Math Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Am I wrong? I want to be. Does anyone envision a scenario where #97 is between the pipes for the Flyers again? Help me see it too, please, if you can. You want to trade for McDavid and play him as goaltender? That's a strange strategy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: I posted this in reply to @radoran in the Bruins game thread but it’s so damn good… actually it’s bc I really want some feedback and the Boston thread is dead. tl;dr version: Hart has to go ASAP. He will go, one way or another. Innocent, guilty or in between doesn’t matter. I only wish it did. Hart‘s NHL career is over. Am I wrong? ********* Regardless how it turns out Hart is finished in Philly, in the NHL too. Even if he’s exonerated criminally (and morally too, though that ship has probably sailed), the Flyers can’t be associated with him anymore. For every PR reason in the book, before this is settled the Flyers will part company with Carter Hart. He’s an RFA after this season, if he’s still on the roster they won’t negotiate a new contract. No blame to the Flyers for cutting ties with Hart. For the team’s sake the sooner the better. Hart’s situation is poison; it’s antithetical to what the Flyers are trying to accomplish. He can’t be anywhere near the team anymore. I don’t envy Briere/Jones. They’ll be accused of betraying a highly-valued, well-liked teammate just when he needs his friends the most. Am I wrong? I want to be. Does anyone envision a scenario where #97 is between the pipes for the Flyers again? Help me see it too, please, if you can. Pretty sure we won’t see Jeremy Roenick on the ice unless it is the old timers game. Does the name Billy Tibbetts ring a bell? Maybe Steve Downie? Flyers in the past have made some mind boggling decisions,not always good ones.If Hart is innocent he should be paid retroactively by the NHL for games lost and it should not negatively affect his career. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Math said: You want to trade for McDavid and play him as goaltender? That's a strange strategy... a touch of dyslexia … carry on… although where McDavid is concerned I wouldn’t put anything past his abilities even goaltending! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 11 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: I posted this in reply to @radoran in the Bruins game thread but it’s so damn good… actually it’s bc I really want some feedback and the Boston thread is dead. tl;dr version: Hart has to go ASAP. He will go, one way or another. Innocent, guilty or in between doesn’t matter. I only wish it did. Hart‘s NHL career is over. Am I wrong? ********* Regardless how it turns out Hart is finished in Philly, in the NHL too. Even if he’s exonerated criminally (and morally too, though that ship has probably sailed), the Flyers can’t be associated with him anymore. For every PR reason in the book, before this is settled the Flyers will part company with Carter Hart. He’s an RFA after this season, if he’s still on the roster they won’t negotiate a new contract. No blame to the Flyers for cutting ties with Hart. For the team’s sake the sooner the better. Hart’s situation is poison; it’s antithetical to what the Flyers are trying to accomplish. He can’t be anywhere near the team anymore. I don’t envy Briere/Jones. They’ll be accused of betraying a highly-valued, well-liked teammate just when he needs his friends the most. Am I wrong? I want to be. Does anyone envision a scenario where #97 is between the pipes for the Flyers again? Help me see it too, please, if you can. I mean yes, America loves a comeback story. If it were me in the Danny Jonesy seat, I'd be saying nothing to you lot, but providing cursory support toward Carter Hart. If all he did was nothing, which is a choice too, then I think it would send a good message to players in the league that the Flyers will not rush to judgment and their management team will treat the singular lapse of judgment fairly. There are established relationships at work here as well. How much do the Danny Jonesy know; or has Carter been forthright or lying to them about his involvement? Were it me I wouldn't rush to judgment. I'd wait and see what the actual **** is happening and then react. I wouldn't base my actions on, this asset, but rather on this human. tl:dr I can see the scenario. It may be far-fetched but I can see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, flyerrod said: If Hart is innocent he should be paid retroactively by the NHL for games lost and it should not negatively affect his career. “should not” I agree but of course it already has affected his career, in one of the worst ways a pro athlete’s career can be affected. I don’t see it getting better or turning around regardless of the verdict. Then I assume there’s a moral question for the ones who knew about the incident. It’s only a question if Hart or any of them kept silent. I don’t presume they did but if they did it seems to me a pretty clear moral failure. Understandable maybe and I sure don’t hold myself superior. At that age I might’ve shut my mouth and protected my teammates (if that’s what happened). But I grew up with 3 sisters and dealt with stupid boyfriends a couple times. I’d like to believe - as I’m sure we all would - that I’d have done the right thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 As pointed out by another poster, the Flyers have a couple of examples of players who were MORE than accused of the same type of thing, and they still got a chance to play for them. I personally think they enough about the situation that it prompted them to find, and prepare Errson to take Harts position. You can't blame them. They have no idea what the outcome will be. It seems pretty obvious though, if they had information indicating Hart was "innocent", their approach would be different. Based on his contract status, I agree he will not play in Philly again. But if he is cleared, another NHL team will take a chance on him. Wins matter more than real life ethics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 58 minutes ago, CoachX said: As pointed out by another poster, the Flyers have a couple of examples of players who were MORE than accused of the same type of thing, and they still got a chance to play for them. I personally think they enough about the situation that it prompted them to find, and prepare Errson to take Harts position. You can't blame them. They have no idea what the outcome will be. It seems pretty obvious though, if they had information indicating Hart was "innocent", their approach would be different. Based on his contract status, I agree he will not play in Philly again. But if he is cleared, another NHL team will take a chance on him. Wins matter more than real life ethics So it seems gang rape & sexual assault is more acceptable than Kate Smith. If so, the team ownership has a severe moral problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, Fuzz said: So it seems gang rape & sexual assault is more acceptable than Kate Smith. If so, the team ownership has a severe moral problem! the Kate Smith issue has nothing to do with players. For clarity, I think that issue is BS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, CoachX said: the Kate Smith issue has nothing to do with players. For clarity, I think that issue is BS Yes and the song