B. Schenn traded to Blues for J. Lehtera and a Conditional 1st in 2018

[OccamsRazor]

35 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Till then, this is still a wait n see situation and the bottom line is Schenn > Lehtera if we are talking about useful players NOW.

 

Hard to tell right NOW neither have any goals or points at the moment...so it's a close race.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Hard to tell right NOW neither have any goals or points at the moment...so it's a close race.

 

I'll take Schenn's track record over Lehtera's every single time.

NOW as in what player will have an immediate impact on their team.

Both have played enough in the NHL for anyone to see Schenn > Lehtera in July, August, September, October and beyond.

 

Of course, if there are any games going on I don't know about in July, please, let me know...I'd like to tune in... 

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

I'll take Schenn's track record over Lehtera's every single time.

NOW as in what player will have an immediate impact on their team.

Both have played enough in the NHL for anyone to see Schenn > Lehtera in July, August, September, October and beyond.

 

Of course, if there are any games going on I don't know about in July, please, let me know...I'd like to tune in... 

 

 

You never know Lehtera could lite it up with the right line mates.

 

Let's just wait till they play before we try to say what they could be.

 

Hell for all we know they could be traded before opening night...

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

After finally getting to the last post of reading every post from the beginning as to not look over any posters point of view, what it comes down to is, we traded a known commodity for a Chance of a better commodity.

Only one person posted about Coots line with Weise and Schenn.

That was our best line towards the end of the year. Adding Fillpy and trading Streit, balanced our team.

That was the line I was hoping to see a full year with.

Our top 5 v 5 line center man was playing with two wingers that clicked and were scoring.

We lost that for this year. Schenn was good with Coots, not all your lines have to be meth lines.

That power forward game that line had, was hard to play against, slotted against other teams lines.

That was our even strength line that when the other two lines couldn't score, we at least had that power forward line that could contribute.

The idea that Schenn would block another roster player is an old myth as @Del Zotto says high to.

Hextall went on Record that he believes every year your team has to earn their starting job and internal competition is healthy for a team. No player had a spot given to him.

As long as you have cap space it doesn't matter where contracts get slotted in which line combination up and down the roster.

If Schenn is our best "4th line" player and Coots is there with him along with Weise and they're scoring goals, that's what counts. Not  on what line he scored it on.

Just because someone's a black belt doesn't mean he can kick your ass.

Those that don't like the trade are completely valid in Net loss. WE Have  Net Loss period.

Now those that favor the trade have also a valid point in that Schenn's unorthodox value was tricky to line up.

Though Schenn, Coots and Weise were a set piece that worked well together and not being able to play that "set" could cause some difficulties with the team.

Thus this year was a bad year for a trade in respects the pieces coming up where not situated as of yet.

We have a team on napkin that we think should be good, but there are going to be a few new pieces that we can't add to the knowledge base due to no history of our new parts.

Our knowledge base with Schenn and our team last year was that they for sure should of at least made the playoffs,  per the team we had on opening night. the fact we had that winning streak could of been seen as an "over achieving" but none the less even without that we could of made the playoffs.

At the end am I happy we didn't make the playoffs... ya, but not at first, but look at what we got out of it now..second overall pick (would of been lost to the first to Jersey had he not been injured). I like Nico for his tenacity but I think Nolan is the better player.

So what we have here is a similar situation for our new year in Schenn, as in our loss of him with how our season went.

We lost a known valuable commodity for an unknown situation (this is a fact that cannot be disputed either way).

But we are now sitting in a "draft lottery" position for the season not knowing where we're

really gonna be at the end of the season but we have a chance, a "2.1%" chance at something great this year, but still a chance.

 

So unfortunately  (or maybe fortunately) we will not know any answers as facts. until this season takes place and the: For Favor of the trade posters are right in regards to were we are as a team and draft picks was worth the trade in 2018.

Or the Not in Favor as we see our window being pushed back even further, for the chance at more "magic beans" in our pouch.

 

 

 

Very nice post.  Hard to argue with much of it.  Well said.

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Till then, this is still a wait n see situation and the bottom line is Schenn > Lehtera if we are talking about useful players NOW.

 

The knee-jerk is "yeah, of course."

