mng815 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Why would the Leafs want to have the contracts of both Lecavalier AND Phaneuf?doesnt hurt to pick up the phone and ask. its pretty obvious whoever takes him the flyers are eating some of the money anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) he surely wasn't horrible last season especially when he was healthy.Just lazy. Truthfully, I am on your boat. Having your name bantered about for trades has to sting. I also would like to believe that both Berube and Hextall had a heart to heart and stated "we gave you allot, now deliver". That includes conditioning. Edited July 4, 2014 by Vanflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 doesnt hurt to pick up the phone and ask. its pretty obvious whoever takes him the flyers are eating some of the money anyway Thats a valid point, but it will not be greater than a buyout amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNate Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 What about trading Laughton? Even if they trade Vinny he will be blocked by Schenn and Couturier and there's no point in bringing him up to play 4th line minutes...not sure what his value is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 What about trading Laughton? why? and for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNate Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 why? and for what?Because he doesn't have a spot on the team for the foreseeable future unless you want to give him 10 minutes a game on the 4th line and stunt his development. I'm not saying they should but if they could use him in some sort of package to get a legit winger to play with giroux and voracek than I'd be all for it. As I said before, I'm not sure he has much value at this point so I don't know what kind of deal would be possible. The flyers currently have a logjam at center and as long as giroux, vinny, schenn and couturier are here there is no room for Laughton. I suppose he could switch positions but I believe he's a natural fit at center if I'm not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Because he doesn't have a spot on the team for the foreseeable future unless you want to give him 10 minutes a game on the 4th line and stunt his development. I'm not saying they should but if they could use him in some sort of package to get a legit winger to play with giroux and voracek than I'd be all for it. As I said before, I'm not sure he has much value at this point so I don't know what kind of deal would be possible. The flyers currently have a logjam at center and as long as giroux, vinny, schenn and couturier are here there is no room for Laughton. I suppose he could switch positions but I believe he's a natural fit at center if I'm not mistaken.What about letting Laughton develop his game in the AHL next year if he is going to be pegged to play on the 4th line where as he'd play first line minutes in the AHL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Honestly, if nothing changes, it's not that bad. It's basically the same team as last year. Move Schenn to the top line, VLC as 2nd line center, and you're done. Not ideal, but whatever. Who would have ever guessed that this contract would turn out so poorly? It seems Hextall has options when it comes to VLC, 1) Like you said move Schenn to LW on Giroux's line and keep Vinny as 2nd line centre2) Maybe try and trade for E.Kane maybe trading the Schenn brothers to get him and keep Vinny as a 2nd line centre3) Keep Schenn as a 2nd line centre and move Vinny as a 4th line centre4) Maybe trade Vinny to Nashville (possibly) for a draft pick but have to retain $2 million per year of the cap hit5) Buy him out and he'll be on the books for the next 8 years or wait til after next season to buy him out Finally, grab one of his old goalie sticks and slash Holmgren across the legs and tell him thanks for being a dumbass in signing Vinny to this stupid contract and handcuffing the Flyers with cap this season and maybe next year also depending on what the cap will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNate Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 What about letting Laughton develop his game in the AHL next year if he is going to be pegged to play on the 4th line where as he'd play first line minutes in the AHL.I'm fine with that as well, but eventually he's gonna need a spot on the big club and if Schenn and Couturier continue to develop the way flyers fans hope and dream about than the only way he makes the team is if he switches positions. That could work as well, I don't know enough about Laughtons game to predict wether or not he can switch from center to wing, but from everything I've heard/read, he's better off sticking at center. I'm more or less just thinking out loud here, I'm curious as to what kind of deal we could make using Laughton as the main trade chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 doesnt hurt to pick up the phone and ask. its pretty obvious whoever takes him the flyers are eating some of the money anyway Could easily be that Hextall picked up the phone and asked Vinny's agent who said "yeah, we're not accepting a trade to Tronno, thanks" That's what "No Movement Clause" means. Yes, sure, they can say "you're going to play fourth line" and Vinny can slough it off, play uninspiried hockey and be a general detriment to the team thereafter. Because there is nothing that forces him to accept either a trade or an AHL demotion. #homercoaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Why no talk of Toronto for possible Vinny destination? Because Burke is no longer GM there? Edited July 5, 2014 by B21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 VLC was already paid his bonus by the Flyers, don't hold back salary too. He was good when healthy last year, and due to cap calculations, a bargain NHL team would get a guy whose cap hit is greater than actual dollars currently paid. Basically, VLC