Absolutely Garbage Officiating By a Garbage League!

[SKiFit]

1 hour ago, JagerMeister said:

The league isn't biased against any teams. that's the end of it.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here -- because I essentially agree with your statement -- but how do explain a player's point-of-view such as Briere's who had played for other teams before coming to Philadelphia who basically stated that there is indeed a bias from the referees against the Flyers?

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, SKiFit said:

I'm just playing devil's advocate here -- because I essentially agree with your statement -- but how do explain a player's point-of-view such as Briere's who had played for other teams before coming to Philadelphia who basically stated that there is indeed a bias from the referees against the Flyers?

 

There's only one explanation for it, but some people have a lot of trouble admitting it.

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, JagerMeister said:

The league isn't biased against any teams. that's the end of it. There are many panthers fans that vocalize similar sentiments such as yours. The officiating just blows.

 

How is the fact that Panthers fans complain about stuff evidence of anything?  

 

Maybe they have a point?  No one's saying the Flyers are the ONLY team in the league to ever get the shaft.

 

Isn't it far more likely that it depends on a team by team, night by night basis?

 

These referees are only human and they grow up loving hockey and being fans themselves.  Are we seriously suggesting that they are not vulnerable to the same human prejudices that creep into all of our brains?

 

Of course there are prejudices at play.  It's naive to think otherwise.

[eleven24]

Ok, for as long as I can remember Flyers fans have claimed the refs are against them.

 

For as long as I can remember my teammates on any given team that I've ever played for, at one point or another, have said the refs are against them.

 

For as long as I can remember the EVERY parent of the kids I've coached under the age of 16 have said the refs are against us

 

For as long as I can remember EVERY player I've ever coached at one point or another has said the refs are against us.

 

 

See the pattern?

 

The grass isn't always greener.  The refs aren't picking sides.  Perception of the officials will always differ between two sides.

 

[King Knut]

19 minutes ago, eleven24 said:

Ok, for as long as I can remember Flyers fans have claimed the refs are against them.

 

For as long as I can remember my teammates on any given team that I've ever played for, at one point or another, have said the refs are against them.

 

For as long as I can remember the EVERY parent of the kids I've coached under the age of 16 have said the refs are against us

 

For as long as I can remember EVERY player I've ever coached at one point or another has said the refs are against us.

 

 

See the pattern?

 

The grass isn't always greener.  The refs aren't picking sides.  Perception of the officials will always differ between two sides.

 

 

Except when you have players who have played for a variety of teams and then they say that it's definitely the worst when they get to Philly, I think that's a little different don't you?

 

Also,  would any player in his right mind try to get away with a dive like this:

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level/watch-devil-take-amazing-dive-tuesday-vs-flyers

if he didn't know there was an existing prejudice against the team he's playing?  

 

[JagerMeister]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

How is the fact that Panthers fans complain about stuff evidence of anything?  

 

Maybe they have a point?  No one's saying the Flyers are the ONLY team in the league to ever get the shaft.

 

Isn't it far more likely that it depends on a team by team, night by night basis?

 

These referees are only human and they grow up loving hockey and being fans themselves.  Are we seriously suggesting that they are not vulnerable to the same human prejudices that creep into all of our brains?

 

Of course there are prejudices at play.  It's naive to think otherwise.

What im saying is, this feeling people have that their team is prejudiced against in some way is ubiquitous through many fans of all NHL teams. Look at Radorans comment. Perhaps the some of the officiating has a predilection towards certain teams. But the real problem is incompetence, not prejudice.

[JagerMeister]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

There's only one explanation for it, but some people have a lot of trouble admitting it.

Nice subtlety there...

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, JagerMeister said:

What im saying is, this feeling people have that their team is prejudiced against in some way is ubiquitous through many fans of all NHL teams. Look at Radorans comment. Perhaps the some of the officiating has a predilection towards certain teams. But the real problem is incompetence, not prejudice.

 

"DON'T THINK OF AN ELEPHANT!!"