 

But maybe when you consider what they each would be used for on the Flyers the algebra gets a bit more murky.   Pretend for a moment that what the Flyers really needed was a fourth line center.  This is really a hard argument to make given the Flyers have like 27 centers, but let's go with this theory for a moment.   Schenn was not and is not going to be a center on any line -- the Blues' fantasies aside.  So, slotted at 4th line center Lehtera v. Schenn may actually come out with Lehtera (I'm honestly under no delusion about Lehtera, and if the Flyers' plan is actually to slot Lehtera on the 3rd line wing, then throw this entire post out--because that's ridiculous IMO.  Because, as @LegionOfDoom correctly points out, the Coots/Schenn/Weise line was actually pretty good).  

 

PP?   Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek and Ghost were a given on the PP.  As out there as it sounds considering Schenn was tied for the lead in PPG, I don't think Schenn's place on the top PP unit was etched in stone.   There's the real possibility he'd have been supplanted by Patrick--if not right away, probably in the very near future.  That is likely the plan, anyway.   With Filpulla, Konecny, Lindblom and Provorov likely penciled into the 2nd line, you would think Schenn would at least slot in here.  But possibly not. Of the remaining names, I think it's Schenn.

 

But, if he's going to be reduced to the 2nd power play that gets maybe 30-45 seconds per full power play and 4th line minutes, we're looking at maybe 10 minutes/game for Schenn.   

 

Now, asset management:   At this point, is Schenn more valuable as a (wasted) 10-minute/game player or as a trade piece?  You get a guy who fits in appropriately to the 4th line, if overpaid, and two quality picks to try to draft for pieces that could provide value later--whether in the form of a player or as a trade commodity.

 

From Schenn's point of view, it's definitely a beneficial trade since he gets the opportunity to play on a first line (until he proves he's ill-suited).   But Schenn's POV really isn't relevant to weighing this trade.  

 

Strictly from an asset value standpoint, the Flyers made out.

 

@vis has argued that the value should have been a roster player.  I don't mind agreeing with that.   On the other hand, when you look at the roster, it's possible we don't have need for that roster player at the moment given the roster spots and the kids they're hoping to fill them with.  And the spots that should open at the end of next year.   So...you get the picks which will be a commodity, and you can always then go get your player by trading either the Flyers' pick or the one they got from St. Louis to fill the holes created by the exit of Read and/or Raffl and a couple others.

 

So, strictly from a Schenn vs. Lehtera, I'll stipulate that Schenn is better.   When you add in what they're going to be used for, maybe it gets a lot more even.    

 

Viewed from an asset management perspective, it's "we weren't going to use Schenn in a way that will help his value and fitting in another piece will cause issues NOW.  So while his value is high, move him for assets that can later be moved once we have some room to get a current player of quality back and once we know exactly what we have with the kids (the forwards, in particular).

 

[/book]

[pilldoc]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

The knee-jerk is "yeah, of course."

 

But maybe when you consider what they each would be used for on the Flyers the algebra gets a bit more murky.   Pretend for a moment that what the Flyers really needed was a fourth line center.  This is really a hard argument to make given the Flyers have like 27 centers, but let's go with this theory for a moment.   Schenn was not and is not going to be a center on any line -- the Blues' fantasies aside.  So, slotted at 4th line center Lehtera v. Schenn may actually come out with Lehtera (I'm honestly under no delusion about Lehtera, and if the Flyers' plan is actually to slot Lehtera on the 3rd line wing, then throw this entire post out--because that's ridiculous IMO.  Because, as @LegionOfDoom correctly points out, the Coots/Schenn/Weise line was actually pretty good).  

 

PP?   Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek and Ghost were a given on the PP.  As out there as it sounds considering Schenn was tied for the lead in PPG, I don't think Schenn's place on the top PP unit was etched in stone.   There's the real possibility he'd have been supplanted by Patrick--if not right away, probably in the very near future.  That is likely the plan, anyway.   With Filpulla, Konecny, Lindblom and Provorov likely penciled into the 2nd line, you would think Schenn would at least slot in here.  But possibly not. Of the remaining names, I think it's Schenn.

 

But, if he's going to be reduced to the 2nd power play that gets maybe 30-45 seconds per full power play and 4th line minutes, we're looking at maybe 10 minutes/game for Schenn.   

 

Now, asset management:   At this point, is Schenn more valuable as a (wasted) 10-minute/game player or as a trade piece?  You get a guy who fits in appropriately to the 4th line, if overpaid, and two quality picks to try to draft for pieces that could provide value later--whether in the form of a player or as a trade commodity.

