LA interested in Konecney

[OccamsRazor]

33 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Pinning your hopes and playoff dreams on Coots and Ellis is laughable. 

 

I agree with everything but this.

 

Those guys are Shepard who will guide the flock.

 

That is why they will hold onto those guys.

 

If not who is going to show the kids how they are to conduct themselves?

 

JVR? Hayes? Someone has to be the vets to show the kids how to be pros.

 

If not Coots and Ellis who else do you think can do this?

 

You can't load the roster with 22 and 24 year old and expect them to figure it out.

 

Just look at all the vets the Avs had when McKinnon came in like Tanguay, Cody McCleod and Talvot to name a few.

 

You always need good strong vets you believe in who embody what the front office expects.

 

Just my 2 cents on it.

 

Coots and Ellis are the guys I want in place to do this.

 

Unless someone comes in and blows me away with an offer of course I keep em.

[RonJeremy]

On 2/25/2022 at 4:57 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

This is what i said the other day they forcing Robin to play Batman and well it isn't the same.

In our case it's Alfred playing Batman

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

So must be a lot swirling about TK.

 

Can't see why they would be wanting to move him right now with all the turds on the roster he is the one I'm least likely to want to trade unless I'm blown away.

 

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-kings-benefit-konecny-trade/

 

 

If TK is going to LA it better not be for spare parts like some of the roster players mentioned in that article. Brandt Clarke would make me listen...but then Philly would just destroy his potential anyway. Of course Konecny for Dustin Brown would be what would end up happening.

[flyer4ever]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I agree with everything but this.

 

Those guys are Shepard who will guide the flock.

 

That is why they will hold onto those guys.

 

If not who is going to show the kids how they are to conduct themselves?

 

JVR? Hayes? Someone has to be the vets to show the kids how to be pros.

 

If not Coots and Ellis who else do you think can do this?

 

You can't load the roster with 22 and 24 year old and expect them to figure it out.

 

Just look at all the vets the Avs had when McKinnon came in like Tanguay, Cody McCleod and Talvot to name a few.

 

You always need good strong vets you believe in who embody what the front office expects.

 

Just my 2 cents on it.

 

Coots and Ellis are the guys I want in place to do this.

 

Unless someone comes in and blows me away with an offer of course I keep em.

I dont disagree you need a veteran presence to guide the kids. IMHO,  Coots and Ellis aren't those guys. They are on the downside of their careers and will more than likely struggle to stay healthy.  There are young guys who are natural leaders, though we don't know their off ice habits. Jonathon Toews was one of those guys, I think Alex Newhook may be another. Our very own B Clarke was one too, as was Mike Richards.

This deadline and the next 2 drafts is a great opportunity for the Flyers to build a great nucleus of young players. I have a hard time getting excited about it  though I would like to be.

None of this conjecture matters much, Chuckles is probably going to be guided down the same old path of bringing more bad contract 30 yr olds to creep back to mediocre. 

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

I dont disagree you need a veteran presence to guide the kids. IMHO,  Coots and Ellis aren't those guys. They are on the downside of their careers and will more than likely struggle to stay healthy.  There are young guys who are natural leaders, though we don't know their off ice habits. Jonathon Toews was one of those guys, I think Alex Newhook may be another. Our very own B Clarke was one too, as was Mike Richards.

This deadline and the next 2 drafts is a great opportunity for the Flyers to build a great nucleus of young players. I have a hard time getting excited about it  though I would like to be.

None of this conjecture matters much, Chuckles is probably going to be guided down the same old path of bringing more bad contract 30 yr olds to creep back to mediocre. 

 

Well I just don't know how you would rid yourself of those two contracts and acquire the guys who would needed to guide them then without getting bent over that is.

[flyer4ever]

54 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well I just don't know how you would rid yourself of those two contracts and acquire the guys who would needed to guide them then without getting bent over that is.

Nobody wants to get bent over. However, every cup winner since Bett turds salary cap has had a bent over season or 3. The GMs around the league (except the Flyers) are too savvy. Multiple lottery picks is really the only way .

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Nobody wants to get bent over. However, every cup winner since Bett turds salary cap has had a bent over season or 3. The GMs around the league (except the Flyers) are too savvy. Multiple lottery picks is really the only way .

