elmatus Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, terp said: This is expensive, but I may feel differently if the picks are reclaimed in a subsequent Hägg or Ghost trade. 4 hours ago, AJgoal said: Let me dial this back a little bit, because it's coming off as if I hate the move. On its own, I don't. Braun offers little in the way of offense, but his defensive metrics are solid. I think a 2nd and next year's third are maybe a tad bit of an overpayment for a defensive defenseman who's a one-rear rental, but it's not horrible (aside from killing certain offer sheet options). Of course, I would have preferred to see if that 2nd could have been in some sort of package for Spurgeon, but I digress. What bothers me is the pattern. Stolarz is a young goalie, some upside. Talbot is an older guy, had some success, but had had a couple bad years back to back. That trade value is fine, except that Talbot HAD to move so they could activate Sekera. Fletcher pays full value. Niskanen is coming off of two years of decline. Gudas is a nothing flashy, stay at home guy with decent instincts and good defensive numbers. Even if you agree that Gudas with 30% retained is equal value for Niskanen (I don't), the Caps are a division rival who are facing cap trouble. Again, full value paid. Braun is a steady, stay at home guy, signed for one more year. As I said, a 2+future 3 is probably fair value, or a bit of an overpayment. Yet again, the Sharks are in cap trouble, and you pay full value. I could see there possibly being competition for Braun, I'm doubtful on the other two. The pattern is the concerning part. If it was one move for one guy (especially if it was Braun), I wouldn't have too much of an issue with it. But so far there have been three trades where he should've been able to get a discount, and he failed all three times. That tells me that he's either 1 - bad at negotiating, 2 - bad at valuation, or 3 - bad at both. What happens when he goes after a player that a team doesn't need to trade? Do we get bent over? THAT is what I'm worried about - not the move in and of itself. Lots of good points here. I was just looking at it from the standpoint of what we currently lost vs what we gained, which doesn't seem like a big change frankly, but all those picks we lost along the way could very well come back to bite us down the road. Hopefully not, but part of me is still reeling from the homercoaster... I'll reserve judgment for now. I want to see what happens with Hayes and Ghost. In terms of what we have on the ice now, I don't know enough about Braun to have a good sense of what he brings, so it's hard to gauge. If he's a stay at home guy, then that's really something we don't have much. Could be good. Is it worth the picks we sent out for, as you say, a rental? That I'm not so sure. I don't know that Braun is what puts us in a contending spot. Also, I worry we just stocked up on dmen but didn't really get a top pairing guy to go with Provo. Again, I don't know Braun enough, but him being a stay at home guy would seem an odd partner for Ivan, unless of course AV is planning to shuffle the pairings a bit. Ghost or Sanheim would seem like better partners for a stay at home guy imo. It's also entirely possible AV believes Provo can be more offensive, and he wanted Braun so that he'd have a been more freedom on the ice to further develop that side of his game. That would be pretty cool actually. Provo/Braun Sanheim/Niskanen Ghost/Myers or maybe Ghost/Braun Provo/Niskanen Sanheim/Myers And maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing... Edited June 19, 2019 by elmatus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 8 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: I see Chuck is back to his old tricks of giving away 2nd round picks like they're candy at Halloween, has he tossed out NMC's and NTC's as party favors yet? (shrugs) i like this. I'm nervous about what's coming. Not sure if it's anxiety, anticipation, or my dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Wait. I think we're getting a second rounder back when we move one of the defensemen that have to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, ruxpin said: (shrugs) i like this. I'm nervous about what's coming. Not sure if it's anxiety, anticipation, or my dinner. Halibut from Applebee’s??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, pilldoc said: Halibut from Applebee’s??? Lol something like that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 The other thing I like about these moves so far is that no one affects who gets protected at the expansion draft. I suppose that doesn't have to be a primary concern, but Fletcher so far is building a short term competitive team without tripping on himself later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I have not been happy with Braun for the past 2 years. He went from a spectacular defensive Dman to the worst on the ice if not paired with Vlasic. I look at this as getting a 2nd and 3rd for a salary dump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said: I have not been happy with Braun for the past 2 years. He went from a spectacular defensive Dman to the worst on the ice if not paired with Vlasic. I look at this as getting a 2nd and 3rd for a salary dump Well at least you got Karlsson... ...because i'm afraid you guys won't be back to the finals again while he is on the team...i think the window has