 

From Schenn's point of view, it's definitely a beneficial trade since he gets the opportunity to play on a first line (until he proves he's ill-suited).   But Schenn's POV really isn't relevant to weighing this trade.  

 

Strictly from an asset value standpoint, the Flyers made out.

 

@vis has argued that the value should have been a roster player.  I don't mind agreeing with that.   On the other hand, when you look at the roster, it's possible we don't have need for that roster player at the moment given the roster spots and the kids they're hoping to fill them with.  And the spots that should open at the end of next year.   So...you get the picks which will be a commodity, and you can always then go get your player by trading either the Flyers' pick or the one they got from St. Louis to fill the holes created by the exit of Read and/or Raffl and a couple others.

 

So, strictly from a Schenn vs. Lehtera, I'll stipulate that Schenn is better.   When you add in what they're going to be used for, maybe it gets a lot more even.    

 

Viewed from an asset management perspective, it's "we weren't going to use Schenn in a way that will help his value and fitting in another piece will cause issues NOW.  So while his value is high, move him for assets that can later be moved once we have some room to get a current player of quality back and once we know exactly what we have with the kids (the forwards, in particular).

 

[/book]

 

Very interesting theory @ruxpin.  So simply put, and I might me over simplying  it a bit, but in a sense, Schenn could have just been a pawn.  (I am not using this term in a negative way here).  I do get though that in essence that the Flyers could be taking a step back, hoping to take 2 or 3 steps ahead.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@ruxpin

 

While I will continue to maintain that Schenn is the better player over Lehtera (honestly, ANYONE can see that..Schenn fan or not!), I really DO understand completely why the the Flyers made that trade.

 

I fully understand Schenn was no longer in Philly's long term plans and that if they are gonna rebuild, then they have to rebuild and that means young roster players, prospects and picks.

The organization simply cannot half ass it.

 

I said my peace on this long ago early in the thread, but what brought me back in here was the comparison of the Pronger-Dingle trade to Philly (for a bunch of guys who didn't turn into much) to this one...which I couldn't help but think was quite ridiculous.

 

In that scenario, the draft picks were compared to Pronger (picks vs. an established elite defender....yea, right...puff, puff, pass), so that left the "leftover" (Dingle was the extra) guys of Schenn and Lehtera....where, and here we are once again, Schenn is the better player.

 

I don't find fault with Ron Hextall in how he is going about rebuilding this team.

You do have to give up something short term for a long term gain.....believe me I get that.

 

And I know trading away Schenn and getting back what he did wasn't about Lehtera, but more with an eye to look ahead. Especially if Schenn was going to 'wasted' as you put it, in a role that didn't have a long shelf life for him on this team.

It's a gamble the Flyer GM has to take at this juncture, and he likely would do it again the same way if he had to....give up a current useful player, take back a lesser player, but gain in either picks or prospects.

 

Of course, not all picks and prospects will pan out, but as we are looking at with Vegas, if you have enough of them (along with the promising young players already in the fold), then you increase the chances that a small percentage of them will be difference makers for your franchise eventually.

 

But seriously....the Pronger trade compared to this??

Just..... 

 

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

44 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

But seriously....the Pronger trade compared to this??

 

Yeah, can't argue with you on that. 

 

I get the context of why that comparison was used, but when you consider all the moving parts of each, it doesn't really work. 

[caluso]

6 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

@ruxpin

 

While I will continue to maintain that Schenn is the better player over Lehtera (honestly, ANYONE can see that..Schenn fan or not!), I really DO understand completely why the the Flyers made that trade.

 

I fully understand Schenn was no longer in Philly's long term plans and that if they are gonna rebuild, then they have to rebuild and that means young roster players, prospects and picks.

The organization simply cannot half ass it.

 

I said my peace on this long ago early in the thread, but what brought me back in here was the comparison of the Pronger-Dingle trade to Philly (for a bunch of guys who didn't turn into much) to this one...which I couldn't help but think was quite ridiculous.

 

In that scenario, the draft picks were compared to Pronger (picks vs. an established elite defender....yea, right...puff, puff, pass), so that left the "leftover" (Dingle was the extra) guys of Schenn and Lehtera....where, and here we are once again, Schenn is the better player.

