To all of the Couturier believers

[flyercanuck]

@doom88

You can take MacKinnon and trade either him, Couturier or Schenn for a Dman. There would be plenty of takers for any one of them. If you think Drouin is better, fine. But you never take a player for need this high in the draft.

[doom88]

@doom88

You can take MacKinnon and trade either him, Couturier or Schenn for a Dman. There would be plenty of takers for any one of them. If you think Drouin is better, fine. But you never take a player for need this high in the draft.

Partially agreed. It seems like Drouin and MacKinnon are comparable based on opinion from this forum. At which point, I think positional need is a perfect tie breaker.

I would leave the defense alone, and give Gus, Lauridsen, Manning, and Bourdon a shot at a full time roster spot. I want to see if the guys step up given the chance. At the very least, I wouldn't force something just to change the defense. I would be okay with Timo, Coby, Gross, Gus, Mesz, and Schenn on the back end. I'm in no rush for a grass is greener situation, again, Carle.

Lavy needs to be on a short leash next season, two month interval of evaluation.

[flyercanuck]

@doom88

It sure would be nice to either win the lottery or pick 5th and have Nurse available there...just to make the decision easier.

[OH1FlyersFan]

I would be okay with Timo, Coby, Gross, Gus, Mesz, and Schenn on the back end.

My only fear is recurrent injuries. Timo is aging and is/could become more injury-prone. Bourdon has had his bell rung. Hopefully he shakes it off and doesn't have recurrent concussion issues. But he's the one I'm most worried about. Mesz has had this nagging shoulder situation - something that could be hard to fully recover from - I fear his better days may be behind him. Schenn seems durable enough and thankfully has avoided problems so far.

I would be ok with this group too if perfectly healthy, but there's a huge risk here with this group, in my opinion.

[doom88]

I know injuries are a huge risk, but consider that reasonable. I'm okay with the existing AHL call ups to give them a chance at the NHL level. It's the only way to see who is made of what.

[Clarke2Leach]

you mentioned age, not draft position. and, there are a lot more 20 year olds who can cut it nowadays than before.

and, the point i keep trying to make is that Couturier's weak skating will never allow him to be a top 6 forward (sadly, his speed and explosiveness are insensitive to age: either you have it at this point, or you dont).

the fact is, which people keep skating around, he lacks explosiveness and speed and seemingly desire. a very bad combo.

Not really. They were talking on HNIC during the Leafs/Habs game about Gallagher being drafted 147th. 122 players drafted in front of him have yet to step on the ice in the NHL.

[Adamflyers]

i dont care about

his play has regressed, not improved, with age. i hate to see how lethargic and slow will be when he is 22.

Yeah, I mean sophomore slumps are unheard of! That never happens in the NHL!

[flyercanuck]

I think for now on any draft pick who isn't a bonafide star within 2 years of being drafted the Flyers should just send them packing. Then we won't have to worry about being in the position we are now...we'll be picking 1st or 2nd every single year.

[brelic]

I think for now on any draft pick who isn't a bonafide star within 2 years of being drafted the Flyers should just send them packing. Then we won't have to worry about being in the position we are now...we'll be picking 1st or 2nd every single year.

Hey, don't discount the Pens model!

In all seriousness, how has that not worked for Edmonton?? It seems like we've heard that the Oilers are going to be a powerhouse "next year" for the past 8 years.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

They have no D or goaltending...lol. And people call LA Flyers west.

[brelic]

@brelic

They have no D or goaltending...lol. And people call LA Flyers west.

LOL, they're just like us but with flashier prospects.

I'm sure Homer will trade Stolarz to Edmonton for a 2nd and two 4ths. Frank would think that's a great deal.

[Bertmega]

I am trying to wrap my head around this thread. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk, but isn't it a little odd to single out one player on this entire team?

Looking back (and with the help of the internets) let's see how other #1 eighth over all draft picks panned out:

1) Alex Burmistrov (not too much happening there)

2) Scott Glennie (BUST)

3) Mikkel Bodker (respectable, but not tearing it up)

4) Zach Hamill (AHL)

5) Peter Mueller (may have finally found himself in Florida)

6) Devin Setoguchi (one good year in SJ)

With that said, at the cost of Couturier and the potential upside, I highly doubt he should be moved. Let's see what he has next season with some permanent line mates before jumping to the bust conclusion.

