TSN Power Rankings - Flyers 25th!

[Adamflyers]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-power-rankings-october-7-2014-1.100297

 

"No team is going to fare particularly well without their best defenceman and that's the prospect the Flyers face, which makes it all the more vital that G Steve Mason continue to play at the level he has since joining the Flyers. If he reverts to previous form, and the likes of Andrew MacDonald and Michael Del Zotto don't shore up the back end, then the Flyers are going to have to outgun the opposition to win and that's a tough game to play. It would put a lot of pressure on Claude Giroux and Jakub Voracek, the high-end forwards who might help the Flyers outscore their shortcomings."

 

I know this is one person's opinion and that these rankings mean jack, but I do think they are over-reacting to the loss of Kimmo for the year.  Kimmo, is a shell of his former self and while he is still a good defenseman, I am very surprised to see how low they put us mainly due to his absence.  They make a fair point in saying that if Mason doesn't have a good year, it could really sink the team, but I think you can say that with or without Kimmo at this stage of his career. I really don't believe that his absence makes the team an automatic playoff miss.  Combine his absence with a Mason injury or poor season and then I would be inclined to agree.  By ranking them that low before any games are played, they are assuming we won't see the same high level of play out of Mason as we did last year.

 

LETS GO FLYERS!!!  Prove them wrong!

[flyercanuck]

@Adamflyers

 

You're right in that Timonen isn't what he used to be. The fact that he's still our best defenceman speaks volumes as to how mediocre our bliueline is. I can see the Flyers ending up anywhere from the 5th or 6th seed in the east all the way to somewhere around where this guy is calling them....depending on that blueline.

 

I don't consider the makeup of this team (presently) as a real contender. As long as they compete, there are worst things in the world than ending up 25th in a draft like this one coming up.

[Adamflyers]

@Adamflyers

 

You're right in that Timonen isn't what he used to be. The fact that he's still our best defenceman speaks volumes as to how mediocre our bliueline is. I can see the Flyers ending up anywhere from the 5th or 6th seed in the east all the way to somewhere around where this guy is calling them....depending on that blueline.

 

I don't consider the makeup of this team (presently) as a real contender. As long as they compete, there are worst things in the world than ending up 25th in a draft like this one coming up.

I agree, there is that distinct possibility that they could end up this low, but it really depends on Mason.  If he can stay healthy and can provide a high level of play, then I think this team has the scoring to finish as a 6-8 seed.  As the roster stands right now, I agree that this team is not ready to contend.  I feel that ranking them 25 before a single game is played is assuming too much right now though.  

 

"The fact that he's still our best defenceman speaks volumes as to how mediocre our bliueline is."

 

That quote speaks the truth 20 million times over! 

[murraycraven]

agree FC...

 

I posted earlier that I do believe the defense is the "factor" this year.   Although Kimmo is old and has lost a step he is still a very good and smart player.   Losing him is essentially taking a piss-poor defense and forcing those same players to play in roles they are not situated for...   McDud is now mving up to the #1 pairing which frankly scares the hell out of me.   Coburn, when paired with Kimmo, was at the very least servicable.  

 

This season is going to come down to defense IMO.  If they falter I think it could be a year that we get a good draft spot for next years draft.   IMO it could go either way but if the preseason is any indication the defense is *the* issue.   We are now banking on a players to overperform from thier intended roles and if anyone can step up is the major question. 

 

I think 24 is a bit ridiculous, but in all honesty, this defense could kill the season.   Mason cant be counted on for everything... the defense will need to step up this year to make the playoffs.  Someone needs to step up for this Team to have a good season.   They are not true SC competitors and I view it as a transition year anyway...

 

In the end this defense could be an all out nightmare...   hope it is not true but trying to be realistic with this current group.   Coburn and McDud as the #1 pairing is scary.  In the end you can count on Grossman getting hurt so maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel in terms of our defensive prospects being called up.  

