What's Konecny's value? contract or trade

[GratefulFlyers]

I seriously doubt Tortorella believes AB is more valuable to a team than CD. McD is no cherry-picker and Tortorella knows that, despite whatever he said (in whatever context).

 

Nevertheless I'd love to read the comment - can't seem to find it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JR Ewing]

59 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I seriously doubt Tortorella believes AB is more valuable to a team than CD. McD is no cherry-picker and Tortorella knows that, despite whatever he said (in whatever context).

 

Nevertheless I'd love to read the comment - can't seem to find it.

 

 

The rest of the clip isn't in there, but he went on to say that McDavid needs to be more like Sasha Barkov, essentially saying that McDavid wasn't concerned with his defensive play, which was far from the truth. McDavid's current season as shown by his net rating, courtesy of The Athletic:

 

The next closest is Auston Matthews at 27, MacKinnon at 26, and the rest of the group is bunched up like that, except for McDavid who is far ahead of the field, as usual.

 

Even grumpy old hockey men are starting to suggest that McDavid might be the best player ever; that's the sort of offense he's been creating... If a guy like that is even just average defensively, critics need to find something else to complain about. He's getting as much production as Kucherov, but Kuch is doing it by being abysmal defensively (20th percentile).

 

tldr - I like plenty about him, especially the way he's helping to reshape the culture in Philly, but Torts couldn't be more wrong about this.

 

 

 

---edit---

 

A range to give context for what a Net Rating of 31 means:

25: Hart calibre-season

20: Typically puts the player among the top 5 in the league.

17: Typically puts the player among the top 10 in the league.

 5: Average 1st line player.

 0: Average 2nd line player.

-4: Average 3rd line player.

-7: Average 4th liner.

 

Nathan MacKinnon and Auston Matthews are having Hart-calibre seasons. Their problem is that 97 needs a tougher league to play in.

 

 

Edited February 20 by JR Ewing

[flyercanuck]

McDavids in a tier of his own. Tortorella just likes to hear himself talk.

 

If he actually believes Barkov is a better player than McDavid, the Flyers don't have a chance.

[FD19372]

6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

McDavids in a tier of his own. Tortorella just likes to hear himself talk.

 

If he actually believes Barkov is a better player than McDavid, the Flyers don't have a chance.

I agree. If Torts clarifies it, and says Barkov is the better all-around player..than that is at least acceptable. I'll take McDavid right now, in his prime, over Barkov.

[radoran]

I drink Finnish Kool Aid and there's no way Barkov is better than McDavid.

 

SUOMI!

 

That said, Barkov has gone deeper in the playoffs...

 

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

I drink Finnish Kool Aid and there's no way Barkov is better than McDavid.

 

SUOMI!

 

That said, Barkov has gone deeper in the playoffs...

 

 

And Zach Whitecloud has gone deeper than Barkov. 

[radoran]

14 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

And Zach Whitecloud has gone deeper than Barkov. 

 

[radoran]

15 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

And Zach Whitecloud has gone deeper than Barkov. 

 

And, of course the comparison of a 1C to a 1C is almost exactly the same as comparing a 1C to a 7D.

 

Happens all the time. Scouts have made careers of it.

 

[OccamsRazor]

Travis Konecny for Logan Stankoven (not all that would be moved just main pieces) and the start of discussions.

 

Let's talk about it....

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

41 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Travis Konecny for Logan Stankoven (not all that would be moved just main pieces) and the start of discussions.

 

Let's talk about it....

Logan Stankoven, Mavrick Bourque, Dallas first and a salary dump for Konecny and Walker. 

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Logan Stankoven, Mavrick Bourque, Dallas first and a salary dump for Konecny and Walker. 

 

SOLD!

[jammer2]

13 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I strongly doubt it.

 

 

So much has to swing right in these things. You have to draft the right guy AND hope he doesn't get derailed by injuries, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

Just about the only thing that Denver Barkey has in common with Brayden Point is his size. Point is small but has explosive speed; one of the two or three fastest players in the NHL. I looked up their respective numbers during their respective draft years in junior: Point outscored his next-closest teammate by 35 points. Barkey finshed 3rd in team scoring, 24 points behind the leader.