Santa Baby is misogynist and they want it banned, but Retardi Bs song W A P is family listening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 5 hours ago, radoran said: Said exactly the opposite. Well, 8% of what you said hinted otherwise, so... of course, that was roughly 2.5% of everything you thought but didn't say. On average, 463,000 sexual assaults are reported annually (victims 12 and older). Only 31% of sexual results are reported. a long time ago, 8% of sexual assaults are uncomfirmable. The math is that only 2.5% of sexual assuaults are officially unconfirmable by investigators. Therefore, it's clear that nearly all are unconfirmable and must, therefore, be ignored and we must be a pompous ### to those who default to the 97.5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: “should not” I agree but of course it already has affected his career, in one of the worst ways a pro athlete’s career can be affected. I don’t see it getting better or turning around regardless of the verdict. Then I assume there’s a moral question for the ones who knew about the incident. It’s only a question if Hart or any of them kept silent. I don’t presume they did but if they did it seems to me a pretty clear moral failure. Understandable maybe and I sure don’t hold myself superior. At that age I might’ve shut my mouth and protected my teammates (if that’s what happened). But I grew up with 3 sisters and dealt with stupid boyfriends a couple times. I’d like to believe - as I’m sure we all would - that I’d have done the right thing. The bottom line is ,once accusations like this are made , even if you are innocent the corporation will never take your side, they will turn their back on you. I just hope we can get a solid return, but I’m sure we will be lowballed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, CoachX said: the Kate Smith issue has nothing to do with players. For clarity, I think that issue is BS The Kate Smith issue has everything to do with team management. And team management in the end determines who's on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 19 minutes ago, Fuzz said: The Kate Smith issue has everything to do with team management. And team management in the end determines who's on the team. The Kate Smith issue has everything to do with "franchise" management, not the team itself. The Flyers decided to acquiesce to the the public under societal pressure, which I think was ridiculous. In the case of Hart they granted him leave due to him being the subject of investigation. Societal pressure has nothing to do with it. If he gets cleared, is under contract, and can win them hockey games, he will be back between the pipes. They won't care about society (see Billy Tibbetts) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 47 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Well, 8% of what you said hinted otherwise, so... of course, that was roughly 2.5% of everything you thought but didn't say. On average, 463,000 sexual assaults are reported annually (victims 12 and older). Only 31% of sexual results are reported. a long time ago, 8% of sexual assaults are uncomfirmable. The math is that only 2.5% of sexual assuaults are officially unconfirmable by investigators. Therefore, it's clear that nearly all are unconfirmable and must, therefore, be ignored and we must be a pompous ### to those who default to the 97.5% if they don't know how many sexual assaults are "unreported", how do they determine percentage that are? Edited January 30 by CoachX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 45 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: The bottom line is ,once accusations like this are made , even if you are innocent the corporation will never take your side, they will turn their back on you. I just hope we can get a solid return, but I’m sure we will be lowballed. I don't think so. Again, see Billy Tibbetts. Not that Tibbetts is an example of this, but sports franchises will tolerate a lot if it means they will win games. See Ray Lewis and Kobe Bryant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CoachX said: The Kate Smith issue has everything to do with "franchise" management, not the team itself. The Flyers decided to acquiesce to the the public under societal pressure, which I think was ridiculous. In the case of Hart they granted him leave due to him being the subject of investigation. Societal pressure has nothing to do with it. If he gets cleared, is under contract, and can win them hockey games, he will be back between the pipes. They won't care about society (see Billy Tibbetts) You're not being honest if you feel as though "franchise" management isn't able to pressure the team in a situation like gang rape & sexual assault. However it appears Kate Smith was a bigger issue. Edited January 30 by Fuzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Fuzz said: You're not being honest if you feel as though "franchise" management isn't able to pressure the team in a situation like gang rape & sexual assault. However it appears Kate Smith was a bigger issue. Of course they are. And they probably will. But that's not what I'm saying. What I AM saying is, the Flyers franchise making a social justice decision on a political matter, i.e. Kate Smith, is not the same as the personnel team making a decision on a player based on alleged criminal conduct. why is this so hard? Edited January 30 by CoachX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 31 minutes ago, CoachX said: if they don't know how many sexual assaults are "unreported", how do they determine percentage that are? I've always asked that very question myself. Apparently, Jeffrey Epstein kept detailed records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 minutes ago, CoachX said: why is this so hard? Given the context, maybe rephrase? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 6 minutes ago, CoachX said: Of course they are. And they probably will. But that's not what I'm saying. What I AM saying is, the Flyers franchise making a social justice decision on a political matter, i.e. Kate Smith, is not the same as the personnel team making a decision on a player based on alleged criminal conduct. why is this so hard? let me rephrase.... why is this so difficult? redirect: Why am I so insensitive? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, CoachX said: redirect: Why am I so insensitive? cue the softball responses....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, CoachX said: Of course they are. And they probably will. But that's not what I'm saying. What I AM saying is, the Flyers franchise making a social justice decision on a political matter, i.e. Kate Smith, is not the same as the personnel team making a decision on a player based on alleged criminal conduct. why is this so hard? Social Justice? No such thing. There's justice & injustice. If they are able to keep Hart on this team & also trash Kate Smith they are morally confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 There's no longer any question whether or not Hart has taken leave for any other reason than that he, Michael McLeod, Dillon Dube, and Cal Foote will be charged with sexual assault. We can close down this thread and further discussion can be re-directed to the new one: 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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