 

I just don't trust any of the clowns in the front office which ever is the dumbest move they will make it...

[SCFlyguy]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

If not Coots and Ellis who else do you think can do this?

Lol, Coots and Ellis can’t do this either!

 

They will both be retired by the time this team is any good.

 

My view is 5 years if you started now.  The Flyers won’t start now.

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Lol, Coots and Ellis can’t do this either!

 

They will both be retired by the time this team is any good.

 

My view is 5 years if you started now.  The Flyers won’t start now.

 

Well good luck getting rid of those contracts if you start now you may find a taker by the time they are in their last years.

[SCFlyguy]

Tell that to the idiots that signed them/traded for them.  I wanted neither of them.

[mojo1917]

17 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

Nobody wants to get bent over. However, every cup winner since Bett turds salary cap has had a bent over season or 3. The GMs around the league (except the Flyers) are too savvy. Multiple lottery picks is really the only way .

I sort of agree.

In nearly all the successful cases, the bottoming out- didn't include trading everyone that knows how to play and is kind of good at hockey.

 

You are right though about this- This would be the year to use the UFAs to get some picks, use the Giroux trade to get some NHL ready prospects, draft well (the pick should be top 5) and if possible dump a contract, pay half of JvR's salary for a year....No trading for 30+ year olds with term either. 

 

This season is lost, so don't throw good money after bad- use this season as an opportunity to get some new NHL skill players.

Let those players develop, keep some of the character veterans around. I do think Couturier and Ellis are good players, Laughton is a high character guy, Hayes is slow but he makes the work fun and that is important too. 

So in that vein, I don't think trading Konecny is a good idea.

I'd rather see him move into a leadership role on this team, I think in his case it will elevate his game. He's not indispensable but he's not chopped liver either.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by mojo1917

[GratefulFlyers]

 

On 3/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, mojo1917 said:

This would be the year to use the UFAs to get some picks, use the Giroux trade to get some NHL ready prospects, draft well (the pick should be top 5) and if possible dump a contract, pay half of JvR's salary for a year....No trading for 30+ year olds with term either. 

On 2/28/2022 at 4:10 PM, flyercanuck said:

Of course Konecny for Dustin Brown would be what would end up happening.

 

2 quotes that kind of sum up where I'm at with the Flyers now. That trade is not all that farfetched I'm sorry to say.

 

It's such a shame. The Flyers have a great opportunity to make-over the roster this year but from that Scott/Fletcher presser I get the feeling they're not even looking to make-over the roster. 

 

It seems to me they feel that if Ellis, Hayes and Couturier come back - all is well.

edit: and if they can get Ristolainen signed for the next 6 years.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by GratefulFlyers

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

That trade is not all that farfetched I'm sorry to say.

 

Yeah it is very hard to not expect Chuck to do something stupid but i guess we can hold out hope he finally makes a good trade for the future...at least till he shows us he is not...

[radoran]

56 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

It seems to me they feel that if Ellis, Hayes and Couturier come back - all is well.

edit: and if they can get Ristolainen signed for the next 6 years.

 

And, of course, re-sign Giroux.

 

Many reports I'm seeing are indicating that we're likely to be underwhelmed by the return for Giroux and anyone expecting a bevvy of prospects and picks is likely to be disappointed.

 

Happy, of course, for them to be wrong.

[mojo1917]

24 minutes ago, radoran said:

Many reports I'm seeing are indicating that we're likely to be underwhelmed by the return for Giroux and anyone expecting a bevvy of prospects and picks is likely to be disappointed.

I've read similar opinions.

Recently however, I've seen that the ask is going to be greater than the Foligno to TOR deal. 

That was a first and a fourth, which if that's what comes back will be disappointing. 

If that were to become a 1st and 2nd or a near ready NHL + prospect and a 2nd I would say nice job.

Everyone is saying the NMC and UFA status make it difficult to truly gauge what the return could be. 

 

[radoran]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

If that were to become a 1st and 2nd or a near ready NHL + prospect and a 2nd I would say nice job.

 

I would as well.

 

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Everyone is saying the NMC and UFA status make it difficult to truly gauge what the return could be. 

 

Would not at all surprise me if the return was related to re-signing with the acquiring team, the team's progress in the playoffs, Giroux's production/playtime, re-signing with the Flyers, or a combination of any or all of them.

