keep him he'll cost them a higher draft pick. So if Briere and Jones want to do a full rebuild then they might not have any choice but trade Hart. Trade him to Edmonton and bring back Campbell and that will guarantee the 1st overall pick with him in net.

[OccamsRazor]

16 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

It's a double edged sword with Hart, as much as I'd love the Flyers extend him if they keep him he'll cost them a higher draft pick. So if Briere and Jones want to do a full rebuild then they might not have any choice but trade Hart. Trade him to Edmonton and bring back Campbell and that will guarantee the 1st overall pick with him in net.

 

I swear if there is a player that i see saw more on it's Carter Hart. I love the kid he is the best player i have ever seen the Flyers draft to play goal.

 

So with that said if they can get a boat load then trade him i guess. I want what is best for the team and club going forward.

 

However if they want to hold onto him so by the time the team is ready to compete for something he will be around 28 which is in his prime still then with 3-4 year of good to great hockey still in him i am good with it.

 

I do not want to trade Hart just for a few draft picks that aren't 1st round picks just to make a change.

[Lindbergh31]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I swear if there is a player that i see saw more on it's Carter Hart. I love the kid he is the best player i have ever seen the Flyers draft to play goal.

 

So with that said if they can get a boat load then trade him i guess. I want what is best for the team and club going forward.

 

However if they want to hold onto him so by the time the team is ready to compete for something he will be around 28 which is in his prime still then with 3-4 year of good to great hockey still in him i am good with it.

 

I do not want to trade Hart just for a few draft picks that aren't 1st round picks just to make a change.

That's where I'm at with Hart, he's the 1st true homegrown goalie since Lindbergh, I don't count Hextall's rookie season because after that season he wasn't that good. I'm really hoping that they don't trade Hart but build around him so by the time he hits 28 years old then the Flyers contending window will be open. We'll see.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:45 AM, Samifan said:

I was there last night as I couldn’t pass up a chance to see the boys in person when they come to Raleigh. Great game by the Flyers (minus the ****** PP).

 

Hart played out of his mind. I may be in the minority but I really hope that Danny doesn’t trade him and can get him extended. Walker was a solid pick up and has played very well. Sanheim has raised his game and the ability to roll four lines or have four lines contribute is refreshing!

 

 

 

Here's my issue with Hart. He gets on a roll early in the season and he looks all world. Then a losing streak will happen and he completely falls apart. Like mentally, he completely checks out. To make matters worse, these breakdowns usually happen during important marks in the season. Then once the Flyers are eliminated from contention and the pressure is off, Hart goes back to good goalie mode.

 

I need to see Hart get over this hump before making any commitment. And even then, I'd only sign him to a over year deal to see if he can repeat his success.

 

Yeah I'm rough on Hart, but I've watched this club for nearly 40 years and I've been caught up in good goaltenders before that have flamed out. This is a critical year for Hart to set is he can finally put it all together from a mental standpoint.

[Samifan]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Here's my issue with Hart. He gets on a roll early in the season and he looks all world. Then a losing streak will happen and he completely falls apart. Like mentally, he completely checks out. To make matters worse, these breakdowns usually happen during important marks in the season. Then once the Flyers are eliminated from contention and the pressure is off, Hart goes back to good goalie mode.

 

I need to see Hart get over this hump before making any commitment. And even then, I'd only sign him to a over year deal to see if he can repeat his success.

 

Yeah I'm rough on Hart, but I've watched this club for nearly 40 years and I've been caught up in good goaltenders before that have flamed out. This is a critical year for Hart to set is he can finally put it all together from a mental standpoint.

I hear ya @BobbyClarkeFan16 I have also been waiting my lifetime for the Flyers to find a goalie to replace Bernie. Pelle was on track but sadly his addiction to adult beverages and fast cars took him too soon. 
 