 

I don't find fault with Ron Hextall in how he is going about rebuilding this team.

You do have to give up something short term for a long term gain.....believe me I get that.

 

And I know trading away Schenn and getting back what he did wasn't about Lehtera, but more with an eye to look ahead. Especially if Schenn was going to 'wasted' as you put it, in a role that didn't have a long shelf life for him on this team.

It's a gamble the Flyer GM has to take at this juncture, and he likely would do it again the same way if he had to....give up a current useful player, take back a lesser player, but gain in either picks or prospects.

 

Of course, not all picks and prospects will pan out, but as we are looking at with Vegas, if you have enough of them (along with the promising young players already in the fold), then you increase the chances that a small percentage of them will be difference makers for your franchise eventually.

 

But seriously....the Pronger trade compared to this??

Just..... 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, Schenn is better than Lehtera.

 

But the Flyers undoubtedly maximized Schenn's value when they received 2 number 1s for him.

 

You rightly pointed out that the picks the Flyers have, may or not pan out. Having said that, I would make that trade, take that gamble, all day, every day.

 

Schenn played himself into a bottom six forward position. Thats the reality. The Flyers, sadly, are loaded with bottom 6 guys. Schenn's play at 5 on 5 will not be missed and Lord help us if it is. He was wildly inconsistent by any measure. I could argue that we should take a wait and see attitude before we exclaim that the team will be worse off in the near future without him.

 

All I know with absolute certainty was that the Flyers have been maddeningly inconsistent in their effort and results for several years. And, like it or not, Schenn had something to do with that.

 

The power play may or may not miss him. As I said, the Flyers have a new PP coach, with a new system, so who knows what will transpire.

 

The bottom line is that unloading a bottom six forward who excels only on the PP for 2 number 1s is a great trade, as I see it.

 

[OccamsRazor]

@ruxpin

 

So it seems now we are seeing the Brayden Schenn some us Flyers knew.

 

It seems like he has cooled off and returning to normal.

 

Hasn't scored a goal since december 20th. 

 

One goal and -7 since december 12th.

 

Thoughts? Excuses?

[mojo1917]

Haven't his linemates alternated being injured...I know Jaden Shwartz has been out for a while.

plus, Schenn is Schenn he's going to be "that guy" the guy who gives glimpses of greatness but usually is just competent.

He's not a guy that makes other guys better.  There's nothing "going on with him" . he's playing his game.

[ruxpin]

59 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

@ruxpin

 

So it seems now we are seeing the Brayden Schenn some us Flyers knew.

 

It seems like he has cooled off and returning to normal.

 

Hasn't scored a goal since december 20th. 

 

One goal and -7 since december 12th.

 

Thoughts? Excuses?

 

I'll make the excuse that Schwartz was injured on Dec. 9 and the guy he was clicking with isn't there.    There's a long walk from Schwartz to Steen.

 

But I think we're also seeing more of what all of us predicted.   He's always had really hot streaks where we're saying, "wow, he may have finally figured it out!" bookended by extended periods where he's nearly invisible and possibly a detriment.

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, ruxpin said:

I'll make the excuse that Schwartz was injured on Dec. 9 and the guy he was clicking with isn't there.    There's a long walk from Schwartz to Steen.

 

 

Doesn't matter he is suppose to make players around him better.

 

Convenient excuse i say.  And Steen has produced. 2 goals in the last 5 games.

 

He still has Tarasenko who has been fine too.

 

The issue is he can't elevate others. I'll be generous....and at best say he can compliment others for short while.

 

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

But I think we're also seeing more of what all of us predicted.

 

Exactly. He had a lot to prove....very motivated being traded already twice...like his brother.

[aziz]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

And Steen has produced. 2 goals in the last 5 games.

 

He still has Tarasenko who has been fine too.

 

The issue is he can't elevate others.

 

not for nothing, but schenn was the primary assist on both of those goals.

 

and you know what?  for every player that can "elevate others", you need players that are elevate-able.  schenn certainly doesn't seem to have any leadership capacity, and has significant issues with focus and consistency.  on the other hand, he obviously has a high skill ceiling matched to a play style that is surprisingly physical given said skill ceiling.  he is kind of an ideal linemate for a player that DOES "elevate others", a leader than can provide the focus and consistency that schenn is lacking.  and he found that for a while in st louis, as he did periodically in philly.  a player like that is a more than worthwhile thing to have on your team, if your team is blessed with the kind of leader a player like schenn needs.