 

Prejudice works on an unconscious level.  99% of the time, we don't even realize we're doing it.

Which is to say that no one's "trying" to screw over the Flyers.  They're doing it without realizing it because they're interpreting what they see on one end as less egregious and not worthy of a penalty and what they're seeing on the other end as more egregious and worthy of a penalty.  

Where the incompetence comes into play is not being able to put that aside to a greater degree and tell the difference except in extreme examples (Blandisi's dive the other night is a good example).

 

This is how Gudas gets a match penalty for a hit that isn't even a minor for another player.  They've been warned. "Look out, Gudas is probably going to take someone's head off tonight, you gotta look out for him and protect those players out there!"  So then when Gudas makes a hit... and the guy goes down and it's questionable or even a legit penalty, Gudas gets a misconduct and a major because they've been prejudiced ahead of time.

 

It's LEGISLATED prejudice in that instance.  

 

Incompetence is not seeing an off sides or noticing a trip.  Actually Seeing a trip and deciding it's not a penalty when one team does it and then deciding it IS a penalty when the other team does it... that's Prejudice.   By definition.  

 

If you're telling me, they legitimately aren't looking when Rinaldo makes the hit on Coots, but are only looking when Gudas makes the hit, I'd contend that's also attributable to prejudice because they're simply watching Gudas more closely because again, they've been warned that he is probably going to try to hurt someone tonight.

 

 

They're not out to get anyone because it's unconscious.  They don't even realize it's happening.  That's usually the way prejudice works.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JagerMeister]

12 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

"DON'T THINK OF AN ELEPHANT!!"

 

Prejudice works on an unconscious level.  99% of the time, we don't even realize we're doing it.

Which is to say that no one's "trying" to screw over the Flyers.  They're doing it without realizing it because they're interpreting what they see on one end as less egregious and not worthy of a penalty and what they're seeing on the other end as more egregious and worthy of a penalty.  

Where the incompetence comes into play is not being able to put that aside to a greater degree and tell the difference except in extreme examples (Blandisi's dive the other night is a good example).

 

This is how Gudas gets a match penalty for a hit that isn't even a minor for another player.  They've been warned. "Look out, Gudas is probably going to take someone's head off tonight, you gotta look out for him and protect those players out there!"  So then when Gudas makes a hit... and the guy goes down and it's questionable or even a legit penalty, Gudas gets a misconduct and a major because they've been prejudiced ahead of time.

 

It's LEGISLATED prejudice in that instance.  

 

Incompetence is not seeing an off sides or noticing a trip.  Actually Seeing a trip and deciding it's not a penalty when one team does it and then deciding it IS a penalty when the other team does it... that's Prejudice.   By definition.  

 

If you're telling me, they legitimately aren't looking when Rinaldo makes the hit on Coots, but are only looking when Gudas makes the hit, I'd contend that's also attributable to prejudice because they're simply watching Gudas more closely because again, they've been warned that he is probably going to try to hurt someone tonight.

 

 

They're not out to get anyone because it's unconscious.  They don't even realize it's happening.  That's usually the way prejudice works.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I have seen literally every fan of every team that I have followed complain about very similar issues to the ones your expressing right now. Is the league prejudiced against every team?

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, JagerMeister said:

 I have seen literally every fan of every team that I have followed complain about very similar issues to the ones your expressing right now. Is the league prejudiced against every team?

Probably, based on my descriptions above... at one time or another... yes.

 

But I believe some players and some teams are more frequently objects of this treatment.  That only makes sense.  

Everyone thinks they have bad days, but the guy whose car explodes arbitrarily and gets a bad diagnosis from the doctor after his wife dumps him is legitimately having a worse day than the guy who had a flat tire that made him late for spinning class.

 

From each perspective, it's a bummer and their own crappy experiences can't be changed, but looking at them both from anything approaching objectivity leaves one with the inevitable conclusion that one day was legitimately worse than the other.