[radoran]

Wow wonder when the trade Giroux threads will start popping up....

Well, his value may never be higher

[flyercanuck]

Wow wonder when the trade Giroux threads will start popping up.... This whole team looks like **** growing pains guys please give this core more time...

\

There were more than a few people calling Giroux a bust after he hadn't made the Flyers halfway through his 3rd year following his draft.

[aziz]

And I was one of them. Maybe not a bust, exactly, but very limited expectations.

Still, it is true that couturier is a bad skater. And he has looked disinterested this season. And his production is down. And his +/- has taken a 30 point swing, leaving him right next to the worst on the team among forwards. There are reasons to worry. Not reasons to bail, but he hasn't been encouraging in any way this season.

[doom88]

And I was one of them. Maybe not a bust, exactly, but very limited expectations.

Still, it is true that couturier is a bad skater. And he has looked disinterested this season. And his production is down. And his +/- has taken a 30 point swing, leaving him right next to the worst on the team among forwards. There are reasons to worry. Not reasons to bail, but he hasn't been encouraging in any way this season.

Maybe that's what happens when you live with Briere? Must be all that take-out food.

[caluso]

I am trying to wrap my head around this thread. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk, but isn't it a little odd to single out one player on this entire team?

Looking back (and with the help of the internets) let's see how other #1 eighth over all draft picks panned out:

1) Alex Burmistrov (not too much happening there)

2) Scott Glennie (BUST)

3) Mikkel Bodker (respectable, but not tearing it up)

4) Zach Hamill (AHL)

5) Peter Mueller (may have finally found himself in Florida)

6) Devin Setoguchi (one good year in SJ)

With that said, at the cost of Couturier and the potential upside, I highly doubt he should be moved. Let's see what he has next season with some permanent line mates before jumping to the bust conclusion.

I started the thread so allow me to clarify: under no circumstances do I hold Couturier responsible for the team's wretched play this year. Gomer, Laviolette, Hartnell, Briere, Read, Coburn, Meszaros, Giroux, Bruzgalov, et al... all have a hand in this mess. Voracek and Simmonds are probably the only players who played up to their expectations.

However, I watch every game, either in person or on TV, and the guy who jumped out at me for his indifferent, lazy, sloppy, disinterested, poor play was Couturier. He has been a turnover machine, he loses almost every puck battle and his lack of hustle has astounded me. The last straw was watching him against Buffalo: he was terrible! Coincidentally, after the first period, the announcers also singled out Couturier for his poor play, laziness and lack of hustle.

I just don't believe the hype and I want it on record that I think he has a very low ceiling and he would be better served sitting and earning his ice time instead of having it handed to him because he is a "core member of the future." And, If that's the case, we are in trouble.

Additionally, I am amazed he still gets time on the PK, as he has been reduced to standing in no man's land - challenging no one - while the power play happens around him.

Edited April 16, 2013 by caluso

[mojo1917]

@caluso

I'm surprised he's been on the PK also, that's where I (and everyone else) notice his skating.

I also know he's not done growing and think he will improve rather than get worse, I don't know about his mental make-up other than things I've read, and every thing I've read about him points to "quality North American kid".

We will see how he pans out untill then , you think he's a bum... Noted.

[Dynamo 47]

he is not craig mctavish either.

if you can't see how bad he is out there, i can't help you.

I admit he is struggling but the potential is there. I honestly think that we might not have won that first round playoff series with the Pens were it not for his defensive work on Malkin; he was that good defensively.

He is not going to be another Lindros and perhaps not even another Primeau but I think he can develop into a shutdown center who with strength and additional weight can have a Joel Ottot type career and that would not be a bad thing in my book.

[ruxpin]

please watch the first 10 minutes of tonight's game and watch how weak he is on his skates.

he has the strength of a waif out there; not only is he slow, he's weak and passive.

i know, i know, he's a shutdown center. please, spare me the nonsense.

I really didn't have a comment either way until I noticed toughfighter83 agreed with you. C'mon, even you have to strongly rethink your position when toughfighter agrees with you.