 

Small guys without a core skill which is elite are destined to be career minor leaguers or, if they catch on for awhile in the NHL, as depth players on league-minimum contracts. Without separation speed or incredible hands or a cannon shot, they're just too easy to neutralize because they're small guys in a big man's sport.

 

If Denver Barkey has a career like Derek Ryan, I would call that a success, given what he has in his toolbox.

This is pretty misleading. Points Moose Jaw team was horrible. A lot easier to be a great player on a God awful team (21-44-3), getting all the top line, pp minutes etc. 

  Barkey's Jr team, the London Knights were indeed a powerhouse, with strong Memorial Cup aspirations. Hard to put up huge stats when you have strong proven vets in front of you blocking the way. London's record was opposite of Moose Jaw's (44-22-2). 

 

[JR Ewing]

7 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

This is pretty misleading. Points Moose Jaw team was horrible. A lot easier to be a great player on a God awful team (21-44-3), getting all the top line, pp minutes etc. 

  Barkey's Jr team, the London Knights were indeed a powerhouse, with strong Memorial Cup aspirations. Hard to put up huge stats when you have strong proven vets in front of you blocking the way. London's record was opposite of Moose Jaw's (44-22-2). 

 

 

I mean, we've both seen that argument go both ways whenever it's convenient. Players on strong teams get their sled pulled by the big dogs, too.

[mojo1917]

Stankoven, really that's the dude's name?

I'll never ever buy that sweater.

Edited February 21 by mojo1917

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

23 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

This is pretty misleading. Points Moose Jaw team was horrible. A lot easier to be a great player on a God awful team (21-44-3), getting all the top line, pp minutes etc. 

  Barkey's Jr team, the London Knights were indeed a powerhouse, with strong Memorial Cup aspirations. Hard to put up huge stats when you have strong proven vets in front of you blocking the way. London's record was opposite of Moose Jaw's (44-22-2). 

 

I don't even remember the last losing season London had since the Hunters took over. They have easily built the most pre-eminent junior hockey franchise in Canada. Not only that, but they continuously put players into the NHL in all sorts of roles. It's ridiculous how well run they are.

Edited February 21 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[jammer2]

6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I mean, we've both seen that argument go both ways whenever it's convenient. Players on strong teams get their sled pulled by the big dogs, too.

Very true. Just hard to put up amazing stats when you are not on the top line or top pp. With those big dogs removed, Barkey is 3rd in OHL scoring, leads the OHL in short handed goals with 7 (was not on the primary pk last year). 

 

 Kids upside is first line C...but a more likely role is 2C or 3C. You can't put a price on wicked non stop effort...or where Torts will slot that non stop effort in the line up. 

[jammer2]

11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I don't even remember the last losing season London had since the Hunters took over. They have easily built the most pre-eminent junior hockey franchise in Canada. Not only that, but they continuously put players into the NHL in all sorts of roles. It's ridiculous how well run they are.

It is pretty amazing. The Hunters know how to draft, trade and perpetually renew a roster! Literally everything they touch turns to Gold...very frustrating as a rival, but thankfully the Spits are no longer a division rival, thanks to the influx of American teams.

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Stankoven, really that's the dude's name?

I'll never ever buy that sweater.

 

 

HA!!!

 

I love the name actually i'd rock it makes the 90's come out me.

 

STANK GOT THAT DANK OVEN!!!

 

 

Never mind long story....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21 by OccamsRazor

[JR Ewing]

11 hours ago, jammer2 said:

Very true. Just hard to put up amazing stats when you are not on the top line or top pp. With those big dogs removed, Barkey is 3rd in OHL scoring, leads the OHL in short handed goals with 7 (was not on the primary pk last year). 

 

 Kids upside is first line C...but a more likely role is 2C or 3C. You can't put a price on wicked non stop effort...or where Torts will slot that non stop effort in the line up. 

 

I hope it works out for him; I really do. Kid has a great motor and reminds me of Kailer Yamamoto in positive and negative ways. Again; I have my little rules of thumb with hockey, and I know that means nothing, but he ticks some that tend to make me a cautious investor:

 

-Beware of players who really only start putting up a lot of offense in draft +1, because the best ones produce in their draft year. You'll get excited but they usually end up breaking your heart.