[JagerMeister]

46 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Probably, based on my descriptions above... at one time or another... yes.

 

But I believe some players and some teams are more frequently objects of this treatment.  That only makes sense.  

Everyone thinks they have bad days, but the guy whose car explodes arbitrarily and gets a bad diagnosis from the doctor after his wife dumps him is legitimately having a worse day than the guy who had a flat tire that made him late for spinning class.

 

From each perspective, it's a bummer and their own crappy experiences can't be changed, but looking at them both from anything approaching objectivity leaves one with the inevitable conclusion that one day was legitimately worse than the other.

Very true, because out of all the teams I have followed, the Panthers are the most vocal about this prejudice against them.

[peter puck]

I don't think it's the worst but it is the most inconsistent. 

Could the two ref system be a big part in this inconsistency?

Calling Toronto is a joke because they have already proven they can't get it right even with the ability to look at the replays several times over.

[JagerMeister]

1 minute ago, peter puck said:

I don't think it's the worst but it is the most inconsistent. 

Could the two ref system be a big part in this inconsistency?

Calling Toronto is a joke because they have already proven they can't get it right even with the ability to look at the replays several times over.

So inconsistent that anyone outside of the actual officials are more often right... 

[Podein25]

9 minutes ago, peter puck said:

Could the two ref system be a big part in this inconsistency?

 

Yes. Time to get rid of the two refs. They just take up room on the ice. See Wideman, Dennis

[RJ8812]

This from Yandle the other night...

 

https://vine.co/v/ivInPdq6Prq

 

No penalty on the play....

[flyerrod]

And Flyers fans think the deck is stacked against us.....check out this CRAP against the Jets.....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/paul-maurice-ejected--jets--pissed-off--after-stralman-hit-054131363.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

St.Laurent (ref)should be suspended without pay for this maneuver and Paul Maurice should double down and RIP the officiating in that game when he is asked about it.. This is the kind of thing that needs to make world wide news.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, flyerrod said:

And Flyers fans think the deck is stacked against us.....check out this CRAP against the Jets.....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/paul-maurice-ejected--jets--pissed-off--after-stralman-hit-054131363.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

St.Laurent (ref)should be suspended without pay for this maneuver and Paul Maurice should double down and RIP the officiating in that game when he is asked about it.. This is the kind of thing that needs to make world wide news.

 

A travesty this league has become this sad. Then for the asshole to turn and laugh about it at the end of the video unreal. What will it take for the league to step and hold these guys accountable for ruining the game?

[fan4ever]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

A travesty this league has become this sad. Then for the asshole to turn and laugh about it at the end of the video unreal. What will it take for the league to step and hold these guys accountable for ruining the game?

 

OR -

 

I was shocked watching that vid and can't believe what went down.  It was really pissing me off (imagine if it was the Flyers and Hakstol) and then to see that smirk on that schmuck's face.........

 

What a joke!!!!!

[radoran]

19 hours ago, King Knut said:

Except when you have players who have played for a variety of teams and then they say that it's definitely the worst when they get to Philly, I think that's a little different don't you?

 

I'd be interested in seeing these quotes. A quick Google didn't turn up anything as specific as you are saying. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I'm not finding them with a quick search.

 

I did find Briere talking about the 2011 playoffs against the Sabres where he said a call against Mike Richards was "personal" on behalf of the refs.

 

And many, many articles about whether referees in (insert league here) were biased against (insert team name here).

 

That said, I certainly do believe there are "reputation" calls against individual players. I just don't believe they are more prevalent simply because they are wearing a Flyers jersey.

 

Again, I think that the officiating just generally blows.

[AJgoal]

5 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'd be interested in seeing these quotes. A quick Google didn't turn up anything as specific as you are saying. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I'm not finding them with a quick search.

 

I did find Briere talking about the 2011 playoffs against the Sabres where he said a call against Mike Richards was "personal" on behalf of the refs.

 

And many, many articles about whether referees in (insert league here) were biased against (insert team name here).

