Luke Schenn: Stay or go?

[OccamsRazor]

I dreaming to expect more of a return for him?

Short answer? Yes...sadly. That is why i say keep him till the trade deadline his value will highest by then...if he isn't worth more then than he never will.....

[radoran]

I'll defer to you guys but...wow that's it? A lousy 2nd rd pick for a pretty decent albeit ocassionally braindead top-6 Dman.

 

I'm trying to talk it out and see what's out there. I do think that his value could be much different at the deadline that rightnow. I don't see anyone that would part with a 2nd for Schenn at this point. (also, his limited No Trade apparently kicked in this year)

 

I think we're both saying pretty much the same thing, just approaching it in different ways. .

 

You know how we do

[AJgoal]

Canoli, I think he'd fall right around a 2nd at the deadline, less if traded now. You might be able to squeeze a second later round pick out in the deal, but Luke probably tops out as a #4 on most squads that are going to make the playoffs, and I wouldn't think there'd be interest in a UFA-to-be from teams that look realistically at themselves and see themselves out. They're just not going to pay a premium for him. If he plays well this season, he'll garner more interest and a higher return, but then you're faced with the dilemma of keeping, trading, or letting him walk.

[Lindbergh31]

No, I dont want to see them lock up Schenn to join MacDud.   I would trade him now if someone was willing to send a 2nd round pick for him.  Again, I dont think he is a terrible player but I dont think he is an above average player either.   I think he *could* get better but honestly think he is about what he is going to be as far as development.  To Pods point - I really dont see a player that is committed to physical fitness and I really dont see a player that thinks the game.  

 

For the sake of throwing numbers out I would say he would get 4-4.5M on the open market.  

 

I sure as hell rather be paying JVR his contract than paying Schenn 5M a year...

Oh yes, one of Holmgren's greatest trades JVR would look good playing along with Giroux and Voracek. I wouldn't give Schenn more than what he's making now ($3.6 million) on a 3 year deal. If he finds a better deal elsewhere then send him on his way. The Flyers don't need another McDud type contract for a defenseman like Schenn. If Hexie is rebuilding or retooling through the draft then do it. If somehow he can find a sucker for Lecavalier then that would be awesome. The quick-fix era for the Flyers should be a thing of the past.

[JJMason33]

I don't understand why the Flyers aren't trying to use the Schenn Brothers to go after Skinner.  If they can dump Pronger's contract, get a "flyer" on Sam Gagner and get a 4th out of Nick Grossmann than Luke Schenn definitely has some value.  Brayden Schenn isnt the player Skinner is, but is isn't far off either.  Maybe you add a 2nd, and conditional 3rd if you have to, but your getting a top like LW for Giroux.

 

Skinner-Giroux-Voracek

Read-Couturier-Simmonds

Raffl-Umberger-Gagner

Bellemare-Laughton-White/Vandevelde/Lecavalier

 

Streit- Schultz

MacDonald- Del Zotto

Medvedev-Provorov

 

And we add about 300K in cap space.

[mojo1917]

Speak for yerself dumbass! jk

 

In the absence of an insider account, I have to assume that Luke is one of those guys that easily puts the weight on while taking it off is much more difficult. He's a bit "doughy" if you know what I mean. Put his target weight  (let's say 205-210 or something like that) in his contract with some incentives attached. I mean, honestly....

 

I think Luke works out the wrong way, he looks like a brick **** house , he's thickly muscled, which i think , he thinks helps him to play physically.

 

I think he's one of those guys that would see his performance on the ice increase if he were to change his exercise routine to more plyometric and aerobic  exercises.  His shoulders are wide his chest is broad at 230,  that would still be the case at 215 or 210 , plus i bet he'd be quicker.  I don't think his weight issue is a result of him pounding cheetos and beers, i think it's a result of too much weight lifting and not enough skating , stretching and explosive movements.

[Podein25]

I don't think his weight issue is a result of him pounding cheetos and beers, i think it's a result of too much weight lifting and not enough skating 

 

 

Yeah, you're probably right. You need strength, not muscle. Muscle is heavy and gets in the way. The Brindy problem. 

