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Elite Defenseman


activestick
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After watching the first two games, it seems obvious to me that we still need a stud d'man to throw us over the top. I wonder with Laughton looking very good to this point that either he or Couturier gets traded for Subban? I don't consider Subban a "stud d'man" but he is an upgrade skillwise, especially offensively.

I don't think an offer sheet would fly. Montreal would match. This will have to be a trade, if it happens.

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FA pool is not good this year. Timo is cream of the crop, and there's Regehr, and really that's about it. If Timo wants to return, I'd love to have him back for a few million.

Subban's ceiling is pretty high, and if it takes a guy like Coots to get it done, you wouldn't do it? I don't want to give him up either, but we don't have any top flight defensemen in the system, so the only way we'll get one during the Giroux window is to trade for one or sign a UFA.

As far as trading for a top pairing d-man, the only untouchable for me is Giroux. He's untouchable, period. But everyone else is fair game.

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FA pool is not good this year. Timo is cream of the crop, and there's Regehr, and really that's about it. If Timo wants to return, I'd love to have him back for a few million.

Subban's ceiling is pretty high, and if it takes a guy like Coots to get it done, you wouldn't do it? I don't want to give him up either, but we don't have any top flight defensemen in the system, so the only way we'll get one during the Giroux window is to trade for one or sign a UFA.

As far as trading for a top pairing d-man, the only untouchable for me is Giroux. He's untouchable, period. But everyone else is fair game.

I agree

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I am a fan of Subban but there is no way I trade Couts for him. If I were Homer I might throw a feeler out there to see what it would take but guaranteed they say Schenn or Couts.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. Our need for a cornerstone defenseman for years to come is much greater than hanging on to Schenn or Coots. We are good at drafting forwards. I'm sure we'll draft more guys like that. Laughton already seems to be another good find.

But we SUCK at drafting defensemen.

And it's much much easier to trade for a 2nd or 3rd line center than it is for a top pairing/#1 defenseman.

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Our d is in need of an upgrade but really is that upgrade of like subban for couts or scheen or both worth it now? I mean subban doesn't give us a cup this year. Anybody who thinks this is a legit cup contender with just one added dman is just a homer. I love the flyers but for the last two years I've been praying for lottery picks. That's where we will get our dman for the now and future. Sacrifice maybe two years for 10-15 years of top dmen now.

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Our d is in need of an upgrade but really is that upgrade of like subban for couts or scheen or both worth it now? I mean subban doesn't give us a cup this year. Anybody who thinks this is a legit cup contender with just one added dman is just a homer. I love the flyers but for the last two years I've been praying for lottery picks. That's where we will get our dman for the now and future. Sacrifice maybe two years for 10-15 years of top dmen now.

That's the Penguins blueprint, not the Flyers.

If your team legitimately sucks, that's fine. Edmonton should be a power house in a few years... the Blues are projected by some to win the Cup. But Snider said after that atrocious season we had when we got ROBBED of the first overall pick that the Flyers don't rebuild, they reload. That leads me to believe that as long as they have money, they will never just sit on the sidelines and let the chips fall where they may.

And re: Subban, I know that doesn't get us a Cup this year. But if the Flyers do make a move for a young defenseman, it would be nice to have him here for a few years to develop some chemistry with the guys.

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@brelic

I hear what you are saying and I totally see your point. At this moment, I am just not comfortable trading away Coots. I agree Giroux is untouchable.

I don't know how this team is going to respond this year. The trading deadline could get very interesting.

What about Briere? I know he is money when it comes to the playoffs and there has been discussion on this forum (good and bad) about potentially buying out his contract. I would hate to that. It pains me to say that. I really like Briere and he has earned his place in Flyer history.

Do you go with a proven commodity or do you trade off your young talent for a player for which at the moment has tons of upside to his career and could quite possibly become another Giroux. Tough decisions I agee. I do not want to be in Homer's shows when it comes to those type of decisions.

Let me ask you this .....do you think Subban for Coots is an equal trade? (if that is your proposition?)

PS I still cringe when I think about P. Sharp and J. Williams being traded.

Edited by pilldoc
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What about Briere? I know he is money when it comes to the playoffs and there has been discussion on this forum (good and bad) about potentially buying out his contract. I would hate to that. It pains me to say that. I really like Briere and he has earned his place in Flyer history.