 

That said, I certainly do believe there are "reputation" calls against individual players. I just don't believe they are more prevalent simply because they are wearing a Flyers jersey.

 

Again, I think that the officiating just generally blows.

 

I had the same trouble finding the quote by Danny Briere, but I know I read it myself at one time.

[fan4ever]

Interesting Article about officiating by Paul Stewart....

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=74878

 

Thought this was interesting....

Quote:

Even so, I had no choice but to go along with it. One of the cardinal rules of hockey -- and this goes for both players and officials -- is that you never throw a teammate under the bus by showing him up. It does NOT mean being dishonest about the play, but it does mean there is a time and place to discuss it. 

The penalized team's bench squawked and the penalized player tried to plead his case. I actually couldn't blame them. It shouldn't have been a penalty. Nevertheless, I had to back up my partner, and we weren't about to change the call. 

 

 

[radoran]

33 minutes ago, fan4ever said:

Interesting Article about officiating by Paul Stewart....

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=74878

 

Thought this was interesting....

Quote:

Even so, I had no choice but to go along with it. One of the cardinal rules of hockey -- and this goes for both players and officials -- is that you never throw a teammate under the bus by showing him up. It does NOT mean being dishonest about the play, but it does mean there is a time and place to discuss it. 

The penalized team's bench squawked and the penalized player tried to plead his case. I actually couldn't blame them. It shouldn't have been a penalty. Nevertheless, I had to back up my partner, and we weren't about to change the call. 

 

I just find this whole mentality to be ridiculous - worthy of ridicule.

 

You're not "showing up" your fellow official by making the right call. There are times when one official sees something and the other sees it differently. You discuss this and you then make the right call.

 

If your fellow official made the wrong call and you let him do it I can't think of a better example of "throwing him under the bus."

[eleven24]

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Except when you have players who have played for a variety of teams and then they say that it's definitely the worst when they get to Philly, I think that's a little different don't you?

 

Also,  would any player in his right mind try to get away with a dive like this:

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level/watch-devil-take-amazing-dive-tuesday-vs-flyers

if he didn't know there was an existing prejudice against the team he's playing?  

 

 

 

One is not thinking "hey the refs are biased when it comes to the Flyers, I'm going to dive tonight and draw a penalty".  The game moves too fast.  A diver is a diver is a diver.  Will always do it, against every team.  As for Briere, he's the only player I know of who has ever come out and said he thought the Flyers had more penalties called against them than other teams he had played for.  But let's consider that.  He played for Phoenix and Montreal Buffalo before coming here.  Not exactly teams known for physical type play.

[AJgoal]

There was this from 2009:

 

About Friday's 3-2 overtime loss, Timonen said: "I didn't see the refs yelling at their bench at all. Not one time. And I could see them coming over to our bench a few times . . .. It makes you wonder why, but that's for others to judge."

Timonen said Penguins captain Sidney Crosby, the league's glamour player, has been treated differently.

"You see Crosby and these guys going to the refs and talking to them. It looks like they talk to them back, and when we go talk to them, they yell at us," the veteran defenseman said. "It's a little bit of a difference, but that's something I don't really care [about]. We can control how we play, and, hopefully, we'll get a couple of breaks, too."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...fferently.html (Link is broken, I got the quotes from a discussion on hockeyfights. I do, however, remember this article)

 

I don't know why this perception existed on the part of certain players, but it clearly did.

[NRH]

On 2/18/2016 at 9:10 AM, King Knut said:

Or at least allow the player to return after a few minutes of review. 

 

Honestly I don't mind the match on Gudas there.  It was completely unnecessary.  Not all that dangerous because it was so soft a hit (he took great care with it I thought), I just wish it went both ways. 

 

The hit looks more that guys fault than Gudas'

 

You don't skate that close to a player and talk **** to them and expect to just casually get away with it.

 

Flopping like he did should have also been a misconduct by that logic. Dude threw himself to the ice like Gudas sucker punched him.