closed on the Sharks. Edited June 19, 2019 by OccamsRazor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 The Flyers Twitter feed is getting shredded on this deal. The vast majority of positive fit the Flyers are coming from Sharks fans. Lol I actually like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 I was looking at Braun's metrics, and they're ridiculously weird. He grades out well in defensive attempt metrics, and is >50% in shot based percentage metrics, but his realized metrics are poop. 4th worst on ice save percentage and 5th worst on-ice shooting percentage can do that to a guy. He seems like he had a year like Sanheim did last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 11 hours ago, ctid said: Seems to me it's a slightly lesser version of Jason Smith and trying to emulate when we traded for him didn't he become Captain? for a single season if I remember correctly. maybe Braun will eventually get an A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 hours ago, AJgoal said: Let me dial this back a little bit, because it's coming off as if I hate the move. On its own, I don't. Braun offers little in the way of offense, but his defensive metrics are solid. I think a 2nd and next year's third are maybe a tad bit of an overpayment for a defensive defenseman who's a one-rear rental, but it's not horrible (aside from killing certain offer sheet options). Of course, I would have preferred to see if that 2nd could have been in some sort of package for Spurgeon, but I digress. What bothers me is the pattern. Stolarz is a young goalie, some upside. Talbot is an older guy, had some success, but had had a couple bad years back to back. That trade value is fine, except that Talbot HAD to move so they could activate Sekera. Fletcher pays full value. Niskanen is coming off of two years of decline. Gudas is a nothing flashy, stay at home guy with decent instincts and good defensive numbers. Even if you agree that Gudas with 30% retained is equal value for Niskanen (I don't), the Caps are a division rival who are facing cap trouble. Again, full value paid. Braun is a steady, stay at home guy, signed for one more year. As I said, a 2+future 3 is probably fair value, or a bit of an overpayment. Yet again, the Sharks are in cap trouble, and you pay full value. I could see there possibly being competition for Braun, I'm doubtful on the other two. The pattern is the concerning part. If it was one move for one guy (especially if it was Braun), I wouldn't have too much of an issue with it. But so far there have been three trades where he should've been able to get a discount, and he failed all three times. That tells me that he's either 1 - bad at negotiating, 2 - bad at valuation, or 3 - bad at both. What happens when he goes after a player that a team doesn't need to trade? Do we get bent over? THAT is what I'm worried about - not the move in and of itself. This is what I see as well. 1.All I can think of is like ordering a pretty good pizza over the phone. Then going out and picking it up, paying for it and on the drive home there is instructions on having to cook it for another 10 more minutes to finish off the cooking process before you can eat it. 2.Some other guys are able to order a pizza and pick it up and even it a slice on the way home(burning there mouth on the dripping melted cheese.) 3.Other guys answer the door and pay the guy that delivered the pizza. Though not exact, the feeling I'm getting is my buddy talking on the side of me saying, "Hey your boy is doing what the number 1 guy is doing and paying like the number 3 guy....go figure? eh? The other side is we are Paying for an in home tutor for the youngins' and having the tutor also be a homemaker as well helping out around the house with the chores. Two jobs, and if they do good jobs, then this trade/deal HAS REAL VALUE! If they turn into McDuds, then ya, we got shafted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post yave1964 Posted June 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2019 Outside looking in, any any way you look at it, Braud/Niskanen paired with the kids is a thousand times better than Gudas/McDonald-period. Any day of the week-twice on Sunday. And signing Hayes (according to reports) brings in a fantastic two way player who takes the pressure off Patrick and makes the Flyers harder to play against at both ends of the ice. Three aggressive moves, none by themselves Earth shattering but as a whole make your boys a lot harder to play against on a nightly basis. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, yave1964 said: brings in a fantastic two way player who takes the pressure off Patrick See it does and it doesn't. Morgan Frost will be in the AHL and eyeballing Mr. Patrick's seat and trust me he has already said he wants to do everything he can to make the NHL....so yes this doesn't relieve pressure on Nolan just applies a different set of pressure...Morgan is coming for his spot so he better make the most of this year....i can see Frost making the team by 2020-21....Patrick might be heading to Seattle if he doesn't get it together.... Edited June 19, 2019 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: ...organ is coming for his spot Is it his liver? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OccamsRazor Posted June 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Podein25 said: Is it his liver? OOOooooops with a nice chianti and some fava beans.... 