Game 32: Devils at Flyers; 3/23/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, Samifan said:

one of the Flyers beat writers tweeted Fletch is supposed to meet the media tomorrow. Can’t wait to hear him shovel

I'll have a shot of Maker's Mark, every time he says "We're a young team, and these things take time...we ask our fans to have patience with our growth process"....or something akin to this statement.  Management (including Fletcher) has sat on it's collective asses for two years +. It's time to make a damned move. A fairly significant one...not a band aid.

[radoran]

I went to check in on tonight's game around 8.

 

My wife saw the effort and said "so, 3-0 Devils?" before the stream loaded.

 

I switched to Chopped.

 

Then checked my FHL team later and Provorov has a PPP and the team is losing 4-1.

 

I'm honest to God finding it hard to give a rat's ass about this organization - and I use the term loosely.

 

It's not all his fault #notallhisfault but I'm sick and tired of watching this "leadership."

 

In other news, earlier today Meltzer quoted Braun in the "definitely a playoff team" realm again.

 

I mean, they're arguably "closer" than the Sharks?

[mkscrewy]

By hook or by f'ing crook we have to get rid of this Gustoffsen ASAMFP.

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

By hook or by f'ing crook we have to get rid of this Gustoffsen ASAMFP.

No truer words, were ever spoken.

 

[mkscrewy]

i predicted we would score a meaningless goal late in the period so it would look close in the box score. sadly i was right, and even more depressing is that management, whom I'm not convinced watch the games, will believe we only lost "by a goal."

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, mkscrewy said:

i predicted we would score a meaningless goal late in the period so it would look close in the box score. sadly i was right, and even more depressing is that management, whom I'm not convinced watch the games, will believe we only lost "by a goal."

They probably don't...their too busy living in their own reality, and planning alumni gatherings.

[RonJeremy]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

No truer words, were ever spoken.

 

As bad a Gus and Ghost are defensively, especially Gus, why haven’t we tried Derek Pouliot . I remember him with Pittsburgh and he was a first round pick. Can he really be worse than Gus? I haven’t seen him play since his days with the Pens, anyone have intel on him? Is it humanly possible to be worse than Gus defensively?

[mkscrewy]

6 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

 Can he really be worse than Gus?

I'm afraid we may be rhetorically asking ourselves this question about multiple players, both in the system and hypothetical acquisitions, for the rest of the season.

[Fizz]

Right from the start I cursed the hiring of Fletcher and the subsequent hiring of AV.

Just an observation but do you guys notice how soon the forwards flee their own zone? Sometimes even before the

d-men even have the puck.

There is so much wrong with this team right now, I'm speachless.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Fizz

[FD19372]

39 minutes ago, Fizz said:

Right from the start I cursed the hiring of Fletcher and the subsequent hiring of AV.

When do we start blaming the players? I am.

[Howie58]

I decided to take a walk after the second.  It was better for my for my health. 

 

It is time to sell. 

 

[Fizz]

26 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

When do we start blaming the players? I am.

I agree the players are underachieving. But I also think a lot of it is because of the system AV is asking them to play.

His system works well with a veteran group of players and an all star goalie, none of witch are currently on this Flyer team.

Yes 100% the players have to shoulder part of the blame. But again it is up to the HC to put the players he has into a system that gets the most out of then. These players all made it to the NHL they just didn't forget how to play once they got here. But man they looked like pee wee's running around and falling down out there tonight.

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, Fizz said:

His system works well with a veteran group of players and an all star goalie, none of witch are currently on this Flyer team.

Im not sure what you mean by "veteran". This is a youngish team, but it isn't a bunch of rookies

 

G, jake, hayes, jvr, coots, laughton, raffl, all 7+ seasons. Lindblom (injuries)is in his 4th. Tk has 5 (all star). Patrick is in his 3rd full season.

 

On D theres Braun, gus, ghost, provy, and hagg.

 

Only Farabee and NAK are regulars in their first full season, but both played a lot last season.

 

You may be right that Hart isnt an all star,  but we all thought he would be. And yes, Elliott isnt, but he's definitely a vet, and a viable #2

 

I just dont see the logic to this argument. All your points seem to illustrate what we all see, you just frame as the coaches fault,  and not the guys who aren't executing

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, Fizz said:

These players all made it to the NHL they just didn't forget how to play once they got here

To this point, AV has accomplished more as a coach than most of these players have as, players. He wins everywhere he goes, except here so far. He hasnt forgot how to coach. 