[AJgoal]

While I agree with your point about Timonen, I think it's less the loss of him as the lack of a #1 defenseman that they're alluding to. The Flyers are playing a defense with a bunch of #3-4 types, and while that can work, you have to have the offensive firepower to counterbalance it. Last year the Flyers were 10th in goals scored, and hopefully Schenn, Couturier, and Simmonds continue to improve, as they took a step back with the Hartnell trade. They were only +1 GF vs. GA, so he's right, if you don't find someone to step up and log quality minutes, you're going to take a hit there. I know advanced stats only tell part of the story, but the Flyers were a dead even possession team last year, and have lost two of their few plus possession players in Hartnell and Timonen. They also scored 49% of the even strength goals in their games last season. That's not indicative of a team that's going to go far.

 

A few other tidbits: The Flyers ranked fifth in neutral zone faceoff percentage last year. That fell to 16th for offensive zone faceoffs, and 21st for defensive zone faceoffs.

 

This year you need to see growth of the kids. If you don't, the Flyers will end up right where this guy puts them. If you do, I think they can eke their way into the playoffs, but the defense is going to be tough to overcome on the way.

[murraycraven]

While I agree with your point about Timonen, I think it's less the loss of him as the lack of a #1 defenseman that they're alluding to. The Flyers are playing a defense with a bunch of #3-4 types, and while that can work, you have to have the offensive firepower to counterbalance it. Last year the Flyers were 10th in goals scored, and hopefully Schenn, Couturier, and Simmonds continue to improve, as they took a step back with the Hartnell trade. They were only +1 GF vs. GA, so he's right, if you don't find someone to step up and log quality minutes, you're going to take a hit there. I know advanced stats only tell part of the story, but the Flyers were a dead even possession team last year, and have lost two of their few plus possession players in Hartnell and Timonen. They also scored 49% of the even strength goals in their games last season. That's not indicative of a team that's going to go far.

 

A few other tidbits: The Flyers ranked fifth in neutral zone faceoff percentage last year. That fell to 16th for offensive zone faceoffs, and 21st for defensive zone faceoffs.

 

This year you need to see growth of the kids. If you don't, the Flyers will end up right where this guy puts them. If you do, I think they can eke their way into the playoffs, but the defense is going to be tough to overcome on the way.

 

 

great post AJ...   agree with everything.  

[Adamflyers]

While I'm not an overly "rah rah" guy, I think they're assuming too much ranking them, this low.  It's is being assumed that Mason will falter and the young O will either regress of stay the same.  I could understand putting them as a bubble playoff team and maybe even a non playoff team, but they are playing with virtually the same blue line as last year, less Kimmo, which of course is nothing to brush aside.

 

Hartnell will be missed for his grit and work in front of the net, but being shorthanded less should help!  The D is what it is, average at best.  Score goals and get good goaltending and this team should be able to "compete" in a weak East.  

[murraycraven]

should be able to compete in a weak East.

 

and there is the key:  the East is pretty week so that will play a factor.  

[intheslot]

It's a Challange.!!! I don't Think one d-man is going to drop us down to 25th or propell this squad into the cup finals..

 It is what it is Think they will be under est.mated which is good for us.  They will be top 5 in the east ...

[The Quigster]

25th sounds about right to me.You have to ask yourself objectively, who is going to score and who is going to play defense? After Giroux the bottom falls out on natural scorers,Plunk! The Flyers haven't been able to move any of their defensemen,so they are stuck with this crew of duds. Add that all up and get 25th in the league,sounds reasonable to me.

[idahophilly]

My god! The puck hasn't even dropped for the first game and other than few, the negativity is rampant. 25th!!!??? Not even close. But talk to me in March/April.

 

Anyone watch the movie "Kelly's Heroes"? Stop with the negative vibes!!! Anyone who has seen it will get it....

 

Come on guys, GO FLYERS, no looking back (except at that cheese steak at concessions).

[idahophilly]

and there is the key:  the East is pretty week so that will play a factor.  

I still don't buy the east is as bad as they say. We beat the crapolla out of each other way more than the west. These east teams match up equally and thus it evens out more. By the 3rd/4th round the teams in the east got nothing left.

[murraycraven]

For Christ sake I kinda agree with the quig-meister!