-Small guys who don't have an elite skill or two (most importantly speed) usually have a tough time in the NHL. Almost to a T, they're very smart and crafty, but the NHL is full of big and dumb guys who can neutralize them.

-Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

[jammer2]

2 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I hope it works out for him; I really do. Kid has a great motor and reminds me of Kailer Yamamoto in positive and negative ways. Again; I have my little rules of thumb with hockey, and I know that means nothing, but he ticks some that tend to make me a cautious investor:

 

-Beware of players who really only start putting up a lot of offense in draft +1, because the best ones produce in their draft year. You'll get excited but they usually end up breaking your heart.

-Small guys who don't have an elite skill or two (most importantly speed) usually have a tough time in the NHL. Almost to a T, they're very smart and crafty, but the NHL is full of big and dumb guys who can neutralize them.

-Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

I tend to agree with those rules. They are more than reasonable. 

 

 Hopefully, Barkey becomes one of the exception to the rules!

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

I tend to agree with those rules. They are more than reasonable. 

 

 Hopefully, Barkey becomes one of the exception to the rules!

 

Flyers could already have a dark horse in the center race but he maybe a year or two away from wanting to sign an entry level contract away he can play from Jake's spot or Giroux's old spot on the power play in the future.

 

 

But certainly put all your eggs in a college prospect's basket.

 

They certainly need more iron in the fire...

 

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I hope it works out for him; I really do. Kid has a great motor and reminds me of Kailer Yamamoto in positive and negative ways. Again; I have my little rules of thumb with hockey, and I know that means nothing, but he ticks some that tend to make me a cautious investor:

 

-Beware of players who really only start putting up a lot of offense in draft +1, because the best ones produce in their draft year. You'll get excited but they usually end up breaking your heart.

-Small guys who don't have an elite skill or two (most importantly speed) usually have a tough time in the NHL. Almost to a T, they're very smart and crafty, but the NHL is full of big and dumb guys who can neutralize them.

-Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

Similar to guys who have a great NFL combine and turn into colossal failures like Zac Wilson and Mike Mamula.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

53 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Similar to guys who have a great NFL combine and turn into colossal failures like Zac Wilson and Mike Mamula.

Dale Hunter runs an exceptionally tight ship in London though. Veteran players will always get the preferential treatment they're because they know specifically what he wants. And don't forget that Easton Cowan was in the same boat as Barkey was. When everything clicked for Barkey and Cowan in the playoffs, that's when everyone started to take notice. 

 

Do I think Barkey is the next Brayden Point? I doubt it. However, there's no reason to believe that he can't be a less abrasive Brad Marchand. I'm hopeful that they won't do the typical Flyers development plan and pigeon hole Barkey into a role. Develop his talent and see where he fits. Don't try to fit him into a spot in the system.

[RonJeremy]

6 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Dale Hunter runs an exceptionally tight ship in London though. Veteran players will always get the preferential treatment they're because they know specifically what he wants. And don't forget that Easton Cowan was in the same boat as Barkey was. When everything clicked for Barkey and Cowan in the playoffs, that's when everyone started to take notice. 

 

Do I think Barkey is the next Brayden Point? I doubt it. However, there's no reason to believe that he can't be a less abrasive Brad Marchand. I'm hopeful that they won't do the typical Flyers development plan and pigeon hole Barkey into a role. Develop his talent and see where he fits. Don't try to fit him into a spot in the system.

I agree  

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Dale Hunter runs an exceptionally tight ship in London though. Veteran players will always get the preferential treatment they're because they know specifically what he wants. And don't forget that Easton Cowan was in the same boat as Barkey was. When everything clicked for Barkey and Cowan in the playoffs, that's when everyone started to take notice. 

 

Do I think Barkey is the next Brayden Point? I doubt it. However, there's no reason to believe that he can't be a less abrasive Brad Marchand. I'm hopeful that they won't do the typical Flyers development plan and pigeon hole Barkey into a role. Develop his talent and see where he fits. Don't try to fit him into a spot in the system.

 Dale has been through this process so many times its crazy! He knows EXACTLY when the light switches on for a prospect...in some cases, I'm sure within a few periods. If Barkey played for anyone else, hes drafted a few rounds later. Its his skill, but Hunter opens the door of opportunity.

 

  A BIG thing to leap over kids and take minutes away from established Knights players during the playoffs.