ruxpin Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 22 hours ago, jammer2 said: I'm sure some detractors now realize that is type of a tournament is important. Having it sandwiched between two different Olympic games is perfect. The problem is, 4 years is a long time career wise, and over the course of those 4 years a team that won a medal could have over half the team turn over, due to players getting old, retiring or just fresh blood forcing out older players. There is enough top shelf talent to gain an accurate barometer on how various countries have evolved, gotten better or in some cases regressed. If we waited the full 4 years, a lot of guys would have been robbed of representing Canada one last time, Joe Thornton comes to mind, a guy who has been awesome representing his country and deserved one last moment in the spotlight. Because of the unique make-up of this tourny, the teams from Canada and the USA have gotten some excellent insight into their young up and coming stars and what individual players can offer in an international setting. They also get an idea on how certain players handle pressure and how they perform playing on off wing etc. EDIT: For those who don't feel like reading a book, I don't like the World Cup. I love ya like a brother, jammer, but none of this is remotely an argument for me. In fact, for me it's the complete opposite. I really only need a 4-year barometer of how countries match up against each other or evolved (honestly, I really don't care at all, but every 4 years is enough). As for Thornton or whomever else, they've had their chance. Several times. It's just the way it is. He could measure up against the best annually and win a Cup. In the interest of full disclosure: I really don't watch the Olympics either. I hate that they shut down the league for it. Absolutely hate it. Hockey goes away for me for two weeks because I have absolutely no interest in the Olympic game. I hate that they have pros in it. NHLers, anyway. The NHL markets itself as the preeminent hockey league in the world and SHUTS down for a different tournament. That will never fly for me. And now we have people under contract (some not) and being paid huge amounts playing for free in a tournament and getting hurt. Not only does the NHL not view this as breach of contract, the idiots who run the show actually encourage it. Screw the STH who bought thinking they'd have a chance at a full team. It's crap. I haven't watched a minute of this thing, and I don't plan to. I don't care whether the product is exciting in the immediate term. I reject it on principle. And I could give a crap if the USA did win. Why should I care? And Team North America? Who comes up with this crap? No thanks. Hockey starts on September 26 for me. Bring back the amateurs (this classification done with a wink) in the Olympics and I'll start watching again. College kids, juniors, etc. The Miracle on Ice was fun. You do it with pros, and I'm snoring while watching something else. Wanna have a pro tournament every four years so the $8M/yr geezers have "something to play for" (because $8M and a chance to win the Cup apparently doesn't do it). Maybe. Have them play both? I think it's asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 9/18/2016 at 4:42 AM, jammer2 said: If you ask me, that GIGANTIC turn of a hockey executive ....Brian Burke should NEVER ....EVER....be part of picking any team. That idiot would take truculence over skill 9 times out of 10.....yep, paging Mr.Tyler Biggs....you are the next contestant on the price is WRONG!! I have not seen Palmieri since the 1st exhibition game between the USA and Canada. He had a shoving match with Sid at the end of the 1st period. I think he has been dropped to the 13 forward position. Amazing, how a young 30 goal scorer with nice hands and speed to burn is not dressed ....and a hard working guy but GIANT stiff like Abdelkaer (spelling...lol, the Red Wing) is getting a regular shift....just amazing. Now we're back to subjects we agree on. Whole-heartedly. Picked the wrong coach, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 20 hours ago, jammer2 said: The USA now knows that goals are important I don't think it was meant to be, but that's one of the funniest things I've ever read on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 9/18/2016 at 6:20 AM, BluPuk said: I don't understand why the Americans would let Burke anywhere near picking a team. Size is great but it's not the only thing. Still, it's only one game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 4 hours ago, JR Ewing said: Celebrating the greatest money grab in the world of sport (the Olympics) but decrying it from the NHL is at least a little bit amusing. Mid that's aimed at my comments I don't really approve of them playing in the olympics either, but at least understand the draw of representing your nation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 43 minutes ago, Polaris922 said: Mid that's aimed at my comments I don't really approve of them playing in the olympics either, but at least understand the draw of representing your nation there. I wasn't aiming that at you, but rather the same folks who love NHL participation at the Olympics but hate this tournament due to being a money grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 9 hours ago, MadDevil said: Good thing the US has all that grit... Ya, when the US sends