 

this is as opposed to the vast swamp of jobbers around the league that cannot be elevated, who are limited in overall talent to the point that no leader can extract anything extra.  to bring it full circle, jori lehtera is a pretty good example of that.

 

here's the funny thing about it all, to me, anyway:  the angst about schenn seems to be based primarily on his draft position and the narrative of his first few seasons post-draft.  he was projected as a high-impact player, and never matched those projections.  as a result, he is reviled.  the guy is a career 50 point player (which isn't great but isn't worthless) and was the flyers' 3rd leading scorer last season, but he is seen as and called garbage because he isn't (and never will be) an elite difference maker.  you actually said, "the issue is he can't elevate others," as though that is the only player attribute that is important.  because he falls short of that expectation, he has no value whatsoever. 

 

i contend that if his draft position and failure to live up to the attendant projections are ignored, people would see a reasonably effective 6/7 forward at worst, with the potential to be much more if given the right linemates.  his draft position, however, seems to mandate that anything less than world beating is a deep disappointment that invalidates the player entirely, regardless of what above-average level he actually manages to achieve.

 

while they are/were obviously very very different players, schenn's dynamic reminds me a bit of john leclair.  leclair was a career 50 point player, did a good job but nothing amazing.  he was elevate-able, though.  put on lindros's wing, he proceeded to kick all kinds of ass for  5 1/2 years.  then, lindros went away, leclair de-elevated, and became a 50-point guy again.  that doesn't mean leclair sucked and should have been traded for a random 4th line jobber and a few picks.  it means he needed a leader like lindros to get the most out of him, and more importantly, had more in him to be uncovered by the right leader.  a guy like leclair was a great piece of the team's puzzle.  he didn't need to elevate anyone else to be valuable.

 

then again, he wasn't drafted 5th overall or ever called the best player not in the NHL.  as if that should matter at all.

[vis]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Thoughts? Excuses?

Schwartz has been injured.  That line really clicked.  Blues have been juggling lines a bit since then, particularly recently.  He's playing with Steen and Tage Thompson.  Far cry from Tarasenko and Schwartz.

 

Generally, I agree that Schenn is not the type to elevate others around him.  However, for the record, Schwartz was having a career year as well with Schenn at center.  Shame he got injured.

 

The Blues in general have struggled since Schwartz went out.

[brelic]

2 hours ago, aziz said:

 

not for nothing, but schenn was the primary assist on both of those goals.

 

and you know what?  for every player that can "elevate others", you need players that are elevate-able.  schenn certainly doesn't seem to have any leadership capacity, and has significant issues with focus and consistency.  on the other hand, he obviously has a high skill ceiling matched to a play style that is surprisingly physical given said skill ceiling.  he is kind of an ideal linemate for a player that DOES "elevate others", a leader than can provide the focus and consistency that schenn is lacking.  and he found that for a while in st louis, as he did periodically in philly.  a player like that is a more than worthwhile thing to have on your team, if your team is blessed with the kind of leader a player like schenn needs.

 

this is as opposed to the vast swamp of jobbers around the league that cannot be elevated, who are limited in overall talent to the point that no leader can extract anything extra.  to bring it full circle, jori lehtera is a pretty good example of that.

 

here's the funny thing about it all, to me, anyway:  the angst about schenn seems to be based primarily on his draft position and the narrative of his first few seasons post-draft.  he was projected as a high-impact player, and never matched those projections.  as a result, he is reviled.  the guy is a career 50 point player (which isn't great but isn't worthless) and was the flyers' 3rd leading scorer last season, but he is seen as and called garbage because he isn't (and never will be) an elite difference maker.  you actually said, "the issue is he can't elevate others," as though that is the only player attribute that is important.  because he falls short of that expectation, he has no value whatsoever. 

 

i contend that if his draft position and failure to live up to the attendant projections are ignored, people would see a reasonably effective 6/7 forward at worst, with the potential to be much more if given the right linemates.  his draft position, however, seems to mandate that anything less than world beating is a deep disappointment that invalidates the player entirely, regardless of what above-average level he actually manages to achieve.