 

Many of these guys have been around long enough that they may not have forgotten how to play, they just cant do it at the same level

 

 

[pilldoc]

If I have said once I have said it a thousand times.....

 

Simply put there is NO accountability with this group of players. It starts with the core players and they have shown ZERO leadership/accountability. 
 

Matter of fact this team hasn’t had anybody holding anyone accountable since a certain puck to a face doomed Chris Pronger. That is 10 plus years ago.

 

Even a tiny row boat will get you from Point A to Point B in calm waters. However without a true guiding captain that boat will be tossed around when the waters become choppy and rough and will eventually sink.

 

To put it this way, this team will do fine when all is smooth and calm but will go under quickly when faced with a bit of adversity.  That is due to a lack of a strong locker room leadership personality and player issues,  NOT a coaching issue.

Edited March 24, 2021 by pilldoc

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, Fizz said:

I agree the players are underachieving. But I also think a lot of it is because of the system AV is asking them to play.

His system works well with a veteran group of players and an all star goalie, none of witch are currently on this Flyer team.

Yes 100% the players have to shoulder part of the blame. But again it is up to the HC to put the players he has into a system that gets the most out of then. These players all made it to the NHL they just didn't forget how to play once they got here. But man they looked like pee wee's running around and falling down out there tonight.

This isn't system or coach putting players in bad positions.

They can't pass. They can't make competent decisions. They don't hit the net on their shots. The don't cover their guy. They don't cover ANY guy.  They don't hit. They don't skate.

 

Now AV doesn't put them in the right position. Hakstol didn't put them in the right position. Berube didn't yet won a Cup on the very next attempt. Stevens. Lavvy. Etc etc.

 

Do you have any idea how utterly ridiculous your position is?  It's comical the contortions people go through to ignore reality 

 

Someone does need to put Giroux and Voracek in the right place, and that's Fletcher.

 

And he needs to put their asses on the next flight out of Philly. That's the "right position" for them.  Philly isn't the right spot.

 

Cut out the cancer and move on.

 

Over 10 years later and the body and brain has been rebuilt in totality several times, the diagnosis is simple and obvious:  it's the heart.

 

This is a million percent the players, specifically the leadership or lack of it.

Edited March 24, 2021 by ruxpin

[tucson83]

44 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

This isn't system or coach putting players in bad positions.

They can't pass. They can't make competent decisions. They don't hit the net on their shots. The don't cover their guy. They don't cover ANY guy.  They don't hit. They don't skate.

 

Now AV doesn't put them in the right position. Hakstol didn't put them in the right position. Berube didn't yet won a Cup on the very next attempt. Stevens. Lavvy. Etc etc.

 

Do you have any idea how utterly ridiculous your position is?  It's comical the contortions people go through to ignore reality 

 

Someone does need to put Giroux and Voracek in the right place, and that's Fletcher.

 

And he needs to put their asses on the next flight out of Philly. That's the "right position" for them.  Philly isn't the right spot.

 

Cut out the cancer and move on.

 

Over 10 years later and the body and brain has been rebuilt in totality several times, the diagnosis is simple and obvious:  it's the heart.

 

This is a million percent the players, specifically the leadership or lack of it.

 

 

yup when your leaders dont step up, bad things will happen, that's like saying you can win basketball games if embiid and simmons dont score any points like heck no. if crosby and ovi were on this team, it will be different story because you know those guys are going to step up for you every game, like who on this team is going to step up for you every game? that's the big issue here.

Edited March 24, 2021 by tucson83

[ruxpin]

30 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

 

yup when your leaders dont step up, bad things will happen, that's like saying you can win basketball games if embiid and simmons dont score any points like heck no. if crosby and ovi were on this team, it will be different story because you know those guys are going to step up for you every game, like who on this team is going to step up for you every game? that's the big issue here.

 

Right.  It's down to leadership, and that has to come from the players.

Look, I'm not trying to come on here saying Giroux isn't a good player.   He's a very good player.  It's not his fault some asshat made him captain.   But he's simply not a leader.  To your point about Ovechkin or Crosby--and we could add other clear examples--it's not about skill level, although I do think there's a difference there, too.  It's about drive and it's about leadership.

 

And you can't just bring someone else in to lead when Giroux is the captain.   We tried that with Pronger and Richards.  Richards was very successful in his time in LA because he was NOT captain and had other leaders in the room.   He could go about his thing and do it quite well.    Pronger/Richards, while we did fairly well, was constant friction.

 

So, if you brought in some type-A guy or two but Giroux remained captain, you'd end up with a divided, conflicted room and it would not work.    

