ruxpin Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 What DaGreatGazoo said.@mojo1917 I agree I don't want to see the same happen to Giroux. Although, the organIzation is certainly doing its best to repeat history (not the 1975 history), huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 LOL!Nobody asked you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 @radoranNo rad you didn't say he's a bust. He does need to play better TSN ranks him 112 in their power rankings, I thought there would be a drop off in his production, I don't think the drop off is hideous ,but it is noticeable. I think it wouldn't kill the fan base to temper it's expectations for this particular team and to show some patience with young guy who is not playing poorly in his first time being a captain. People were so quick to run Richards down when he wasn't Robert Earle , that maybe I'm a little too sensitive regarding such criticisms, whether they are justified or not.I, personally (me), believe they just made the same mistake again for the third time. Lindros, Richards, Giroux. There WAS NO NEED to put Giroux in this situation. None. Zero. Zilch.They did it anyway. And here we are.I am NOT "running Giroux out of town" - and it wasn't his production that ran Richards out. If Giroux turns into a Moody Molly in the clubhouse, refuses to talk to the media and starts pouting if his bestbud gets traded THEN I might start warming up the bus.I DO NOT expect that to happen. I am hopeful that this situation will turn out differently. But, yes, my view is somewhat jaundiced by history. As, in fairness, you note that yours is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Told you guys they should have made Bryz captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Told you guys they should have made Bryz captain.REPORTED times 100!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 @DaGreatGazoo Think about it. Everyone who wears the C either has their season turned upside down or they get traded. That's a win-win with Bryz. He'd either be a Vezina contender or he'd be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 @flyercanuckWell, when you put that logic to it........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 @DaGreatGazoo Hard to believe I'm not an NHL coach or gm, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 @DaGreatGazooHard to believe I'm not an NHL coach or gm, huh?Shockingly shocking, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Fire All The Things! Panic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Now I respect Giroux's talent. But I have read a LOT of Flyers fans' threads here so I have to ask...Is there any chance that everyone's career year last year pertains to Giroux as well? That Jagr's play is what really elevated Giroux to such high levels? That he won't be producing like that again most likely and will stay roughly a point per game guy? (Not that that's a bad thing just lower than your expectations?You are bringing up one very good point... does Giroux depend on other players for his game? I think his career is still very young to answer this question conclusively. But based on what I am seeing so far, I think he is a very good player, but he does need players around him to make him a better player. I don't think Giroux is in Lindros's category of players who not only don't need other players, but actually make *other* players better... almost to the point if dominating the game. And that's fine, there are not many like Lindros or Mario Lemieux.Painfully, I have to say Malkin and Crosby are those kinds of players who make players around them better and can function very well with very little help. Every indication so far, Giroux can't. But the key words are SO FAR. He is still very young and things can change quickly. But I don’t think there is any doubt that Giroux’s play last year was in large a product of Jagr, and to a lesser degree, Hartnell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 @Mad Dog I think Claude makes players around him better also. Not to the extent of Crosby or Malkin, but he is so damn creative, and has such wonderful vision. Look at Hartnell last year, he had a career year playing with G. That was not an accident, G was able to find him with a lot of nice set up's....I don't think Harts could have had that type of year with any other Flyer center. I'm not to worried about G, he has admittedly left a lot to be desired in his recent play, but I'd be willing to bet he returns to a 90 point pace next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I just think you guys have so much superstition about the 'C' it's clouded perspectives. I don't think any of his struggles have to do with the C. I think the valid points about his performance dependent on the quality of the opponent makes sense. Talented squads are tougher to play against. Having said that, he DOES get motivated against rivals. But then again the entire team does. His success will be affected by those around him.Last year a lot of your team overachieved. This year there are growing pains. Giroux is clearly as frustrated as all of you are. If you guys had seen him Sunday during the TV timeouts... He was constantly talking to officials. His frustrations were apparent. What I'm getting at is simply that the team is having an off year. Young guys adjusting to the bright lights. You guys get a quality offensive defenseman, and see what next year brings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Now I respect Giroux's talent. But I have read a LOT of Flyers fans' threads here so I have to ask...Is there any chance that everyone's career year last year pertains to Giroux as well? That Jagr's play is what really elevated Giroux to such high levels? That he won't be producing like that again most likely and will stay roughly a point per game guy? (Not