[King Knut]

Meltzer had a really good write up on Luke a few days ago: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=70112&blogger_id=45

Luke is probably the most tradeable piece on the Flyers blueline right now, given age, contract, and perceived value to the team (Teams would probably want Streit, but I'm not sure the Flyers want to part with him). So my question is, do you want to see the Flyers keep him, or trade him going into the season? As Meltzer states, he does do several things well. He is not a very good skater, but when he plays within himself, he can be an effective defenseman. He makes a good first pass, and is very effective physically and as a shot blocker. He and MDZ seemed pretty effective as a pairing. I'd prefer to keep him at least until the deadline and see if Hakstol can do anything with him.

I think you have to trade him and here's why...

Either he's going to look markedly much better this year under Halstol (which I believe) or he will not.

If he does, his contract will be up and we will not be able to afford resigning what has proven to be a quality player.

If he does not improve, we just dont resign him and get nothing in return.

It's a lose lose.

Alternatively if at deadline time we get a

sweetheart deal for Streit, I could see making that deal and then resigning L. Schenn.

Of course if last year suggests anything they could both be on new teams competing for the cup in June.

[canoli]

Either he's going to look markedly much better this year under Halstol (which I believe) or he will not.

If he does, his contract will be up and we will not be able to afford resigning what has proven to be a quality player.

 

well...how good of a year can he possibly have? Even if he has a great year $5mil has got to be his ceiling don't you think? Unless you're factoring in TD frenzy where some PO team due to injuries on their blueline really needs a top 4 D-man (assuming he's played the whole year like a solid top 4 defenseman that is).

 

Barring a PO-bound team overpaying I figure LSchenn will re-sign with the Flyers for <$5mil/year on a 4-year deal.

 

[edit: if Brayden gets traded before Luke that probably changes how Luke feels about staying in Philly)

[brelic]

Brayden Schenn isnt the player Skinner is, but is isn't far off either.

 

Then why trade for Skinner?

 

I haven't watched Skinner very much, so I don't know what he's like game in and game out, or whether or not he plays a 200-foot game or only from the red line out.

 

Looking purely at his numbers, he's been very up and down, peaking as an 18 year old. His +/- numbers are horrible, but that could be a function of his role, his linemates, or his entire team. I don't care enough about the Canes to have any clue about them. 

 

Any theories? So far, it seems clear that Skinner is a better goal scorer than Schenn, with two 30 goal seasons under his belt. Remarkable for a 23 year old.

 

Is he the kind of player that would do well under Hakstol? 

 

Brayden can certainly be a frustrating player, but he's shown slow and steady improvement every single year. Skinner is all over the map - awesome and awesomely bad. Who is the real Skinner?

[radoran]

Who is the real Skinner?

 

Armin Tamzarian

 

[brelic]

Armin Tamzarian

 

 

LOL, I had to look it up!

[murraycraven]

Then why trade for Skinner?

 

I haven't watched Skinner very much, so I don't know what he's like game in and game out, or whether or not he plays a 200-foot game or only from the red line out.

 

Looking purely at his numbers, he's been very up and down, peaking as an 18 year old. His +/- numbers are horrible, but that could be a function of his role, his linemates, or his entire team. I don't care enough about the Canes to have any clue about them. 

 

Any theories? So far, it seems clear that Skinner is a better goal scorer than Schenn, with two 30 goal seasons under his belt. Remarkable for a 23 year old.

 

Is he the kind of player that would do well under Hakstol? 

 

Brayden can certainly be a frustrating player, but he's shown slow and steady improvement every single year. Skinner is all over the map - awesome and awesomely bad. Who is the real Skinner?

 

 

I watched Skinner a lot and used to go to a ton of Hurricanes games when traveling with work.  Skinner is a very up and down player and frankly he seems to always get hurt at the worst times.  To me it makes no sense to trade for Skinner.  He has topped 30 goals twice (?) but then had years where he is not over 20.  I rather keep Schenn(s) than go after Skinner and give up assets... 

[radoran]

He has topped 30 goals twice (?) but then had years where he is not over 20.

 

Last year was his only year "under 20" - presuming one projects out his 13 in 42 games to 25 in 82 during the lockout-shortened season.

 

Seems like a fairly consistent 25-30 goal scorer from where I sit. Injuries are a concern, but with him locked up for $5.75M for three more after this season I wouldn't mind if Carolina wanted the Schenns for him.

 

That said - were I a Canes fan, I would go beserk.