 

See: Timonen, Kimmo

[CoachX]

Here's where I have a problem trading a guy like T. K....

 

not too long ago, the Flyers had a really good prospect pool. I recall it being bragged about. What has that produced? Nothing of significant substance. I seem to recall, TK came out of that pool. So, you had a player who helped make up a deep prospect pool (TK),  who now isnt playing well enough to keep. So you want to trade him off, for another prospect(s)? And why would this/these prospects fare any better? If he sucks so bad now that he is worth getting rid of, there is no reason to believe the assets you get for him won't meet the same fate.

 

Now, if you traded him for an established player of substance, believing you helped the team, then "ok". But what are the odds on that happening?

[CoachX]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:16 PM, SCFlyguy said:

Lol, Coots and Ellis can’t do this either!

 

They will both be retired by the time this team is any good.

 

My view is 5 years if you started now.  The Flyers won’t start now.

Thank you. I will resume watching in five years. You have saved me alot of wasted time and anguish

[CoachX]

Someone clarify for me please, I just don't comprehend....

 

When does a player attain veteran status?

 

When does a player reach his peak?

 

when does a player reach the front edge of downhill on his career?

 

It seems to me that whatever the answers, they always seem to be the text book talking point answers. I personally think who the player is, and how he performs, is far more of a benchmark then his age. I realize there is no other player like him, but Ovechkin is 36. I would mortgage this entire franchise to get that guy, and build my team around him. I am saddened to hear to Coots is over the hill and too old. I kinda like that guy and think he is a helluva player. I hope he enjoys his retirement

Edited March 3, 2022 by CoachX

[OccamsRazor]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:16 PM, SCFlyguy said:

They will both be retired by the time this team is any good

 

This doesn’t matter so much as long as they have done what I said helped the kid mature and turned into really good pros to help lead them to a Cup.

 

I mean you said your self they are a few years away. 

 

You can just snap you fingers when you are ready and then acquire the vets you need when you ready without a cost.

 

So if they do this then it is worth it in my eyes.

[RonJeremy]

30 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Someone clarify for me please, I just don't comprehend....

 

When does a player attain veteran status?

 

When does a player reach his peak?

 

when does a player reach the front edge of downhill on his career?

 

It seems to me that whatever the answers, they always seem to be the text book talking point answers. I personally think who the player is, and how he performs, is far more of a benchmark then his age. I realize there is no other player like him, but Ovechkin is 36. I would mortgage this entire franchise to get that guy, and build my team around him. I am saddened to hear to Coots is over the hill and too old. I kinda like that guy and think he is a helluva player. I hope he enjoys his retirement

Guys like Jagr, Chelios and Ovechkin all played for a very long time and were still very productive. I know Jagr and Chelios had insane fitness routines that most people just couldn't endure. Not sure about Ovechkin maybe the vodka keeps him going. 

 

When it comes to players lasting a long time or not, of course there are many factors that come into play, fitness, genetics, injuries, mental desire ,etc. From what I have seen in alot of players take the first step down around 28-29 ,years old.  Usually at that age they sign their last big  contract for 6-7 years and by the time they hit 32-33 they are pretty much useless.

 

Time and time again ,you see an older player in his contract year for UFA  usually put up very big numbers and get a big new contract and he never reaches that level again. It's human nature, they don't have the hunger and they don't  want to pay the price with offseason training and everything that it takes to still play at a high level. Is it a coincidence Giroux is having a great season in his contract year.

[radoran]

46 minutes ago, CoachX said:

not too long ago, the Flyers had a really good prospect pool. I recall it being bragged about. What has that produced? Nothing of significant substance.

 

They did. And to an extent, still do.

 

What they don't have is any real gamebreaking talent. Konecny has grit, a nice shot, and has been a 20/50 forward. That's not nothing. Farabee along the same lines. Provorov, if he's "just a #2" is still a good result.

 

Allison is injured, but touted to compete for the roster next year along with that Radcliff guy. Foerster as well.

 

So, that's a "really good" pool - it's just lacking a "great" player.

 

54 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So, you had a player who helped make up a deep prospect pool (TK),  who now isnt playing well enough to keep. So you want to trade him off, for another prospect(s)? And why would this/these prospects fare any better? If he sucks so bad now that he is worth getting rid of, there is no reason to believe the assets you get for him won't meet the same fate.