Kesler/Abdelkader/Backes out and Canada sends Crosby/Duchene/Marchand you know its going to be pretty even. Now if only sucker punches in the face counted for goals Tortsie had some real skill out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Ya, when the US sends Kesler/Abdelkader/Backes out and Canada sends Crosby/Duchene/Marchand you know its going to be pretty even. Now if only sucker punches in the face counted for goals Tortsie had some real skill out there. Frankly, I don't think Kessel would have made that much of a difference. When it comes to true HockeyTalent Canada just has the edge in this generation of NHL players. Sweden has more talent in this generation of players too over USA. Four to five years from now I think team USA has an actual chance at building a talented roster to be competitive in international hockey tournaments. If you go back to the draft order in 2009, -- Tavares #1, Dushane #3, etc Nick Leddy is the first guy from USA at #16. It's the same thing for drafts 2010, 2008 -- there might be one USA player represented in the top 10 and chances are that's a d-man. It isn't until we get to the last few years of the draft where talented USA forwards are drafted in the top 5 picks. You don't have to be drafted in the top 5 picks to be valuable in the NHL, but in an international tournament when your roster lacks talent chances are there wasn't that much talent to pick from in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 21 minutes ago, hf101 said: Frankly, I don't think Kessel would have made that much of a difference. When it comes to true HockeyTalent Canada just has the edge in this generation of NHL players. Sweden has more talent in this generation of players too over USA. Four to five years from now I think team USA has an actual chance at building a talented roster to be competitive in international hockey tournaments. If you go back to the draft order in 2009, -- Tavares #1, Dushane #3, etc Nick Leddy is the first guy from USA at #16. It's the same thing for drafts 2010, 2008 -- there might be one USA player represented in the top 10 and chances are that's a d-man. It isn't until we get to the last few years of the draft where talented USA forwards are drafted in the top 5 picks. You don't have to be drafted in the top 5 picks to be valuable in the NHL, but in an international tournament when your roster lacks talent chances are there wasn't that much talent to pick from in the first place. I don't disagree with what you're saying...the US has quality players, they just don't have the quantity Canada has. Even though the best forward, defenceman and goalie on Team N.A. are Canadian, it hurt the US more having that team. Which makes the selection process Team USA used even more mind-boggling. What, you're going to intimidate Team Canada? LMAO! Every player on that team has had sucker punches thrown at them over their entire hockey career. Even Crosby has stopped giving into it (hence the cup and him sitting atop the best player in the world heap again). All Team USA and Fonzie did was inspire Canada to kick their arse. They would have been better off icing their top skill and sitting in the bush...instead of poking the bear. That game only got close after Canada dominated the first half, basically had the game in their hands and fell asleep. Canada probably outplayed the US in 7 of the 9 periods in those 3 games...it's not usually that lopsided. You guys have much better players than the like of Kesler and Abdelkader. And definately better coaches than Tortellini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 The hockey world is changing and with that will come more and better players from all countries. Canada dominated hockey for a long, long time, but things are changing now. Any team in this tournament could have won it. The USA had a strategy that didn't work - this time. But it might next time. I think the idea of the "young guns" will die a natural death after this tourney. The USA could have used players like Gudreau, Matthews, and others, and, it would have made for better hockey. The USA won one of these in 1996 so they can certainly do it again. Learn from it and move on.. win it next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm........... If Brian Burke selected the players for team USA then I KNOW why Kessel wasn't picked. Burke went out on a limb and traded for Full Kessel on the Leafs... a trade that ultimately destroyed Burke's reputation as an NHL GM. Kessel was a flop in Toronto, displayed no leadership skills, dodged the Toronto spotlight when the going got tough, was a pushover on the ice, was the last player selected at the all-star game, and the players Toronto gave up to get Kessel have BOTH eclipsed him (Seguin and Hamilton). I imagine this move was retribution for Kessel embarrassing Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 6 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said: If Brian Burke selected the players for team USA then I KNOW why Kessel wasn't picked. Burke went out on a limb and traded for Full Kessel on the Leafs... a trade that ultimately destroyed Burke's reputation as an NHL GM. Kessel was a flop in Toronto, displayed no leadership skills, dodged the Toronto spotlight when the going got tough, was a pushover on the ice, was the last player selected at the all-star game, and the players Toronto gave up to get Kessel have BOTH eclipsed him (Seguin and Hamilton). I imagine this move was retribution for Kessel embarrassing Burke. I think that time, and a cup, has proven that Kessel can fill a role on a team, but Burke picked the wrong role. Kessel is not going to be the dominant player, or leader, to build a team around, he's not that kind of player. Opps, bad move Brian. Kessel fit in perfectly in Pittsburgh where there was less pressure on him due to having Crosby and Malkin be the focus. Heck, he was playing on the third line and thriving. If you look at Team USA, Kessel on his own does not make a difference, it was the team. I am totally dissappointed in the team selection of Team USA. The world cup should be a celebration of the game, and a showcase of talent and what the game should be. The US team should have went with some veterans for sure, but you want skill and speed in this type of tournament. Instead, Burke and Ferret Face picked a team like he was trying to put together a second tier team for the playoffs to slow down the game and grind out a boring 1-0 win. I mean really, selecting Brandon Dubinsky to the team devalues the prestige of everyone ever selected to team USA. If this is retribution, then Burke needs to try again because it was a MAJOR FAIL. Kessel's still laughing, holding his picture of him of the cup and resting up for the year. Lastly, watching Ferret Face fail, priceless. Wonder who he can blame for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDevil Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Dubinsky would have been fine if he was the only player of that type on the team. But then you throw Backes, Kesler, Abdelkader, and Callahan (who would have been on the team if he'd been healthy) and there's way too much redundancy there. Choosing those type of players over guys like Kessel, Okposo, Tyler Johnson, etc. is just idiotic. Then you've got the dipshit behind the bench using guys like Pacioretty and Palmieri (each scored 30 goals last season) with somebody like Backes not in a scoring role. And don't even get me started on USA Hockey's obsession with Jack Johnson. Yeah he's always willing to represent the US internationally. That's nice. Unfortunately he also sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 1 hour ago, MadDevil said: Dubinsky would have been fine if he was the only player of that type on the team. But then you throw Backes, Kesler, Abdelkader, and Callahan (who would have been on the team if he'd been healthy) and there's way too much redundancy there. Choosing those type of players over guys like Kessel, Okposo, Tyler Johnson, etc. is just idiotic. Then you've got the dipshit behind the bench using guys like Pacioretty and Palmieri (each scored 30 goals last season) with somebody like Backes not in a scoring role. And don't even get me started on USA Hockey's obsession with Jack Johnson. Yeah he's always willing to represent the US internationally. That's nice. Unfortunately he also sucks. Team Canada did this same strategy once for the Olympics at Nagano (1998). Lots of "character" players, grinders, tough guys, etc... but they were thin on speed and scoring talent. They lost. From that point forward, team Canada went back to putting together teams that were stacked offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Ghost with 3A today!! Can't wait for him to work his magic for a full season. GO FLYERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 4 hours ago, nossagog said: I think that time, and a cup, has proven that Kessel can fill a role on a team, but Burke picked the wrong role. Kessel is not going to be the dominant player, or leader, to build a team around, he's not that kind of player. Opps, bad move Brian. I think the expectation was that he would be Toronto's equivalent to Ovechkin when Burke signed him. At that moment in time, Kessel was a young player that had a scoring touch and still had upside. The belief was that he hadn't reached his ceiling yet. He was going to be "the guy" in Toronto and have every opportunity to put up outrageous offensive numbers in the blue and white, a team that didn't play a tight defensive system. But like you mentioned, he can't be "the guy". He's a support player that needs other guys to do the heavy lifting for him to be effective. It worked perfectly in Pittsburgh -- because the Penguins have the best player in the world at center and an awesome #2. I'm not sure that Kessel wins a Cup anywhere else but Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 For those who didn't get to watch NA vs Sweden's OT. Enjoy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 have to laugh -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 4 hours ago, hf101 said: have to laugh -- He's pretty popular here or some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 http://sonsofpenn.com/flyers/shayne-gostisbehere-three-points-world-cup-ot-win/ Nice play by Ghost and gang. Man Johnny hockey would be the perfect LW for Giroux and Jake on the 1st line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 North America vs the Swedes was an amazing game. It solidified what we all knew, there was more than enough young talent to have this young guns team....they were neck and neck with one of the best goalies and teams in the entire world. Go FINS, let's see them one more time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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