[OccamsRazor]

I watched Skinner a lot and used to go to a ton of Hurricanes games when traveling with work.  Skinner is a very up and down player and frankly he seems to always get hurt at the worst times.  To me it makes no sense to trade for Skinner.  He has topped 30 goals twice (?) but then had years where he is not over 20.  I rather keep Schenn(s) than go after Skinner and give up assets...

And it's not even that he is just hurt but it's because he has had several IIRC concussions....so i'll pass....

[King Knut]

Luke Schenn is a goner after this season and possibly before. With Morin on the cusp what is the point of keeping Schenn around? Morin is a better skater and has a better skill set all around.

5 million for Fluke Schenn? Please...

Regardless of Morin, we will need Schenn's $$$cap room to pay Jake.

[OccamsRazor]

Regardless of Morin, we will need Schenn's $$$cap room to pay Jake.

 

 

It's honestly to hard to try and project with Brayden or even Luke for that matter without knowing the results of this upcoming years results i think by late February we will have more clarity on where these guys fit on this team going forward.

[King Knut]

It's honestly to hard to try and project with Brayden or even Luke for that matter without knowing the results of this upcoming years results i think by late February we will have more clarity on where these guys fit on this team going forward.

 

 

In either case, I don't expect either to sign for less money than they're currently getting.

[OccamsRazor]

In either case, I don't expect either to sign for less money than they're currently getting.

 

 

And they very well could both be gone at the trade deadline.

[King Knut]

And they very well could both be gone at the trade deadline.

 

Much more in line with what I'm thinking.

If Coburn fetched a first (and seemed to earn that in the PO's btw) who knows what Luke having a good year will fetch.  2 seconds maybe?  Of course if he really has a great year and looks like a totally different player I guess all bets are off.

[OccamsRazor]

Much more in line with what I'm thinking.

If Coburn fetched a first (and seemed to earn that in the PO's btw) who knows what Luke having a good year will fetch.  2 seconds maybe?  Of course if he really has a great year and looks like a totally different player I guess all bets are off.

This season i think will reveal a lot about this group...once Hak has had a chance to work with these guys and maybe give Hexy some more feedback on who he sees fitting his system and who is not.

The ones who don't will be moved out as soon as Hexy finds a suitable trade partner. But where they are in the playoff race with influence it alot it will hasten it or expidite it.

[jammer2]

  LUKE SUCKS.....get him out, any way you can.    Mr.Deer in headlights will never EVER have any kind of hockey sense. He skates like molasses. Not every guy on the defense needs to be a speed burner, but damn...they *have* to be able to get from point A to point B in an acceptable time....Luke can't do that....never could.

[flyerfan2]

  LUKE SUCKS.....get him out, any way you can.    Mr.Deer in headlights will never EVER have any kind of hockey sense. He skates like molasses. Not every guy on the defense needs to be a speed burner, but damn...they *have* to be able to get from point A to point B in an acceptable time....Luke can't do that....never could.

So your not a Luke fan ?

Yes he may not be the most gifted skater , but hardly in the category you want to put him in.

As for hockey sense I'd say Luke has plenty of that, you don't get to the NHL level without it.!

Luke brinks lots to the defense , first and foremost the size to deal with the bigger power forwards, something most of the flyers defense can't deal with physically.

He is a good shot blocker and moves the puck well also ,he makes good break out passes and reads the ice well in the defensive zone.

He also brings toughness to an other wise soft defense that doesn't physically scare anyone in the league.

 

If you can get by his skating you might just see everything else he brings to the table and the qualities he has over the rest of the blue liners.

[jammer2]

@flyerfan2  Well, it's not just me, most Flyer fans have been looking for ways to rid ourselves of this Luke mess, almost from the moment we acquired him. I think you are vastly overstating his skill sets and worth....he is flat out horrible.

 

 

Luke brinks lots to the defense , first and foremost the size to deal with the bigger power forwards, something most of the flyers defense can't deal with physically.

 

 Most power forwards just skate by him, like he's not even there.

[flyerfan2]

@flyerfan2  Well, it's not just me, most Flyer fans have been looking for ways to rid ourselves of this Luke mess, almost from the moment we acquired him. I think you are vastly overstating his skill sets and worth....he is flat out horrible.

 

 

 

 

 Most power forwards just skate by him, like he's not even there.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, you have your opinion and I have the right opinion.!