 

Now, if you traded him for an established player of substance, believing you helped the team, then "ok". But what are the odds on that happening?

 

Jeff Petry is sitting right there

 

I think it is too early to give up on TK, but if he's a key to getting an actual established player of substance, I think they have to consider it...

 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Is it a coincidence Giroux is having a great season in his contract year.

 

39 points in 50 games, -11 is OK, but "great"?

 

He was rejuvenated by the move to his actual natural position and had the 1.24 ppg year in 17-18 (coming off .7 the year before). Then 1.03, .76, .79, and now .78.

 

Is someone paying him as the 1+ ppg player he was 4-5 years ago or the .7X player he is today?

 

My prediction is a 6Y, ~$6M contract with the Flyers to "end his career a Flyer". Under the new rules he can walk away without a cap penalty if the contract isn't front-loaded.

[OccamsRazor]

47 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

39 points in 50 games, -11 is OK, but "great"?

 

He was rejuvenated by the move to his actual natural position and had the 1.24 ppg year in 17-18 (coming off .7 the year before). Then 1.03, .76, .79, and now .78.

 

Is someone paying him as the 1+ ppg player he was 4-5 years ago or the .7X player he is today?

 

My prediction is a 6Y, ~$6M contract with the Flyers to "end his career a Flyer". Under the new rules he can walk away without a cap penalty if the contract isn't front-loaded.

 

I am cool if Giroux is still here as long as this is fullfilled.

 

Gone

Risto

JVR

Yandle

Brassard

Thompson

Jones

Seeler

 

I hope i ain't forgetting anyone within reason.

 

As i said i can see them not moving him because as they said he has the call.

 

So i think it all hinges on him playing his 1,000th game which is 7 games away.

 

How he fills that morning or for that much in the locker room afterwards if it is emotional like Simmer's then we know what is going to happen that night or even next morning.

 

But as had been said he has the last call.

 

All i know if i was home when i served and had a wife a baby and another on the way i know i would have had a very difficult time deploying like i did back in January of 1991 when i was home after bootcamp and A school and it turned from Desert shield to Desert Storm. Ugh.

 

Yeah i know combat and hockey are not the same thing but i guess i think about travel and trying hard to get back home.

 

Didn't even know it would be 13 months. But that is a long time.

 

I would have pursued every legal way i could to stay home with my family especially with unstable stuff going on around the world.

 

Nope i'll chase that cup here. I get it so i expect him to have cold feet even.

 

We'll see.

 

[pilldoc]

From Charlie O'Connor from The Athletic when asked about the idea of trading TK.  Take it FWIW ......

 

I certainly don’t think that Travis Konecny has to be traded. I also, however, don’t view him to be at the level of a “core piece.”

He did look like he was becoming one in 2019-20, when he was the Flyers’ top scorer and very much looked the part of a guy who could be somewhere in the realm of the second to fourth best player on a contending team — not quite superstar level but a very effective top-of-the-lineup offensive weapon.

 

Since then, of course, he has 19 goals in his last 100 regular season games, after going goal-less in 16 bubble playoff games. His underlying even strength metrics have returned to break-even, “fine” levels as well after his monster 2019-20 campaign when he graded out as one of the better play-driving wingers in hockey. That’s not a useless player — for the past two seasons, Konecny has been a perfectly viable 50-point-a-year forward who provides extra value as an agitator. But it’s not the resume of a player that a team builds around or makes untouchable. To me, he now looks like he’s ideally in the fifth to seventh best forward range on a stacked Stanley Cup contender — a good second-liner or an incredible third-liner.

 

That said, the idea of trading Konecny for future assets seems ridiculous, especially if Flyers GM Chuck Fletcher has designs on trying to turn this team around quickly. Konecny is the type of player that every playoff team wants — a high-energy sparkplug with real offensive skill who gets under the skin of the opposition. If you’re going to trade Konecny, it better be in a package for an impact defenseman or a star-level forward. Otherwise, I’d probably just keep him. It’s not like his contract is a bad one, and I do expect his goal scoring pace will improve eventually, as he’s not going to keep shooting 6.1 percent despite a career rate of 11.8 percent forever.