I'm with you on this one. I would hate to move Briere. I don't know if the Habs still feel too jilted by the Briere snub to entertain that, and I don't know if Briere would agree to be moved (though maybe now with 2 years left, he'd be ok with it). In any case, I stand by my comment that Giroux is the only untouchable. I feel Briere has done so much for this team on and off the ice, that it would be just as un-classy to move him as they did with Gagne. But, it is a business, and we don't get to make those decisions.

Do you go with a proven commodity or do you trade off your young talent for a player for which at the moment has tons of upside to his career and could quite possibly become another Giroux. Tough decisions I agee. I do not want to be in Homer's shows when it comes to those type of decisions.

Let me ask you this .....do you think Subban for Coots is an equal trade? (if that is your proposition?)

Equal trade? Hmm, very good question. Subban was a 2nd rounder, but he's playing like a top 10 pick. In fact, only one defenseman from that draft (Shattenkirk) has more points than Subban, and only 11 players at any position have more points than him. I think his ceiling is very high.. possibly being mentioned in Norris conversations one day.

Coots? Not sure what his ceiling is. Many have compared him to Keith Primeau and Mike Richards. He seemed to have a decent offensive touch last year for a rookie, and his defensive play was impressive to say the least. He doesn't strike me a top line center, but perhaps 2nd line center. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball so I could be way off in either direction.

At the end of the day, you are trading potential for potential. With Subban, a little more of that potential is realized only because he has that much more experience than Coots (and he's only 23). Coots is about 3-4 years younger and just starting his second year.

So is it a fair trade? I'll let Homer and Bergevin work that out, haha! I'd say pretty close, imo.

PS I still cringe when I think about P. Sharp and J. Williams being traded.

So do I!! Especially Sharp. He was basically given away.

We do have some of those trades that worked out for us too. LeClair was the steal of the decade. Coburn for Zhitnik was brilliant. You win some you lose some :)

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I don't think you guys are in any danger of being bottom of the barrel, that's for sure. I also don't see Couturier for Subban straight up as if you do think they're even up on the potential market, a D man is tougher to find than a Center. Montreal though has made some bonehead moves so hey, what do I know? I do think you guys overrate Couturier up till now, but I'm not taking anything away from what he may turn into.

I think I'd be in the trade for one camp if I were you. You're front loaded and need help WHILE Giroux is at his peak years. If you wait to develop one you may be needing more firepower up front again by then, who knows? Briere isn't going to bring you much, so expect to lose a young talent up front to gain one in the back.

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@Polaris922

no one knows the future, but with regard to Couturier , he's going to fill out, and the game will slow down for him. he has shown already (at least to me) that he has elite vision , he has a very good shot that he'll learn to trust more and more as he grows and plays in the league a little longer, the worst i see him becoming is an all situation player that you can count on for 50 pts a year, that's his bottom. those guys don't grow on trees especially ones that will back check.

i'm not sold on subban as the end all be all , i think he's possibly available and so more attractive, he's not a guy i give up couturier for, perhaps another up and coming guy , too many times i've watched him make terrible plays in his own end plus where there's smoke there's usually fire with regard to the personality issues with PK for me to think it's a deal worth making.

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So do I!! Especially Sharp. He was basically given away.

Sharp was traded for Matt Ellison if I remember correcty. Talk about a waste of space. He wasn't even AHL talent...he was ECHL talent. Saw him play for the Norfolk Admirals. I was so ticked when that trade went down.

I agree LeClair was the steal of century........

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Me personally I wouldn't want Subban at all. I just wouldn't expect Montreal to part with him even up for Couturier because they feel he's a top notch D and though I disagree, they'll expect more for a D than if it were forward for forward is my point.

If I were a Flyer in the trading market, I'd be looking for someone better than him if I'm giving up some talent.

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Repeat...I do NOT want Coots traded. Laughton is still to young to see what his potential is. I know we all want a "Stud" d-man, however, Homer went down this road before by trading young talent. Buyout Bryz in the off season and see what FA are available. Homer tried with Suter and Weber and just missed. Do not sell the farm at this point.

I package 2 juicy boogers to carolina for Joni Pitkanen :lol:

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Montreal will be very wary to trade Subban, they already got sodomized in the deal when they took Gomez from the Rangers for Mcdonough and Higgins., can you imagine, and we got Matt Walker for Gagne..the Rangers should have had to give up players to Montreal for taking Gomez. Mcdonough is already a top notch shutdown defenseman, hes is one of the best already...wish we had him

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