Couturier--you might be right. I don't know. But I'm willing to give a 20 year old some more time.

[murraycraven]

I am trying to wrap my head around this thread. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk, but isn't it a little odd to single out one player on this entire team?

Looking back (and with the help of the internets) let's see how other #1 eighth over all draft picks panned out:

1) Alex Burmistrov (not too much happening there)

2) Scott Glennie (BUST)

3) Mikkel Bodker (respectable, but not tearing it up)

4) Zach Hamill (AHL)

5) Peter Mueller (may have finally found himself in Florida)

6) Devin Setoguchi (one good year in SJ)

With that said, at the cost of Couturier and the potential upside, I highly doubt he should be moved. Let's see what he has next season with some permanent line mates before jumping to the bust conclusion.

Bert... I think you are very logical with your line of thinking. Am I concerned about Cooter? Yes... Am I ready to throw in the towel and trade him? Absolutely not. The kid needs time to develop his game and his body. My biggest concern is his skating and play along the boards this season. He, along w/ a lot of other players on the Flyers, are just passive along the boards.. The puck battles are terrible!

He is never going to be a great skater but I still think he can imnprove b/c he is so young. At some point the Flyers are going to have to commit to him and put him on a better line. If Jrs provides any insight this kid can put the puck in the net. Playing on the 4th line is not helping his development right now.

We all know the Flyers are not making the playoffs so why not put him on a line w/ good players? Give him a confidence boost and see what the kid can do... he has been playing better lately. It is way too early to write Cooter off...

[brelic]

I admit he is struggling but the potential is there. I honestly think that we might not have won that first round playoff series with the Pens were it not for his defensive work on Malkin; he was that good defensively.

Malkin did get 8 points in 6 games, though I can't remember how much of that was away from Couturier.

I remember that series well, and yes, Coots was very impressive in shadowing Malkin, but I think it has been overstated and accepted as canon.

I think he'll be a very good hockey player. And I think defense will be his specialty. The major question is how much he can develop his offensive game too. Maybe another Jordan Staal type, which is not a bad thing if a slight disappointment.

[Bertmega]

@murraycraven

The thing that I like is he is cheap and the Flyers have a lot of time to develop him since there is a log jam at center.

I agree with the right line mates he could be a great addition to the team. I'd like to see a a young winger and a vet play along side him.

If they opted to re-up Gagne (vet presence) and acquired a decent net presence forward (like Hartnell, but can skate), I think he'll be set.

The way I look at it is, all it will take is a very bounces to go his way and the kid will be on fire.

[toughfighter83]

Bert... I think you are very logical with your line of thinking. Am I concerned about Cooter? Yes... Am I ready to throw in the towel and trade him? Absolutely not. The kid needs time to develop his game and his body. My biggest concern is his skating and play along the boards this season. He, along w/ a lot of other players on the Flyers, are just passive along the boards.. The puck battles are terrible!

He is never going to be a great skater but I still think he can imnprove b/c he is so young. At some point the Flyers are going to have to commit to him and put him on a better line. If Jrs provides any insight this kid can put the puck in the net. Playing on the 4th line is not helping his development right now.

We all know the Flyers are not making the playoffs so why not put him on a line w/ good players? Give him a confidence boost and see what the kid can do... he has been playing better lately. It is way too early to write Cooter off...

this is on why i want lavy gone, he has no clue on what he's doing, he keeps changing lines and screwing up the chemistry with the young players, young players should be around vets not other young players, with chicago, the coach mixes young players with vets, that's how they get better.

[murraycraven]

this is on why i want lavy gone, he has no clue on what he's doing, he keeps changing lines and screwing up the chemistry with the young players, young players should be around vets not other young players, with chicago, the coach mixes young players with vets, that's how they get better.

You bring up a great point... I have defended Lavy for a long time but I can completely see where your frustration comes from... I hated when my Coaches constantly screwed with lines... You just never develop any consistancy and feel for your linemates. If I am Lavy I plug the kid on the second line and give him some real quality time (chances too). The season is over so wjy not make Cooter and Schenn the focal points from here on out? Sink or swim... given the opportunity to play w/ better players is only going to help them.