 

And it clearly does not work without that because we do NOT have that guy in the room OR the guy in the room is being neutered because some tart in a lake gave Giroux a sword.   Ultimately, Giroux has to go.  It's just simply time to move on there.   And his Dumb & Dumber sidekick, Voracek, can ride off with him.  Do one last Velma & Louise, but MOVE ON.

[pilldoc]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Right.  It's down to leadership, and that has to come from the players.

Look, I'm not trying to come on here saying Giroux isn't a good player.   He's a very good player.  It's not his fault some asshat made him captain.   But he's simply not a leader.  To your point about Ovechkin or Crosby--and we could add other clear examples--it's not about skill level, although I do think there's a difference there, too.  It's about drive and it's about leadership.

 

And you can't just bring someone else in to lead when Giroux is the captain.   We tried that with Pronger and Richards.  Richards was very successful in his time in LA because he was NOT captain and had other leaders in the room.   He could go about his thing and do it quite well.    Pronger/Richards, while we did fairly well, was constant friction.

 

So, if you brought in some type-A guy or two but Giroux remained captain, you'd end up with a divided, conflicted room and it would not work.    

 

And it clearly does not work without that because we do NOT have that guy in the room OR the guy in the room is being neutered because some tart in a lake gave Giroux a sword.   Ultimately, Giroux has to go.  It's just simply time to move on there.   And his Dumb & Dumber sidekick, Voracek, can ride off with him.  Do one last Velma & Louise, but MOVE ON.

 

Spot on!  Really this sums up my entire view about Giroux.  I don't hate him ..... like you said he is a good player, but in this business the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup.  It is clear there is leadership instability on this team.  IMO Giroux NEVER should have been wearing the "C" at such a young point in his career, especially considering, too my knowledge, if he was never a Captain on his Junior team at Gatineau.

This team needs an identity and it starts with leadership ..... Therefore Giroux must move on and a new leader brought in as @ruxpin mentioned above.

[radoran]

6 hours ago, CoachX said:

He wins everywhere he goes, except here so far.

 

To be fair, they actually did win a playoff series under AV - something that hadn't happened under previous coaches.

[radoran]

11 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

IMO Giroux NEVER should have been wearing the "C" at such a young point in his career, especially considering, too my knowledge, if he was never a Captain on his Junior team at Gatineau.

 

He had never been a captain at any level before the NHL.

 

Much like as a "natural center" (thank you, Mr. Clement, for your "analysis") he had never played the position before the NHL, either.

 

We are all still living out the repercussions of Holmgren's disastrous "stewardship" of this organization - and I use the term loosely.

 

They have spent 10 years trying to prove that Holmgren actually made good moves.

 

And they have one playoff round win to show for it.

 

Bully for them.

[pilldoc]

23 minutes ago, radoran said:

He had never been a captain at any level before the NHL.

 

Much like as a "natural center" (thank you, Mr. Clement, for your "analysis") he had never played the position before the NHL, either.

 

Point #1 ....exactly.  IMHO ... Leadership is earned and not just thrust upon someone.

Point #2 .... what is with this organization always trying to play players in different positions ???  Not the first time we have seen this ......

[radoran]

Just now, pilldoc said:

Point #2 .... what is with this organization always trying to play players in different positions ???  Not the first time we have seen this ......

 

They're the smartest people in the room.

 

Just ask them, they'll tell you.

[pilldoc]

18 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

They're the smartest people in the room.

 

Just ask them, they'll tell you.

 

[flyer4ever]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

This isn't system or coach putting players in bad positions.

They can't pass. They can't make competent decisions. They don't hit the net on their shots. The don't cover their guy. They don't cover ANY guy.  They don't hit. They don't skate.

 

Now AV doesn't put them in the right position. Hakstol didn't put them in the right position. Berube didn't yet won a Cup on the very next attempt. Stevens. Lavvy. Etc etc.

 

Do you have any idea how utterly ridiculous your position is?  It's comical the contortions people go through to ignore reality 

 

Someone does need to put Giroux and Voracek in the right place, and that's Fletcher.

 

And he needs to put their asses on the next flight out of Philly. That's the "right position" for them.  Philly isn't the right spot.

 

Cut out the cancer and move on.

 

Over 10 years later and the body and brain has been rebuilt in totality several times, the diagnosis is simple and obvious:  it's the heart.

 

This is a million percent the players, specifically the leadership or lack of it.

Right on the money. 1000% agree with you. 93 & 28 should have been moved 3 years ago when they had value. They are coach killers.