THe saving grace is the east is wide open and there are no runaway teams. People undervalue Kimmo even in his declined stage. Defense is the key here... Let's see if they can perform. If not we get a good draft pick in a deep draft and have some very good prospects on the way....

Game on... People being realistic with their thoughts is not negativity for **** sake. It is about evaluating where the team is at...

[murraycraven]

I still don't buy the east is as bad as they say. We beat the crapolla out of each other way more than the west. These east teams match up equally and thus it evens out more. By the 3rd/4th round the teams in the east got nothing left.

Lol... You do know we have to beat someone in the east to play the west in the playoffs right? Great moral victory down the stretch last year but we are not an elite team... Nowhere near elite...

The east is open... The rags took a step back and the pens I would say are pretty much the same if not worse. Bruins have issues with the cap and are getting older. Noone in the east is running away with it... And no one can compete with the powerhouses in the West in a series...

Not negativity... Reality.

[pilldoc]

My god! The puck hasn't even dropped for the first game and other than few, the negativity is rampant. 25th!!!??? Not even close. But talk to me in March/April.

 

Anyone watch the movie "Kelly's Heroes"? Stop with the negative vibes!!! Anyone who has seen it will get it....

 

Come on guys, GO FLYERS, no looking back (except at that cheese steak at concessions).

 

 

Great movie!  I own it on DVD.  Just one of those movies that you either love it or hate it.  Me personally, I think it is great.

[Vanflyer]

They make a fair point in saying that if Mason doesn't have a good year, it could really sink the team, but I think you can say that with or without Kimmo at this stage of his career.

 

And / or that the Flyers D is just that damn awful.

 

I think 25th is a bit harsh.

[pilldoc]

I don't put too much stock into pre-season rankings.  It just an arbitrary number they assign to a team.  Just like Pre-Season Collge Polls...they don't mean a thing.  Look at last week and how many top 10 ten teams lost.  you get my point. 

 

The writers probably looked at how the team finished last year then compared that to all the changes over the off season and then compared them to the rest of the league and came up with a number.  After all that is all that it is ... a number.  They could have said #20 and you know what we would still be debating it.  There is no differece being ranked at #25 or # 20 or # 30.  It still means this is, in their opinion befor the season even starts, a mediocre team.  Is that really so shocking?  Many of us have been saying that for weeks now.  The achilles heel for this team really is the blue-line....but who am I to say that.  We all knew that anyway. 

 

As has been astutely mentioned above, the play of the blue-line will make or break this team.  Mason can't bail them out all the time, nor can we expect the offense to score 4+ goals every night.   When you depend on McDud and Coburn as your top pairing, you are going to have troubles with your defense.  They simply are not a #1 / #2 defensive pairing.  Sure Kimmo was a loss, but really how much higher would you have ranked this team?  #20...#19...maybe as high as #18?  Even with Kimmo this defense was hurting.  Take him out if the equation it is no wonder the writers placed the Flyers at #25. 

 

Yes I know the arguement....but they haven't played a game yet.  Correct.  That is why pre-ranking teams before the season starts is as useless as a parka in death valley.  I don't put any stock in them and quite frankly neither should any of us.....after all it is just a number.

 

(I'm stepping down from my soapbox now)

[Vanflyer]

As long as they compete, there are worst things in the world than ending up 25th in a draft like this one coming up.

 

Also, I think you have to take this list with a grain of salt. The list has Phoenix ranked 26th. While perhaps a dark horse, I have Phoenix winning their division, but I am not getting paid for my opinion, so what do I know?

 

They also have Washington ranked 21st. I have washington as a top 15.

 

I think this article is just a pot stirrer. Nothing more.

[King Knut]

I agree completely.

I'll be happy to read what this person says when the sky doesn't fall in Philly.

Kimmo was going to be playing a reduced role this year. That much was clear. He already played significantly fewer minutes last year.

It'll be a challenge, but I don't think it's a horrific impossibility that they just might be half decent anyway.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-power-rankings-october-7-2014-1.100297

"No team is going to fare particularly well without their best defenceman and that's the prospect the Flyers face, which makes it all the more vital that G Steve Mason continue to play at the level he has since joining the Flyers. If he reverts to previous form, and the likes of Andrew MacDonald and Michael Del Zotto don't shore up the back end, then the Flyers are going to have to outgun the opposition to win and that's a tough game to play. It would put a lot of pressure on Claude Giroux and Jakub Voracek, the high-end forwards who might help the Flyers outscore their shortcomings."