 

while they are/were obviously very very different players, schenn's dynamic reminds me a bit of john leclair.  leclair was a career 50 point player, did a good job but nothing amazing.  he was elevate-able, though.  put on lindros's wing, he proceeded to kick all kinds of ass for  5 1/2 years.  then, lindros went away, leclair de-elevated, and became a 50-point guy again.  that doesn't mean leclair sucked and should have been traded for a random 4th line jobber and a few picks.  it means he needed a leader like lindros to get the most out of him, and more importantly, had more in him to be uncovered by the right leader.  a guy like leclair was a great piece of the team's puzzle.  he didn't need to elevate anyone else to be valuable.

 

then again, he wasn't drafted 5th overall or ever called the best player not in the NHL.  as if that should matter at all.

 

Brayden Schenn ranks 5th in PPG for his draft year (1st round). So... he was drafted 5th. I dunno, I'd say he's meeting expectations, no?

 

It's not like he's Scott Glennie. And if you asked "Who??", exactly.

 

EDIT: This wasn't directed at you, aziz. Just the conversation in general. 

 

And by PPG, I mean points per game. 

 

[mojo1917]

@aziz

 

fair points in a good post.

Schenn  did not live up to expectations in Phila.  simple as that.  

Those expectations were really high, in addition to all the stuff you wrote regarding his draft position, there was this; The Flyers traded their captain and one of their best players for Schenn and Simmonds, Simmonds was widely thought to be a pot sweetener, Schenn was the centerpiece of the trade.  He never lived up to Mike Richard's diminishing shadow. So for me, Schenn needed to be freakin' awesome and he was just a 50pt guy which isn't chopped liver but  I never forgot who we traded to get him either.

 

[aziz]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

EDIT: This wasn't directed at you, aziz. Just the conversation in general. 

 

And by PPG, I mean points per game. 

 

oh, understood, no worries.  that really is an interesting stat, though.  i'm vaguely defending him, and even I'm surprised he ranks that high.

 

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@aziz

 

fair points in a good post.

Schenn  did not live up to expectations in Phila.  simple as that.  

Those expectations were really high, in addition to all the stuff you wrote regarding his draft position, there was this; The Flyers traded their captain and one of their best players for Schenn and Simmonds, Simmonds was widely thought to be a pot sweetener, Schenn was the centerpiece of the trade.  He never lived up to Mike Richard's diminishing shadow. So for me, Schenn needed to be freakin' awesome and he was just a 50pt guy which isn't chopped liver but  I never forgot who we traded to get him either.

 

 

I think that's what it comes down to. He;s lived up to his own draft position, but the expectations in Philly were unrealistic.

[aziz]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Those expectations were really high, in addition to all the stuff you wrote regarding his draft position, there was this; The Flyers traded their captain and one of their best players for Schenn and Simmonds, Simmonds was widely thought to be a pot sweetener, Schenn was the centerpiece of the trade.  He never lived up to Mike Richard's diminishing shadow. So for me, Schenn needed to be freakin' awesome and he was just a 50pt guy which isn't chopped liver but  I never forgot who we traded to get him either.

 

i get that.  interestingly, though, schenn caught up to richards' production after two years and kept driving forward, production-wise, from there, while richards fell off an absolute cliff.  which is to say, had that trade not happened, the flyers would have had the several years of a drug-addled mike richards until he was completely gone, with no return.  the flyers traded 4-5 years of wasting away mike richards for 5 years of solid-if-unspectactular brayden schenn.  without that context, totally understand where you are coming from.  with that context, thank the lord the flyers made that move, right?  can you imagine if the richards drama had come fully to light while he was still in a flyers' jersey? 

[RJ8812]

He is a complimentary player. Just like Hartnell was. There's nothing wrong with that but he isn't going to make his linemates better, they make him better 

 

Every team has them 

[flyercanuck]

Don't look now but that Blues pick is in real danger of being BEFORE the Flyers pick.

[Podein25]

5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Don't look now but that Blues pick is in real danger of being BEFORE the Flyers pick.

 

Here's to slippage!  

[brelic]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

Don't look now but that Blues pick is in real danger of being BEFORE the Flyers pick.

 

As long as it’s not a lottery pick, slip slip away! We’ll be picking 31st anyway!

 

 

[AJgoal]

It can be a lottery pick. It just can't finish in one of the top 10 slots. So let them fall to 11th.