The fact that Hart has been able to put up some solid numbers playing behind garbage the last few season proves to me he could be that goalie behind a good flyers team. He’s still young so he will be reaching his prime in 2-3 years when the Flyers should be coming out of this “rebuild”

 

My fear is a trade if Hart sets the franchise back. They may be good up front and on D but once again in search of that guy in net. 
 

Extend him Danny!

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Here's my issue with Hart. He gets on a roll early in the season and he looks all world. Then a losing streak will happen and he completely falls apart. Like mentally, he completely checks out. To make matters worse, these breakdowns usually happen during important marks in the season. Then once the Flyers are eliminated from contention and the pressure is off, Hart goes back to good goalie mode.

 

I need to see Hart get over this hump before making any commitment. And even then, I'd only sign him to a over year deal to see if he can repeat his success.

 

Yeah I'm rough on Hart, but I've watched this club for nearly 40 years and I've been caught up in good goaltenders before that have flamed out. This is a critical year for Hart to set is he can finally put it all together from a mental standpoint.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a Flyers goalie who's had to play behind a worse team than Harts had to. I don't mean for a season, I mean for his entire duration. Not to mention he's at the age most goalies are starting their NHL careers, and he's in his SIXTH season. The guy turned 25 not long ago. 

 

If someone wants to blow us away with an offer, take it. I just don't see it happening. And if I have to wait another 4 decades for Philly to find a decent goalie....I don't think I have that long.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a Flyers goalie who's had to play behind a worse team than Harts had to. I don't mean for a season, I mean for his entire duration. Not to mention he's at the age most goalies are starting their NHL careers, and he's in his SIXTH season. The guy turned 25 not long ago. 

 

If someone wants to blow us away with an offer, take it. I just don't see it happening. And if I have to wait another 4 decades for Philly to find a decent goalie....I don't think I have that long.

That's the thing though. The pipeline is being replenished with goaltenders and Kolosov is REALLY good. And more important, he's signed to come over next year. I had hoped for Fedotov to give over this year, but that's a wash and he'll be used as a ticket to get Michkov out of Russia early. And I fully expect that the Flyers will draft more goaltenders in 2024 and probably look at the NCAA free agents as well.

 

As for Hart, I hope he hits. I really do. But I'm not holding my breath. Yes I get that the Flyers have not been good for the majority of his career. But usually you see goalies embrace that challenge of back stopping a bad team and don't break down mentally over that. That's been Hart's Achilles heel. When things don't go his way, he gets lost mentally and checks out. He needs to get tough mentally. 

[flyercanuck]

The pipeline was replenished for 4 decades...none of them ended up being any good. Fedotov was signed to come over too...how'd that go? Kolosov might be good in the K, but that isn't the NHL. He isn't better than Hart until he actually is. And right now, he's a KHL goalie, which doesn't mean much in the NHL. You know who's ahead of Kolosov in the KHL goalie standings? Zach Fucale. Managed 4 games in the NHL after being a 2nd round pick. Kosolov is currently ranked 23rd in save percentage in the K. There's 23 teams in the K. I'm not sure what you consider "REALLY good" but come on...

 

Hart didn't just play for a bad team...he played for Fletchers team. Tell me it wouldn't mess your head watching that clown bring in some of the worst defenders in the league to "help". Dare I remind you Hart played behind  Yandle, Ristolainen, Deangelo, Gustafsson?

 

Dare I?   

Edited November 17, 2023 by flyercanuck

[pilldoc]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:11 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Oilers will end up with #1.

or the Pens ..... 

[GratefulFlyers]

46 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Hart didn't just play for a bad team...he played for Fletchers team. Tell me it wouldn't mess your head watching that clown bring in some of the worst defenders in the league to "help".

I really appreciate this and I’m not sure most fans do. It’s easy to underestimate just how funked up the team was with Fletcher in charge. He wasn’t just another bad GM he was poison. Now that he’s gone the difference on the ice is obvious. Tortorella deserves credit for getting everyone on the same page but firing Fletcher is why the Flyers look like an NHL team again. Not a great team by any stretch but at least now there’s legitimate hope…and the players know that better than anyone.