has NHL and business value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 VLC was already paid his bonus by the Flyers, don't hold back salary too. He was good when healthy last year, and due to cap calculations, a bargain NHL team would get a guy whose cap hit is greater than actual dollars currently paid. Basically, VLC has NHL and business value. By every report I've seen, the sticking point was other teams wanting the Flyers to retain salary. It may not be "right" but given abject weakness of the Flyers' negotiating position, there is no need for another team to "bail out" the Flyers. That's the "business value" of the proposition at the moment. Things can change as the season progresses, but that doesn't solve the Lecavalier Problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The only way I'd take such a declining asset is if Hextall is paying a healthy chunk of his salary. He wasn't given tough competition, was gifted generous zone starts, and all of his teammates did better away from him than with him last year: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=242&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Trade B. Schenn and whatever for a LW and put VLC as 2nd line center and hope for the best.Holmgren forced his head coaches to play too many guys out of positionOr the guys could, you know, practice at the winger position and realize it takes a different approach. Sharks run with 9 centers and 5 of them play wing. Not sure why it is such an issue for the Flyers. Let's you cheat on faceoffs, and wingers have a bit less defensive responsibility than a center. Pavelski, Marleau, Wingels,Sheppard, Hertl......All wingers who are natural centers. Kennedy and Burish are the only two centers who fail at wing for the sharks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 VLC played well in he early season. Did not recover very well from an injury. Not sure but I thought he played with back problems most of the season. JMO but I think if they can't make any good moves with him then as somebody else suggested put him back at Center on the 2nd or 3rd line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 VLC played well in he early season. Did not recover very well from an injury. Not sure but I thought he played with back problems most of the season. JMO but I think if they can't make any good moves with him then as somebody else suggested put him back at Center on the 2nd or 3rd line. In the first 20 games of the season, he scored 14 points, but the Flyers were getting their lunch handed to them while he was on the ice: CorsiFor% 43.9 (-7.23% relative to teammates)GoalsFor% 44% (meaning the opposition scored 56% of the goals while he was on the ice) The only good stretch he had were games 60 thru 69 for him, when the Flyers broke even while he was on the ice. That's a lot of money to pay for a guy whose best run was 9 games of sawing off the opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 In the first 20 games of the season, he scored 14 points, but the Flyers were getting their lunch handed to them while he was on the ice: CorsiFor% 43.9 (-7.23% relative to teammates)GoalsFor% 44% (meaning the opposition scored 56% of the goals while he was on the ice) The only good stretch he had were games 60 thru 69 for him, when the Flyers broke even while he was on the ice. That's a lot of money to pay for a guy whose best run was 9 games of sawing off the opposition.Thanks for the stats but my point was he played out of position most of the time. You can teach an old dog new tricks but not so much with old hockey players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Or the guys could, you know, practice at the winger position and realize it takes a different approach.Sharks run with 9 centers and 5 of them play wing. Not sure why it is such an issue for the Flyers. Let's you cheat on faceoffs, and wingers have a bit less defensive responsibility than a center.Pavelski, Marleau, Wingels,Sheppard, Hertl......All wingers who are natural centers. Kennedy and Burish are the only two centers who fail at wing for the sharks.An interesting point and perspective. It kind of flies in the face of some schools of thought regarding the Flyers, but certainly shows it can work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 By every report I've seen, the sticking point was other teams wanting the Flyers to retain salary.It may not be "right" but given abject weakness of the Flyers' negotiating position, there is no need for another team to "bail out" the Flyers.That's the "business value" of the proposition at the moment. Things can change as the season progresses, but that doesn't solve the Lecavalier Problem.Okay, something I have to look up later...hold back salary in real dollars, or cap dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Okay, something I have to look up later...hold back salary in real dollars, or cap dollars? Both. You can't hold back one or the other, and they have to be in the same proportion through all remaining years (ie, not 50% this year, 25% next, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Both. You can't hold back one or the other, and they have to be in the same proportion through all remaining years (ie, not 50% this year, 25% next, etc).CBA link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 CBA link?http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-retained-salary-transactions-work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-retained-salary-transactions-workGood enough and interesting, thank you. The only worry I would have is if the subsequent team buys out VLC, and hangs the Flyers for 50%. Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Kennedy and Burish are the only two centers who fail at wing for the sharks.Kennedy has played wing his whole NHL career. His failing has nothing to do with position. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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