that that's a bad thing just lower than your expectations?sure... great players always elevate those around them... just ask Messier. i mean.. of course he was still a great player, but he wouldn't be THAT high up on the all time scoring list if it wasn't for his good buddy Gretzky. I mean.. let's be real here... Kunitz is NOT the next coming of Jari Kurri, but he's certainly benefitting quite nicely on lines with Malkin and Crosby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 sure... great players always elevate those around them... just ask Messier. i mean.. of course he was still a great player, but he wouldn't be THAT high up on the all time scoring list if it wasn't for his good buddy Gretzky.I mean.. let's be real here... Kunitz is NOT the next coming of Jari Kurri, but he's certainly benefitting quite nicely on lines with Malkin and Crosby.I was just referring to the idea that Giroux has great talent, but he's not quite on the Crosby or Lemieux level. Or Gretzky or whomever from that elite corps you want to use. He may be an 80 point per year guy, but the addition of Jagr gave him the space he needed to be 90+.. and he's feeling that loss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Ok, so Giroux isnt the best player in the world, I think we all know that. best player in the world!? he's not even the best player on our team!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 sure... great players always elevate those around them... just ask Messier. i mean.. of course he was still a great player, but he wouldn't be THAT high up on the all time scoring list if it wasn't for his good buddy Gretzky.I mean.. let's be real here... Kunitz is NOT the next coming of Jari Kurri, but he's certainly benefitting quite nicely on lines with Malkin and Crosby. Look at Neal. ONE goal since Malkin went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 best player in the world!? he's not even the best player on our team!!! Huh? Surely you jest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Look at Neal. ONE goal since Malkin went down.Great example... Neal has a wicked shot... But despite his size and skill he NEEDS someone to feed him pucks. He rarely creates on his own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 best player in the world!? he's not even the best player on our team!!!Well, yeah. But if we amnesty Bryz then Giroux will be the best player on our team again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I agree with polaris922 that the "C" thing is largely superstition. But @Polaris922, the problem with this is that it is taking on a life of its own in Philly just like the goalie thing and may be becoming self-prophesying. What's worse is that if the goalie thing is a good comparison, Flyer management may start thinking that way.It's certainly becoming ingrained with the fans. The goalie position in Philly is probably up with starting quarterback as the worst position in sports. The Flyer C is inching that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I saw the title and instantly thought this thread was about Jiri Dopita. I was very disappointed to find out that it was not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 @BertmegaHe may well still be the best "Dopita" in the world though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I agree with polaris922 that the "C" thing is largely superstition. But @Polaris922, the problem with this is that it is taking on a life of its own in Philly just like the goalie thing and may be becoming self-prophesying. What's worse is that if the goalie thing is a good comparison, Flyer management may start thinking that way.It's certainly becoming ingrained with the fans. The goalie position in Philly is probably up with starting quarterback as the worst position in sports. The Flyer C is inching that direction.For me, 'the C" is a representation of how badly this organization has handled virtually every aspect of running a team that doesn't involve heaving gigantic sums of money at a problem.I don't believe the C itself is "cursed" - I believe that the people who give it out are incompetent at their jobs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 For me, 'the C" is a representation of how badly this organization has handled virtually every aspect of running a team that doesn't involve heaving gigantic sums of money at a problem.I don't believe the C itself is "cursed" - I believe that the people who give it out are incompetent at their jobs.I agree with the first statement and the first part of the second statement.I even agree with the last part so long as we're giving Giroux a little bit of an excuse that he's only been captain for a whopping three months after never having been a captain before. I hate to lump the "incompetent" on him yet.But here's the thing: Is it an intelligent move on the part of management to make a guy captain who has no experience in such a position at ANY level? Here's a kid who is playing well and developing at a nice pace. So, despite the fact you have some older guys who have worn the C before and who know what's involved, you jump the gun and throw the C on the young kid. It just doesn't seem like a prudent move.I understand that the team is largely made up of young guys, so I guess the reasoning is that it's not like you're making a kid "in charge" of an older team. I guess the reasoning is you elevate a peer from the young group. But when you're an organization that has--in its own history--twice had bad experiences caused by exactly that same reasoning (Lindros & Richards), you'd think you'd shy away from that.I just don't think I would have saddled my rising star with that just yet...not in a town like Philly that makes a side sport out of eating its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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