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctid Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: See it does and it doesn't. Morgan Frost will be in the AHL and eyeballing Mr. Patrick's seat and trust me he has already said he wants to do everything he can to make the NHL....so yes this doesn't relieve pressure on Nolan just applies a different set of pressure...Morgan is coming for his spot so he better make the most of this year....i can see Frost making the team by 2020-21....Patrick might be heading to Seattle if he doesn't get it together.... I think they will train frost to play wing, much like they did with Gagne. I don't believe they will give up on patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, ctid said: I think they will train frost to play wing, much like they did with Gagne. I don't believe they will give up on patrick But where?? You have Rubtsov, Ratcliffe, Farabee all LWs....TK and Jake, NAK, Allison at RW...i think Frost stays at center. But time will certainly tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctid Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But where?? You have Rubtsov, Ratcliffe, Farabee all LWs....TK and Jake, NAK, Allison at RW...i think Frost stays at center. But time will certainly tell. Rubtsov for me is a big question mark and I believe he is a center but can play wing. Hope Allison signs, really like his game and TK is untouchable imo. But voracek needs to go when frost becomes ready. Hope to see future top 9 wingers to be Frost, farabee, ratcliffe, lindblom, konecny, Allison... Obviously give them time and don't Patrick them.... That's why we still need giroux, jvr, Jake.... But with time Jake and jvr needs to go and then giroux when he slows down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) On 6/19/2019 at 12:00 AM, OccamsRazor said: Well at least you got Karlsson... ...because i'm afraid you guys won't be back to the finals again while he is on the team...i think the window has closed on the Sharks. That comment always perplexes me these days. People have been saying the window is closed for the sharks since Thornton and Marleau hit age 33 over 7 years ago. Now one of them plays 4th line Center and the other is in Toronto and people are still acting like they are the team we are built around. We have a team of young fast stars who are below the age of 25. Some middle aged guys 29-34 like Couture, Pavelski, Vlasic and Burns. But the bulk of our scoring is coming from guys age 27 or younger(our 30+ goal scorers are age 34, 27, 25 and 22) and Burns just had a career year scoring over a PPG and is showing no signs of slowing down. Let's see what signings and moves and keeps Wilson makes in the offseason shall we? Karlsson could barely walk in the playoffs and we got to the conference finals by virtue of Burns, Couture, Hertl and Meier playing superstar level and none of them except Burns are over the age of 30 Edited June 20, 2019 by J0e Th0rnton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said: Let's see what signings and moves and keeps Wilson makes in the offseason shall we? But you still have Martin Jones. Enough said for me. #keephopealive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: But you still have Martin Jones. Enough said for me. #keephopealive oh yeah he had a terrible year. Its amazing we got as far as we did to within a game of the finals with historically bad goaltending. But this is one bad year after 3 solid ones for him. Until he has a year that bad 2 years in a row, i won't worry. He's still light years better than Niemi was even at his worst. if he plays even a fraction better like his 1st two year, we were in the finals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, J0e Th0rnton said: oh yeah he had a terrible year. Its amazing we got as far as we did to within a game of the finals with historically bad goaltending. But this is one bad year after 3 solid ones for him. Until he has a year that bad 2 years in a row, i won't worry. He's still light years better than Niemi was even at his worst. if he plays even a fraction better like his 1st two year, we were in the finals Sorry I mean no offense but he just reminds me too much of Rinne puts up good numbers but when you need him most he can't steal one. Just like as good as Rask played this past playoffs he let his team down I think in the finals he just didn't play up to the level we saw the previous 3 weeks. It happens. Hey happy to be wrong. It's up to him to prove me wrong about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: Sorry I mean no offense but he just reminds me too much of Rinne puts up good numbers but when you need him most he can't steal one. Just like as good as Rask played this past playoffs he let his team down I think in the finals he just didn't play up to the level we saw the previous 3 weeks. It happens. Hey happy to be wrong. It's up to him to prove me wrong about him. Jones was more the type to have lackluster regular seasons and turn it on in the playoffs until this year. The only reason we made it to game 6 of the finals back vs the Pens and was a wall the other 2 years in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) The Cup is theirs... #skyisfalling JVR can't let Braun out do him... Edited August 4, 2019 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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