I know this is one person's opinion and that these rankings mean jack, but I do think they are over-reacting to the loss of Kimmo for the year. Kimmo, is a shell of his former self and while he is still a good defenseman, I am very surprised to see how low they put us mainly due to his absence. They make a fair point in saying that if Mason doesn't have a good year, it could really sink the team, but I think you can say that with or without Kimmo at this stage of his career. I really don't believe that his absence makes the team an automatic playoff miss. Combine his absence with a Mason injury or poor season and then I would be inclined to agree. By ranking them that low before any games are played, they are assuming we won't see the same high level of play out of Mason as we did last year.

LETS GO FLYERS!!! Prove them wrong!

[brelic]

Basically, what they're saying is that we're better than Florida, Carolina, and Buffalo in the East. And that's it.

 

That is a bit harsh, but honestly, it's not that far off - that puts us 13th in the conference, and if you figure that there will be somewhere around 10 points separating 13th from 8th (like last year), it's not that crazy. It represents 5 wins. Subtract Hartnell and Timonen, and you could make the argument that they were responsible for at least 2 or 3 wins last year (say, a Hartnell hat trick or a great game by Timonen). Can Umberger offset Hartnell? Maybe, though I'm not convinced. And on defense, well, I think Streit is showing great promise based on his preseason. If he carries that offense over, he might be able to win us a few games. 

[Irishjim]

if the TSN dude is correct we are in the mcdavid sweep stakes (wouldn't that chap ricks bum).. but i disagree with his take on kimmo is a major loss..there was a strong chance he wasn't coming back anyway.. i feel we're gonna see alot of last year and end up with a similar record.

 

teams ahead of us on these rankings 6 standout as you might wanna rethink that skippy...wash and nashville as it stands today have the wrong type of players on there current roster for their coaches playstyle..thats gonna take time to adjust. what exactly did new jersey do in the off season that made them better

 

Ottawa, Calgary and Winnipeg they have better then us..those 3 have far more issues then the flyers.

 

this ranking is about as accurate as a college preseason poll.. NOT

[idahophilly]

No worries then. The bellemare era is upon us !

 

[ruxpin]

I don't put a lot of stock into power rankings.  It doesn't matter if it's pre-season, mid-season, or end of season, they're fun to kibitz about but they are entirely meaningless.  Even during the season, they don't reflect the standings.  So ultimately who cares?

 

But 25, until proven otherwise, is probably pretty accurate RIGHT NOW.  It's not a prediction of where they'll end up.  It's a statement of where they're starting out at.  And, frankly, there are entirely way too many question marks for this team to start them out much higher than that.

[OccamsRazor]

I don't put a lot of stock into power rankings.  It doesn't matter if it's pre-season, mid-season, or end of season, they're fun to kibitz about but they are entirely meaningless.  Even during the season, they don't reflect the standings.  So ultimately who cares?

 

But 25, until proven otherwise, is probably pretty accurate RIGHT NOW.  It's not a prediction of where they'll end up.  It's a statement of where they're starting out at.  And, frankly, there are entirely way too many question marks for this team to start them out much higher than that.

 

 

And they can't predict key injuries they can in a blink of an eye dramatically change the landscape. Hope for the best and expect the worst...you'll never go wrong.

[ruxpin]

And they can't predict key injuries they can in a blink of an eye dramatically change the landscape. Hope for the best and expect the worst...you'll never go wrong.

 

Yeah, that's the thing.  The power rankings aren't at all predictive, and I don't think they're intended to be.  It's supposed to be a current snapshot of perceived strengths and weaknesses based on recent track record.  They are a backward-looking exercise.  Before the season starts there IS no track record, obviously, so it's current perception based on paper and a little bit of play in preseason. Based on those things alone (paper and preseason play), if #25 isn't accurate it's a bit optimistic.